Evenin' PvP Enthusiasts

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Hi Zar, thanks for this thread.
This is just another please from the hunter community to take a look at our state in PVP.
1. Pet bar disappearing
2. Pet tracking can be extremely detrimental
3. Disparaging self heals vs. other classes
4. Lack of defensive cooldowns
5. Only one combo of viable cc which essentially requires the use of 2 cc's
6. Traps are extremely clunky and resistible (ie our cc can be resisted)
7. Agility no longer increases dodge
8. Our 1 cc is interrupted by our own dots
9. We have no dot scrub ability
10. Focus regain is contingent on steady/cobra, which can be slowed. No other class has this handicap
11. Counter attack is useless
12. Widows venom is useless
13. Resistance is futile is pointless in the MM tree
14. Pathing is a useless talent

These are just a few off the top of my head. Take a gander over in the Hunter forum. Many others have outlined these issues much more eloquently.

Our extremely low representation in the high end arena is a significant tell regarding the state of hunters in the arena.

Thanks in advance
I haven't seen anyone bring it up yet (likely because it isn't played in pvp by many players) but are there any plans to make moonkins more successful in arena? We seem to be fine in rated bg's, but in arena we just aren't a very viable spec to run with. If I had to be more specific, their damage output seems fine, except that you have to spend a lot of time casting, and you lack good defensive cd's in the face of real burst / melee.

I feel like I'm made of paper in moonkin form even with barkskin up, and this kind of bothers me (includes full resilience). It'd be one thing if we were a mage with plenty of tools to get melee off of you, but we simply aren't. Hardcasting a cyclone on a melee that is riding you isn't easy, you have to successfuly fakecast, which eats time and its effectiveness is completely dependent on the skill of your opponent, and our other tool (natures grasp) is often chain dispelled when the person in question you are trying to kite gets afflicted by it.

Typhoon may have a short cooldown, but the distance it knocks back is very poor in comparison to an ele shaman's thunderstorm (and the speed at which it knocks them back / registers the knockback, to boot). These are just some of my concerns with moonkins, hopefully others can throw some more constructive feedback up, be it criticizing my post, or adding to it; anything is welcome.
First of all, thank you for taking your time to observe our opinions on things. Three things that i would like for you as developers to look at are:

1) Speaking for all classes but since i have the most experience on my hunter out of all my toons, we are simply undertuned in battles bigger than 2v2-3v3. Please fix this, Class Balance in the PVP world should be a #1 priority in my book.

2)Bring back Classic AV! I truly do not wish it to remain in the random BG finder if it is not returned to its Vanilla state. Also, IoC and SotA should also be revamped/taken out of the random BG finder so i am not pained to que for these BG's less i get them instead of my beloved WSG/TP and AB/BFG.

3)Finally, Please at least consider the world pvp ideas about the city of gilneas, check out the thread and give us very specific detailed answers why it WONT work, if it will not work. I see it as a very feasible task if you take the time to do it, it would appease many-a-PVP'er around the world.

Thank you for reading this and I hope you attempt to fulfill these requests.

EDIT: Also check out the hunter's post above me. Sums up the bugs and issues i have with the hunter class.
Lowbie pvp is still borked.


We talked to Ghostcrawler about this yesterday. He's well aware of this, but more importantly, he's not very happy about it either. The class design team's first priority is obviously balance around the end game, but absolute neglect of low-level balance isn't okay. This is something that isn't going to improve much in patch 4.3, but we hope to have more sound solutions coming.

I actually like that low level pvp is crazy; Agreed that it isn't fair, but a large part of that is BOA gear imo. One of my favorite ways to pass the time is gear up in full boa, buy low level greens, enchant everything and go be op until I'm too high level.

As for Spriests I didn't know about that comp, However I will say that we simply do not have the survivability of many other classes, even with 15% reduced dmg from all sources the amount of burst that most classes are capable of 1min into a fight is staggering. (So dispersion, while wonderful, doesn't help.) I understand that class balance comes into play, but if, in full pvp gear, with an activity of .84 or higher, and full knowledge of both classes; I as a Spriest CANNOT (literally unable to) defeat a likewise warrior in any situation; something is wrong. I'm not saying we need buffed, or they need nerfed. I would just like it if someone were to look at the situation that I deal with every week.

Also thanks for this Zarhym :D
change druid 4piece set bonus to allow lifebloom to be kept up onto two players. This does not affect pve in any way and would definitely work towards fixing the state of resto druids
I get the idea of wargames and skirmishes, but any chance at all of letting us all be able to queue cross realm again for arenas at all levels?
This is actually really cool, thank you for taking the time to do this Zar :)
My couple of questions

1. I've been hearing that the new gear swapping feature won't work for pvp gear. That isn't true, right? :)
2. Death knights are in a pretty bad place against melee right now. We get rolled in a couple seconds even with 4.2k resil and up. I think the nerf to death strike was a bit overboard, are there any plans to add some survivability? I'd gladly trade off some of our burst.
3. Healers are going to continue getting stronger in PvP only because they scale better in gear than DPS do. Will anything be done to stop them from being gods of the arena in coming seasons?
4. I miss corpse explosion. That isn't a question, just letting you know it was my favorite ability ever and I miss it :(
5. Any new developments with the possibility of a deathmatch battleground?
6. EDIT: Just remembered pets. I don't know about other classes, but the DK ghoul behaves about as intelligently as he looks. Any way we could see them work a little better around bridges and ledges, and maybe make them not take 10 different macros to make behave?

