In regards to 4.3 Tier and Restrictions

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I don't know why people feel forced to run lfr for tier tokens because unless it's tuned for people who do 10k dps, healers that spam flash heal, and tanks that gem stam, you won't get very far.
I mean sure I'll try it, but I don't expect to get passed the trash before the group disbands because people are impatient.
09/19/2011 04:53 PMPosted by Ashva
No you are.


No I'm not, you're simply denying the facts. No one had to run 10's in Wrath if they chose not too, that doesn't mean people didn't feel like they had to in order to keep up with the game.

Blizzard acknowledged this themselves when the shared lockout system was introduced, this is a throwback.

You can throw out all the excuses you like, guilds that want to advance and gear in the quickest manner will have to do both just like they did in Wrath.
...That said, we'll be tweaking the tier 13 10-player drop rates a little bit (for the better) relative to the 25-player version, given that these tier pieces can't be purchased from vendors for Valor Points....


Im totally ok with upping the drop number for 10s due to them being generally screwed but what does the 25 man get in return for this? Wasnt there an original reason why they only get 1 compared to 3 in 25s?
09/19/2011 05:08 PMPosted by Goldish
Even the top guilds in the world have confirmed that the fights are harder in 25man, so there is no arguing that point.


Their metric was "It's easier on 10 when you know the fight and have more gear than any 10m guild would have access to even with a month's worth of kills."

That team they took in? Had almost full 391. A 10m wouldn't have access to that, assuming they had perfect drops, for at least a few more weeks.
Also, keep in mind that they aren't tweaking drop rates on the whole raid on 10m. Accordin to Zar, just tier tokens so 10m isn't getting bent over on token drops for an entire tier because your 2 on your Protector token get it the first 2 weeks and it keeps dropping for 2 months.
09/19/2011 05:13 PMPosted by Søurpatchkid
I don't know why people feel forced to run lfr for tier tokens because unless it's tuned for people who do 10k dps, healers that spam flash heal, and tanks that gem stam, you won't get very far.


This is exactly what the raid finder is balanced for, which is why Blizzard realized that the only way to make it work would be to make raiders use it as a stop gap measure for their tier.
09/19/2011 05:14 PMPosted by Taree
Wasnt there an original reason why they only get 1 compared to 3 in 25s?


Yes. It's hard to give someone half a loot drop. That was their original reason.
09/19/2011 05:17 PMPosted by Bomdanil
Wasnt there an original reason why they only get 1 compared to 3 in 25s?


Yes. It's hard to give someone half a loot drop. That was their original reason.


Pretty much. You can't do 2.5:1 drop rate on tier since I'm not sure programming half a token is even possible >.>

The problem is, the 1 on 10m is extremely restricted by RNG, Blizzard thinks this as well, and with tier ONLY coming from boss drops, it's a much needed change if you want 10m raiders to be able to realistically even get their 4pc bonuses.
09/19/2011 05:09 PMPosted by Rexzoolza
What is wrong with the current system and why the change to the new system?


The issue stems from the fact that no one able to raid currently would be using the LFR system if it went in with no incentives for them to run it. Assuming tier stayed on vendors, rather than bloating loot tables, even 10m guilds would swallow the slower progression rate just to avoid the headache that LFR is going to be for those that the system is designed for.

It feels like we only ever get Protector tokens. Ever. Our Hunter is fine with this since he's 5/5, but we keep throwing away tokens week after week.

It's beyond frustrating.


In the 25 man I run on my pally we're soon about to throw away the pally/priest/warlock heroic tier legs from H Shannox.

And how many times have you killed H Shannox?
09/19/2011 05:15 PMPosted by Bomdanil
I don't know why people feel forced to run lfr for tier tokens because unless it's tuned for people who do 10k dps, healers that spam flash heal, and tanks that gem stam, you won't get very far.


This is exactly what the raid finder is balanced for, which is why Blizzard realized that the only way to make it work would be to make raiders use it as a stop gap measure for their tier.


I just hope the bosses are tank and spanks that have as much hp as 10 mans cause if they don't then ho boy.
09/19/2011 05:20 PMPosted by Ashva
Why run something with strangers when you can clear much faster with guild?


Most raids are run in the 10m format. The LFR is made for 25's and 25's only, which is why I said that the issues aren't going to be felt by 25's to the degree that they are by 10's. 25's can run the LFR as a guild run and just mass clear it repeatedly and be done with it. No 10m groups will have that luxury.
In my 10 man raid we have:

2 dk tanks
1 dk dps (or druid dps)
2 druid heals
1 mage
1 rogue
---
7

That's rather depressing.
09/19/2011 04:13 PMPosted by Zarhym
The way tier 13 pieces will be obtained in the 4.3 raid won't be unlike raids past, meaning players will still need to roll on multi-class set tokens. That said, we'll be tweaking the tier 13 10-player drop rates a little bit (for the better) relative to the 25-player version, given that these tier pieces can't be purchased from vendors for Valor Points.


Given this, I'd assume the heroic tokens won't require you to have a lower-level version of the item to trade in, and will just be purchased with the token itself and nothing else, correct?
Oh hai Strawberry!
In my 10 man raid we have:

2 dk tanks
1 dk dps (or druid dps)
2 druid heals
1 mage
1 rogue
---
7

That's rather depressing.


Are you running T11 atm or do you just really hate the idea of progressing past Shannox/Rhyolith?
09/19/2011 05:25 PMPosted by Strawberry
Given this, I'd assume the heroic tokens won't require you to have a lower-level version of the item to trade in, and will just be purchased with the token itself and nothing else, correct?


Holy schnikeys, another Crusader :o

And she's a Gnome to boot.

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