Tanking Ragnaros

Druid
Not sure if it's a druid thing, but our first night on Ragnaros after the nerf resulted in both tanks getting taken down about 1/3 HP with every hit.
(Both tanks are druids, myself included - would post armory of the other if she logged out in her Feral set >->, but it's better then mine)

I ended up switching my trinkets to
Vial of Stolen Memories Moonwell Phial
So I could rotate cooldowns every time I was tanking and the extra stamina really felt like I wasn't going to get 3 hit, I even switched to a Steelskin flask.

Now our Holy Paladin http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/khazgoroth/retholyprot/simple
was talking to me after and blamed it on being a druid; and seriously asked me to go back to healing or balance and recruit a Paladin or a Warrior because they take less damage. He was struggling to heal me.

I admit, I have been thinking about it alot and considering it, but I want other peoples opinions as to if it's just a Druid thing or not.
The difference between bears and warriors/pallies is that the latter's mitigation scales off of incoming damage, whereas bear mitigation scales purely from gear, and rag hits hard so warriors and pallies do take less damage. But the difference is minor (equally geared bears take maybe 5% more damage), and can be made up for the fact that between tank swaps bears can go kitty and put up bleeds, easily pumping out an extra 3-5k dps over other tanks, as well as handling add phases better.
09/23/2011 10:33 PMPosted by Shayarle
How many stacks are you going to before taunting that pally should have no issue healing you at all.


We were doing 4.
In place of the spider silk spindle, Fluid death would be a better use since you would get the extra agi on top of reforging the hit out for more avoidance which would be an overall benefit in comparison, the bubble gained from dropping sub 35% isn't all that great when tanking rag.

If you need the extra stam/avoidance you should try the stam/dodge head/shoulder enchants as well as greater stam to chest.

As for the warriors/pallies taking less damage, I have yet to find one that can take less damage than me in any FL fight with the same tanking role.

What do the combat logs look like for your damage intake?
In place of the spider silk spindle, Fluid death would be a better use since you would get the extra agi on top of reforging the hit out for more avoidance which would be an overall benefit in comparison, the bubble gained from dropping sub 35% isn't all that great when tanking rag.

If you need the extra stam/avoidance you should try the stam/dodge head/shoulder enchants as well as greater stam to chest.

As for the warriors/pallies taking less damage, I have yet to find one that can take less damage than me in any FL fight with the same tanking role.

What do the combat logs look like for your damage intake?


Will get a combat log up on Monday if I figure out how to do it. *googles*
If we manage to kill it though, you might never hear from me again :-P
I bear tanked him np, and accually took less dmg then the pally tank in my grp, at that time i was Ilvl 368 and he's 372? maybe 373 got a few upgrades before doing Rag the other night, we switched at 3 stacks and everytime i would taunt i'd call on Vent switching, as well as pop my Barkskin or something else to lesson the dmg income, he hits like a truck even with the nerf so just gotta prep for it
Also never switch to stamina trinkets you put even more stress on the healers that way, Trinkets i used was Fluid of Death, and the Dodge trinket from the Brewfest, easy win ^.^
It could be your healers and not you. Is it only the paladin watching the tanks? If so, the rest of your healers are doing it wrong. The raid damage is fairly consistent and predictable. There is a lot of time that the raid isn't taking damage, and everyone should be on the tanks.
I can't comment on your gear because you're wearing resto gear or something.

But still, I don't understand how NM Rag could be hitting you that hard after the nerfs. Were you failling to keep Demo Roar up or something? Were you getting hit by waves? Standing in fire?

I think there's more to what's going on than what you are saying.
I have my meters up every pull in FireLands and i have to say, Druid tanks have to be the best tanks in the game Still! The main stat for any druid tank is dodge! dodge>mastery. But that doesnt mean mastery isnt a great stat, it it when you know how to proc your savage defense properly. "Agility agility agility" More dodge, more crit -> savage defense. This is a huge reason why pulverize is always kept up.

always keep up demoralizing roar, get your lac up and pop mangle and swipe when every you get the chance. savage defense will proc and when you taunt off and your first hit wasn't absorbed? it would most likely be dodged. Also after every taunt "or just before" use barkskin, your 4 piece brings in a great 10% dodge extra after it rolls off :). I take about 20%-25% less damage than my mastery capped warrior tank beside me!

