Relative amount of materials needed

Professions
for contemporaneous items.

Why is it that some ilevel 378 boe items require 240 volatiles and 8, week-long, CDs? While others cost 40 volatiles and 3 chaos orbs-common drops from farm-able heroics. Oh, wait, that dreamcloth can be made using the same farm-able chaos orbs used in crafting leather and mail boots, with no CD.
You'll just need 37 more of them.
I keep thinking theres going to be some sort of change to dreamcloth CDs or the volatile/orb requirements to craft the cloth. Surely the people at Blizzard aren't this bad at math, and some of them must actually play WoW.
But, apparently......no?
I love playing WoW, but things like this are so simple to fix-or just not screw up-that there is really no excuse. Certainly not with the current unemployment rate and whatnot...I know for a fact there are some unemployed economists out there. I do not think that even they can do any worse anticipating unwarranted and exasperating variance in the cost of crafting different items of nearly identical utility.
You can make 5 Dreamcloth every week without touching any of your Chaos Orbs.
ill use averages from TuJ with a little rounding for simplification.

tailoring:
8 dreamcloth x 30 volatiles each = 240 x 23g(air) = 5520g
----------------------------------------240 x 20g(water) = 4800g
----------------------------------------240x 7g(earth) = 1680g
----------------------------------------240x 8g(fire) = 1920g
----------------------------------------240x 9g(life) = 2160g
averaged is 3216g per item

now theres advantages and disadvantages here. on the plus side if you are patient or had been stockpiling you could have been using only the cheaper methods and kept your costs way down. and on the downside(as clearly noted in this thread) you can only make 5 of the 8 you need each week so every 4 weeks you can make 3 items if you use every method.

blacksmithing -
40 fire x 8g = 320g
10 hardened elementium x 100g = 1000g
1320g total + 3 orbs

this is where the cost is going to be vastly different to each person, the orbs. 3 orbs is at a MINIMUM 3 dungeons which could take anywhere from 30minutes to an hour each, possibly more.
now theres 1896g difference between the tailoring and BS cost. for me i can make more than 2k gold in the time it takes to run 1 dungeon so even if i am garenteed to get the orbs(which i wouldnt be) the cost of making a blacksmithing item is still going to be WAY higher than tailoring. conservatively i can make 5k an hour and lets say that it takes 2 hours to get my 3 orbs, thats 16.3k gold to craft BS items. now i by no means think thats the norm but lets just say you spent that 2 hours herbing you could easily get 2k gold in that 2 hours. 1320+2000 = 3320. making the costs roughly the same.


now again, theres many logistical problems with the tailoring methods in that you can only make 5 per week. but with even a little planning(keep doing your CDs even if you dont immediately need the cloth) you can completely negate them.

TLDR: you only should have problems with dreamcloth if you dont think ahead. guess what, the new patterns for 4.3 take 8 dreamcloth each, start making it now.


my comparison of the materials cost from another thread.

my basic conclusion, professions are different but relatively equal.

if you frequent the profession forums i do, you will see that every profession is the worst one ever.
for me i can make more than 2k gold in the time it takes to run 1 dungeon so even if i am garenteed to get the orbs(which i wouldnt be) the cost of making a blacksmithing item is still going to be WAY higher than tailoring. conservatively i can make 5k an hour and lets say that it takes 2 hours to get my 3 orbs, thats 16.3k gold to craft BS items.


Or for me, yeah I can be working the AH selling gems, but my thought process re: Chaos Orbs that I don't have for 378 stuff is this: Mnevis doesn't need to run Zuls for VP, I get it from raiding. I only have so much time/tolerance for heroics a week. My Hunter, Druid, and Mage usually do need the VP.

So in the time it would take me to go out and 'farm' 3 Chaos Orbs, I could pretty roughly estimate I'd cap one of my other toons, earning them roughly half a 378 piece of gear (so again, at least 10k value, in the scale of gold of these days). Even if I throw my VP away selling bracers though, I can make more by not farming Chaos Orbs.
ill use averages from TuJ with a little rounding for simplification.

tailoring:
8 dreamcloth x 30 volatiles each = 240 x 23g(air) = 5520g
----------------------------------------240 x 20g(water) = 4800g
----------------------------------------240x 7g(earth) = 1680g
----------------------------------------240x 8g(fire) = 1920g
----------------------------------------240x 9g(life) = 2160g
averaged is 3216g per item

now theres advantages and disadvantages here. on the plus side if you are patient or had been stockpiling you could have been using only the cheaper methods and kept your costs way down. and on the downside(as clearly noted in this thread) you can only make 5 of the 8 you need each week so every 4 weeks you can make 3 items if you use every method.

blacksmithing -
40 fire x 8g = 320g
10 hardened elementium x 100g = 1000g
1320g total + 3 orbs

this is where the cost is going to be vastly different to each person, the orbs. 3 orbs is at a MINIMUM 3 dungeons which could take anywhere from 30minutes to an hour each, possibly more.
now theres 1896g difference between the tailoring and BS cost. for me i can make more than 2k gold in the time it takes to run 1 dungeon so even if i am garenteed to get the orbs(which i wouldnt be) the cost of making a blacksmithing item is still going to be WAY higher than tailoring. conservatively i can make 5k an hour and lets say that it takes 2 hours to get my 3 orbs, thats 16.3k gold to craft BS items. now i by no means think thats the norm but lets just say you spent that 2 hours herbing you could easily get 2k gold in that 2 hours. 1320+2000 = 3320. making the costs roughly the same.


now again, theres many logistical problems with the tailoring methods in that you can only make 5 per week. but with even a little planning(keep doing your CDs even if you dont immediately need the cloth) you can completely negate them.

