Retribution in the arena. LF replies

Arenas
"LOL", is probably the most common term said by teams that come across any 3v3 composition with a retribution paladin. When I say this I mean we are the easiest class to shutdown when bursting or going defensive(Warriors are basically the same when shutting down). The following classes can get rid of: Avenging Wrath, Hand of Freedom, Hand of Sacrifice, Hand of Protection, Holy Radiance, Divine Protection.

Class Ability Cast Time Cool down
Priests Dispel Instant None besides GCD
Mages Spell Steal Instant None besides GCD
Warlocks Devour Magic (Felhunter) Instant 15 seconds
Shamans Purge Instant None besides GCD
Hunters Tranquilizing Shot Instant None besides GCD
For Divine Shield
Priest Mass Dispel .4 seconds None besides GCD
Warrior Shattering throw 1.5 seconds Too long IMO

We only have two abilities that cant be messed with which is zealotry and guardian of ancient kings. The only two CC abilities we have are hammer of justice(5 sec stun) and repentance(6 second Incapacitate) which can be dispelled by all healers. Why are we the only class in the game that can be dispelled without penalties.(besides mages.. no comment necessary). Also we are the only class in the game than cannot reduce movement speed below 100%. (our seal of justice is only viable against a holy pally before he uses holy radiance). Basically without our offensive cooldowns our pressure output is pathetic. Our judgement and holy wrath hit less than a rogues recuperation tic. To do any constant pressure we have to keep inquisition up which takes 3 crusader strikes to generate 3 holy powers which takes 13.5 seconds assuming constant up time. After getting that up it takes another 3 crusader strikes to get a 15k-25k templars verdict off. The only thing that we actually offer are offheals. Word of glory(when specc'd right) is only good when the pressure is on a partner. The critical strikes are unstable ranging from 16k-140k avg is around 30k. With avenging wrath and a partner below 35% the average is 85k. Its basically the only thing we have to live against other classes. Flash of light with seal of insight is rarely viable. Now remember when a ret is offhealing his pressure is gimped we take a penalty for using word of glory because now we cant use templars verdict. Something needs to be changed, IMO the whole spec should be redone.

A few opinions;
Rogues are the tyrants of the melee and they need something done to them. Make shadow dance a two minute cool down. When played right, your the top melee class season after season. Preperation is over powered. Recuperation is the top healing ability out of all the melee classes. Sapping out of blind shouldnt be a full sap. 7 second blind, 6 second sap out of blind, then 3, then 1.5, then a 4 second cheap shot into a 6 second silence to a 5 point 3 second kidney. So assuming the healer already used his trinket a rogue could literally cc him for a total of 30.5 seconds i mean prolly up to 36 with a gouge here and there. Obviously they need some type of nerf, not on all things but just on 1 or 2

Ferals are the definition of op. Using 5 combo points shouldnt award them with an instant CC that cant be dispelled IMO should take 5 combo points to instant clone someone. And straight up bear form needs a nerf. Your the only class that has the top abilities of all your specs into one.
Boomkins need more survivability

Mages are so broken, one good shatter and anyone is basically screwed. Your deep freeze needs an increased cool down and your novas need DR. Cold Snap shouldnt reset all your cooldowns, ice block is understandable, deepfreeze + icyveins+ ring of frost, no get rid of 1-2 of those.

Death Knights dual wield or go unholy, L2 juke hungering cold and to also play defensive

Warriors need something, they are gimped as hell. they need damage increased or charge to be able to break out of roots. Also when they charge someone that person shouldnt be able to jump at the same time and get away. LF REVAMP OF FURY

Warlocks have to much pressure for the amount of casting required. they really only need to cast unstable affliction every so often get all their instant cost dots rolling and fearbomb the world and put out double the damage of any class.

Hpallies, rarely need to use an ability that includes a cast time. the anti melee healer. they have to much abilities that counter a melee its so unbalanced,

Priests- an aoe fear every 24 seconds is so stupid op its sad
The reason you can wings are dispellable are because ret palies have the best melee burst out of all classes in the game, i mean 50k crits over and over and over, lol
Shadow bite does not remove magic effects. Devour Magic does. That spell is on a 15 second CD.

All of the abilities you listed still have hefty costs if not CDs, and have no guarantee of getting the buff they want to get especially if you play with a disc priest to give you trash buffs.