You Just cant say no...to a good bear :)
I'd like to see the numbers ur holy paly is putting out before he blames the tanks, in his gear he shouldnt have any problem keeping up a tank that gets hit for 1/3 of thier health,

He already sounds like a gimp if he's going to blame an entire class of very competant tanks for your rag wipes.
This isnt always entirely true! and GREATLY depends on the fight! Druid tanks have no way to dodge any spell damage so every spell attack hits us! Dodge is absolutely USELESS in that sense. Having stam trinkets helps your heal pool on spell fights and takes the load off healers greatly. That said, a good druid tank always has multiple trinkets for different fights.

Gem agility for the crit "savage defense", stam/mastery trinkets and learn how to proc your savage defense accordingly on spell fights dont forget barkskin for the extra armor.

Gem agility and stack dodge and mastery on physical encounters. Keep up demoralizing roar, pulverize every 3 lac or when it falls off. barkskin on 4 piece is leet as it adds 10% more dodge.

Your pali Tank will shut his face when you start taking a lot less damage than he does :)
09/24/2011 03:31 AMPosted by Purrfect
Also never switch to stamina trinkets you put even more stress on the healers that way, Trinkets i used was Fluid of Death, and the Dodge trinket from the Brewfest, easy win ^.^


This is very incorrect. Dodge does nothing for the high amount of magic damage during the Ragnaros encounter. Stamina also makes your health bar look bigger. Whilst you take less damage going for avoidance, your small health pool gets trucked each time the boss actually hits you. Going from 90% to 20% in a single hit is pretty scary for your healer, so in this sense sometimes having a stamina cushion is nice. For this reason I use my Scales of Life on Ragnaros (heroic Vial from now on now that I have it xD).
We've been having the same problem since the 'nerfs'. The boss is just randomly trucking BOTH me and the warrior.

Keep in mind, however, I am talking about heroic.

I always will and have since I got, used vial and an agi trinket, with the exception of baleroc and chimaeron.
Because stamina is good, and so is agi. I aim for around 200k hp with raid buffs.

Also, when our guild taunted whenever our personal debuffs dropped, we had diminishing returns. Atleast this was when we tried.

We watch both.

When both conditions A and B are met, taunt.
A: The other tank has 3 stacks.
B: You have dropped stacks.
09/24/2011 03:06 PMPosted by Xernuid
This isnt always entirely true! and GREATLY depends on the fight! Druid tanks have no way to dodge any spell damage so every spell attack hits us


Umm...are you not specced into Perseverance? Pretty sure we're one of the best when it comes to spell damage fights b/c of this passive ability (granted it's not dodging). I tank this in 10man with a Prot Warrior and I took half the spell damage he did over the course of the fight (in heroic mode too). In fact I took less damage overall and I used APS and Matrix Restabilizer for trinkets /gasp.

Make sure both the tanks have the correct spec and are using their abilities properly. Also it shouldn't be just a holy paladin solo healing, if you are doing this in 10man then the second healer should be able to throw some heals occasionally.
We are 6/7 Heroic and working on Rag.

I run with an extremely geared Warrior tank.

I use the agility flask and agility trinkets. My health sits at around 188k. His health is around 208k. Almost all my gems are pure agility except for the two yellows I need. My armor unbuffed sits around 56k.

We are consistently getting to the second transition or close to it (a few times past it)

Every fight I do between 15-19k dps and he does b/w 10-13k dps. Every fight I take considerably less damage than him.

I try to use cooldowns for every trap break. They hit very hard even with barkskin, etc sometimes. I have to eat one trap break in order to have a barkskin and SI up for the seed explosions. I do not use the Tol Barad trinket but that is an option (for some reason my dps plummeted with it in, rage was a problem, and it felt like I took bigger spike damage.

We are shocked at the end of the raid when we look at the total damage taken. The druid takes significantly less at least for us.

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