TLDR: you only should have problems with dreamcloth if you dont think ahead. guess what, the new patterns for 4.3 take 8 dreamcloth each, start making it now.


my comparison of the materials cost from another thread.


if you frequent the profession forums i do, you will see that every profession is the worst one ever.


This post, while accurate, assumes the tailor/BS has access to the pattern of interest. I was referring to the striking variation in cost when it comes to "outsourcing" crafting more than making items out of bop mats in general. Presumably these items are BOE so that they may be purchased by others who are not leatherworkers or blacksmiths or tailors. That the cost to reimburse craftspeople for mats should vary so significantly by craft is ridiculous.
Yes, a tailor can make 5 dreamcloth without any orbs-but that tailor would need 150 volatiles. My original post was mistyped-its actually 240 volatiles for a 378 crafted from dreamcloth.
Somehow my Tailor has enough Dreamcloth on hand currently to make 11 ilvl 378 Tailored items, while my Blacksmith has enough Orbs to make exactly zero ilvl 378 Smithed items.

Because I can walk into the AH and buy 30 cheap Volatiles each day with no effort at all, but to get an Orb I have to PuG on average 5 awful awful awful Cata Heroics.
Somehow my Tailor has enough Dreamcloth on hand currently to make 11 ilvl 378 Tailored items, while my Blacksmith has enough Orbs to make exactly zero ilvl 378 Smithed items.

Because I can walk into the AH and buy 30 cheap Volatiles each day with no effort at all, but to get an Orb I have to PuG on average 5 awful awful awful Cata Heroics.


I was referring more to the cost to the consumer.....since the items in question were intended for trade and sale on the "open market".
But, I am glad for you, that you a) have access to cheap volatiles that apparently do not vary by type (though this is completely irrelevant as it does nothing to diminish the unbalanced ratio of volatiles required by various recipes) and b) that you have procured the necessary patterns to utilize your dream cloth and thus realize it's full economic potential.....oh, wait, you said you have it piling up.

I have a resto druid, shaman, holy pally and a disc/holy priest. It is about 1/4th the cost to have the leather/mail boots made as it is to have cloth or plate. Tailors are asking for about 1.2k per dreamcloth, and a tailoring pattern requires 8, while orbs go for about 400-600 gold and the leather pattern requires 3.

Either make BOEs require roughly equivalent mats and of similar end cost and "farm-ability" or get rid of them all together. Doesn't need to be equal, but 400% variation in cost is ridiculous and a 6:1 ratio on required material is ridiculous and unwarranted.

Two Alchemists transmuting elements every day can produce more Water and Air than a single Tailor can use and the other three are cheap.

My Tailor has two patterns and has had no customers. Because the limiting factor is the availability of Living Embers vs availability of a similar-power item as a drop. It is almost irrelevant whether the other mats cost 1k or 2k or 5k when you need 4 Embers that still go for 15k each on my server. People aren't going to haggle over the loose change. The trouble is people don't want to blow 60k on a single item when they think an alternative could drop next run (and almost everybody thinks that way).

PS every server is different but wow, 1.2k per Dreamcloth? They're worth about 400g each where I am. I think you may just be running into some unscrupulous Tailors.
PS every server is different but wow, 1.2k per Dreamcloth? They're worth about 400g each where I am. I think you may just be running into some unscrupulous Tailors.


My 2 tailors, tailor 1, level 80, 525 tailor. I do the 3 cheap dreamcloths each week and make leg enchants, Generally I dont like going as low as 400, because the embersilk alone costs 200. But 500 is a reasonable markup.

The second tailor I tried selling at 800g per cloth (endless dreamwalkers) but got told I was too expensive over and over by the cheapskates. Considering some of my cloth was made when volatiles cost 20g+ each meh.

In the end I switched to the riskier method of doing my own sales, 10k for my 8 dreamcloth is my average. But i have made more. Generally the boots sell within 24 hours, If they dont I drop the price 1k and try again and sell at the new price from that point on.

Living embers crashed through 2k here today. I picked up some at 1900.

Sloe I have same problem as Mnevis, My tailor(s) churns out 5 cloth every week. If I want to make a blacksmithing item I have to do heroics. I healed some nub alts through 5 heroics last week just so I could grab the orbs to gear up a alt. If i had another 10 orbs I would still blow them on alts rather then sell.
On my server the mail and leather 378 boots go for about 10-14k.
The plate boots around 16k (less for spirit ones) and the cloth boots go for around 22k-26k.
I can get 4 embers from gbank, the gold cost to have the leather or mail boots for my sham or druid is about 2k, the cloth boots for my priest: 9k.
Also, if you limit the dreamcloth production to the cheap volatiles, then the CD is 2 weeks....but somehow this is not impacting the end cost of cloth BOEs. I think because, perhaps, you are not factoring the loss in potential profit you suffer from not putting that insane amount of cloth and volatiles on the AH, instead of letting all that cloth languish in your bag.
So, a dreamcloth shortage, compound CD requirements (for xmutes and cloth crafting) and the 240 volatiles needed to craft enough cloth to make the boots definitely doesn't factor into any hypothetical price discrepancy according to the testimony here....are the prices for the purchasing the leather, mail and cloth equitable on most other realms, then?
Price check. That I may loosely qualify my realm is an outlier, please.

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