Thats all I can think of for now. Thanks :D
Glad you taught those dev's a lesson, I would like to know are the hunter PvP concerns being adressed or getting looked at for next patch?
08/18/2011 06:53 PMPosted by Zarhym
I don't want this thread to be dictated by class balance.

Appreciate the time.
Hi Zarhym 8D

I absolutely enjoy fire pvp, the mobility and CC potential is amazing, the only thing that seems a little lackluster is sustained damage and even burst at times.

Fire relies on scorch and living bomb mostly for the sustained damage yet living bomb is constantly dispelled with no consequences for the healer, it's not even a question of should I dispel or not. Perhaps a little bit of dispel protection for fire would be nice, even something small would be like a moral victory for those of us who play the spec we enjoy in PvP.

The most annoying thing is when combustion is dispelled the second it's applied, granted there are things we as mages can do it try and avoid that, but it means sort of "wasting" a counterspell on a blanket silence or very quickly impact stunning the dispeller or CCing them. Setting it up is rather difficult as well because its burst very much relies on a crit pyro, yet the ignite (or even the freeze effect to go for a "guaranteed" crit is often dispelled before put ot use!) is many times dispelled very quickly or even the living bomb before a combust can be applied. Once either of those things occur then the damage from combust is almost ignorable by the healer.

Overall I think fire PvP isn't in too bad of shape, but a couple of small changes could really make it into a more widely considered spec to PvP and many mages won't view frost as the PvP spec, thanks!
fix blink in wsg, thanks : )
What about the basic lack of viability of any Rogue spec except Subtlety in a PVP situation? Combat is plagued by low damage with high rampup and mediocre burst, Assassination has the mobility of a crippled turtle but higher damage, and Subtlety has mobility and utility, but poor damage outside of an Expose Weakness cycle. Is anything being done to address this, or are we just being greedy in flocking to the best spec and expecting more?
Don't know if this is too many questions to ask but here it goes;

1)Do you feel that damage and healing in pvp is too high? Or that there is too much CC in the game? With the general start in 3s being pop all cooldowns and kill some one in 5 seconds.

2)Do you have any plans to add a 2200 elite belt recolor and fix it so that belts and boots match classes sets? Warriors, Deathknights, Enhancement Shaman, Retribution Paladins all suffer from mismatched gear.

3)Do you plan to making any class balance changes before 4.3? As of right now in teams above 2600 shaman, warlocks, mages, and priests of 60% of the teams while hunters make up 2%.

4)Any plans to update AV and IoC to make them involve more pvp instead of avoiding the other team and try to win as fast as possible? There has been many suggestions to bring back vanilla style av.

5)Any plans to merge battlegroups for arenas? Queues have gotten long at high ratings and you often fight the same team over and over. Are you panning to add in a feature to prevent facing the same team over and over as well? I recall there used to be a 2 minute wait for facing the same team or something like that.

Thanks for your time.
08/18/2011 06:53 PMPosted by Zarhym
about that aff locks and shamans are the main classes doing well in high end and even low end pvp these classes have far to much synergy and because of this any class combined with them does well, do you have guys have any intention to fix this?

Based on my recent conversation with GC, he did mention in particular that a Resto shaman tweak needs to be made. In particular, he's prepared to get his nasty claws on Windshear.

He's gone for the day and I don't want to try and paraphrase our conversation, at the risk of sounding incredibly naive. ;p Besides, I don't want this thread to be dictated by class balance.

Just don't ruin it for Ele/Enhance like you did with the other baseline nerfs.
This may sound like a silly little question, but I've got to ask.

In my battlegrounds, I've noticed people in no gear getting more and more common. Now, I don't mean 'no gear' as in a new 85 - I mean no gear as in they literally only have one or two slots of gear, and buck naked otherwise. Some only have heirlooms on. All of them pretty much get one-shotted. I can only see this getting worse as people RaF up to 80, making the 80-84 bracket full of super under geared and/or naked alts.

Personally, I don't think there needs to be a feature to lock undergeared people out of BGs - how else would fresh 85s PvP gear up? No, I would just really like to know if it's possible to keep these people who are buck naked or in level thirty gear out of BGs.

It's one thing to try doing naked runs on your own, but when you're one person gimping nine or fourteen other people (naked people are really the biggest problem in small BGs) it begins to be not acceptable.

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