Just some things to keep in mind.
I find it decent in rbgs so far (just started, normally do rateds on my rogue or mage), cds + 391 weapon makes fc's/healers explode. also can beat on players chasing our fc while giving them freedom/large wog heals/hand of sac or a loh if needed. using guardian/zealotry/wings/trinket can put a massive amount of pressure on healers at a contested node (assuming you dont get cc'ed).

arena, we are limited to melee cleaves essentially: we cant peel like other melee can. burst is ridiculous if you get a window to use your wings (cc'ed/stunned healer). sustained damage outside cd's is *ok*, censure buff has helped a bit but yeah. divine purpose procs are needed to put out a lot of pressure with cds down.

we need a snare, and we have to cc people who can purge/dispel wings before wings which is lame, but other than that it's ok, despite how utterly !@#$ed up pvp balance is atm


When i speak im not talking about the less than 2200 level. if you look at top 3s comps most of them have 2 classes that can get rid of wings out of the three. And going against higher rated rbg teams those wings wont last long
Shadow bite does not remove magic effects. Devour Magic does. That spell is on a 15 second CD.

All of the abilities you listed still have hefty costs if not CDs, and have no guarantee of getting the buff they want to get especially if you play with a disc priest to give you trash buffs.

Just some things to keep in mind.


dispelling goes in the order of the buff/cd casted. for instance if i use might, then hand of freedom, then wings, get a renew going. and a priest is dispelling it will get the renew, then the wings. Versus MLS i will pillar pop them throw hammer los and run out of 2nd lol. And btw we played you guys with 2 healers last night and got graveyard farmed :( lol
09/15/2011 03:19 AMPosted by Maikopl
The reason you can wings are dispellable are because ret palies have the best melee burst out of all classes in the game, i mean 50k crits over and over and over, lol
Their only real threatening damage comes from wings. Without it, they are kittens. Being able to spam dispell/spellsteal it leads to a rather feast/famine type situation, either they're doing metric crap tons of damage, or next to none. That's not really fun for either party involved.

I think there should be some sort of protection, maybe make wings give you two buffs, one that gives the damage buff and remains dispellable/spellstealable and a separate, undispellable one that still allows the use of hammer for the full regular duration.
09/15/2011 03:52 AMPosted by Delahaye
The reason you can wings are dispellable are because ret palies have the best melee burst out of all classes in the game, i mean 50k crits over and over and over, lol
Their only real threatening damage comes from wings. Without it, they are kittens. Being able to spam dispell/spellsteal it leads to a rather feast/famine type situation, either they're doing metric crap tons of damage, or next to none. That's not really fun for either party involved.

I think there should be some sort of protection, maybe make wings give you two buffs, one that gives the damage buff and remains dispellable/spellstealable and a separate, undispellable one that still allows the use of hammer for the full regular duration.


Something is needed I mean i play a rogue also and when i see a ret i go to town on him which forces bubble after trinket easily, and basically will vanish wings and win lol
09/15/2011 03:19 AMPosted by Maikopl
The reason you can wings are dispellable are because ret palies have the best melee burst out of all classes in the game, i mean 50k crits over and over and over, lol


And any ret would trade the burst in wings for undispellable wings and better damage without wings.

You should not be able to use HoW during wings outside of execute range.
Wings should not be dispellable.
Ret needs more damage outside of wings.

End of story.
09/15/2011 03:51 AMPosted by Dimmuborgiro
dispelling goes in the order of the buff/cd casted. for instance if i use might, then hand of freedom, then wings, get a renew going. and a priest is dispelling it will get the renew, then the wings.


No...
The problem with ret is basically the problem with half the classes right now: insane burst, terrible sustained damage. The problem isn't just rets, it's the entire pvp model currently.
09/15/2011 03:51 AMPosted by Dimmuborgiro
dispelling goes in the order of the buff/cd casted.


if you think this is the case then you could just with a resto druid and have him spam lifebloom on you as soon as you pop wings

1 lifebloom goes up 1 lifebloom goes down?

wait jk wings would go first cause its doesnt work like that anyhow...wings needs to be dispellable or make hammer of wrath a melee range attack (lets disregard howling blast for this sake of this arguement)
dispelling goes in the order of the buff/cd casted. for instance if i use might, then hand of freedom, then wings, get a renew going. and a priest is dispelling it will get the renew, then the wings. Versus MLS i will pillar pop them throw hammer los and run out of 2nd lol. And btw we played you guys with 2 healers last night and got graveyard farmed :( lol

That's not how it works. Like, really really not how it works >.>
How about making Hand of Salvation undispellable, able to be cast on yourself (and friendly targets) and provide a % of dispel resistance kinda like pain suppression?

Or maybe Resistance Aura?
09/15/2011 01:48 AMPosted by Dimmuborgiro
LOL

09/15/2011 01:48 AMPosted by Dimmuborgiro
ret

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