Blizzard, you've crossed the line

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10/16/2011 07:02 PMPosted by Achméd
Oh look, another complainer forum where I don't give a damn.


But the rest of us who do sure appreciate the free bump :)

I'd just like to hear some more feedback from Blizzard. They've closed other threads and told us to redirect suggestions and feedback to this specific thread. We've done so, now I'd like to see our concerns addressed.

I am okay with the concept of micro-transactions, when done tastefully. The one question I'd like to have answered is, if I buy this pet PURELY with the intent of using it as a collector, how am I being reassured I'm getting the same dollar value as any of the other pets available on the store. That is, if I go in intending to buy one pet for personal use, and not for the auction house, is my $10 investment going to be "protected" as it was for every other pet, or am I shelling out $50-100 for the same privilege I would enjoy with any other Blizzard Store transaction?
Just a few things to clarify.

Some people still don't seem to realize that yes you absolutely will be able to buy this pet with real money and sell it for gold, because it does not bind to anything until Use.

Even if we have to get very theoretical about what people could do with the pets alone it's still the fact that it sets a precedent for similar changes later that will definitely have the kind of big effects we are worried about.


Sorry, the trading cards set the precedent years ago.

10/16/2011 07:06 PMPosted by Snarklez
WOW is still the most successful MMORPG. Yes; it is. They don't need to do this. Even the games that did need to do this didn't do it because they thought it would be so much more money on top of a subscription or instead of a subscription; they did it because their last chance was to to squeeze as much money out of the lesser amount of players that really loved said game as they could.


WoW is also probably one of (if not) the last major successful MMOs to use the subscription model. It is in Blizzard's best interest to experiment with different methods of generating a profit. How much you love the game is completely irrelevant.

10/16/2011 07:06 PMPosted by Snarklez
btw I too was instantly turned off by Diablo 3 when I heard about the Real Money Auction House, and it has nothing to do with how much money I have as some poster generalized. I mean at least you can say D3 has no subscription, but still that crap is so disappointing.


I'm sorry to hear that. As a longtime Diablo 2 player, I am ecstatic about the release of Diablo 3, and I am optimistic about the RMAH for several reasons.

1.) It gives them the funds and motivation to maintain the game long-term. D2 was a great game, but the online servers were essentially operated at a loss, and they couldn't afford to have the sort of "GM" service that we enjoy in WoW.

2.) It's voluntary. You don't need to spend money on the RMAH to complete the content, and ostensibly you won't need to use it to compete in PvP either, though it may save you some time (which I'm fine with).

3.) It actually addresses the issue of third party sites. In D2 there was plenty of selling items for IRL money, there was also trading done with third party currency. A lot of serious traders simply used currency that existed only on a 3rd party forum.

4.) It is not available for players in "hardcore" mode.
It's just like they said:

And when you see them you'll be all like :O and we'll be all like :D and then people on the forums will still be all like(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
10/16/2011 09:31 PMPosted by Snarklez
Wow is not just a successful mmo, it's still the MOST successful. They are if anything, the one game that has no problem making tons of money off of subscriptions.


So what? That can't last forever, they're going to cannibalize their own clients with D3, and again with "Titan," and you're talking about a 7-year-old game, after all. Waiting until they're in trouble to start experimenting is silly, and remember, we're talking about a vanity pet, here; not raid drops.
Just keep posting until they answer. Occupy WoW Forums.
In any situation, even if they start selling the best gear for money, baddies will still be bad and they will still get nowhere.

I have played games where you could buy the best gear and yeah in those cases it was a huge unfair advantage because the game only had world pvp involved and you could get one shotted by a guy your level that had spent hundreds on gear. But in a game like WoW that just doesn't seem feasible, a raid boss will still wipe your group if you ignore mechanics, and better pvpers will still run circles around you no matter your gear.
10/16/2011 09:43 PMPosted by Snarklez
This doesn't make any sense. Why should they care if they are cannibalizing their own customers. It's still Blizzard making the money.


This should be obvious. If WoW is losing customers, WoW is less profitable.

10/16/2011 09:43 PMPosted by Snarklez
This is going to lose more customers than it will gain or money that it will generate if they keep involving RMT.


That's what they're likely trying to find out. If you are correct, you can expect them to modulate their efforts accordingly. However, if this is nothing more than the whining of a few, loud individuals...

We're talking about a Vanity that drop that makes it easy to obtain gold to buy gear to get into raids or buy raid spots or whatever, but more realistically it's not hard for Blizz to implement a few drastic changes that make it much more viable to just purchase good gear with gold instead of raiding for it, once they see that they can. Or if anything much more viable and pressured to buy gear just to get into the raid in the first place.

We are trying to stop them from thinking this is a good idea.


BoP gear is still a mainstay of the way WoW functions. Its the carrot to get people into PvP, and to get them into PvE. Being able to get ahead by 1 trinket and 1 ring and a weapon because you threw $200 at some pets isn't going to change anything.
I wanna just point out one giant flaw. If the pet is BoA, how can you put it on the AH?

BoA binds to the account that bought it, so you can't put it up for sale so someone else could have it.

Did anyone actually think of that?


I'm sure they can make it "on use BoA"


Yeah, I don't think that's how it works.
Well here's the simple solution:

Two options for this pet available to people who purchase it-

(1.) BoA version of it for $10 so that it has the same quality as other pets

(2.) BOe version you can sell in game safely to others who can't buy from blizzard store.
This is basically whats happening.

  • Blizzard notices gold buyers/sellers are making money doing what they do

  • Blizzard gets greedy and jealous and wants their cut

  • Blizzard gives a "safe" way for the gold traders to do their business while forcing the gold traders to give them a "cut" for this new easy option to buy and sell the gold (the $10 for each pet they buy


  • Whether i agree with blizzard or not from a business standpoint this makes sense and there is no way you will ever get them to change their mind.

    Assume that 10-20% of the active players purchased past mounts/companions when they were boa. That means 80-90% were not giving blizz any money for these pets/mounts. Now with this new system there may be as much as 75% of the players getting these pets (multiply that by 2-5 times for people getting them on alts.) blizz could making as much as 100% - 500% more money from this.

    With 12 million players at $10 for each pet this means under the old system blizz may have been making $1.2M - $2.4M. With the new system blizz can make $4M - $12M. If you really think blizz will give up an opportunity to make up to $12M just because people are complaining (the actual amount of players quitting because of this will most likely be minimal.) your crazy. I know I wouldnt.

    *NOTE: These percentages are completely made up and may be way off the mark. They were just used to get my point across.


    I'm sure they can make it "on use BoA"


    Yeah, I don't think that's how it works.

    Thank you for bumping, and ignoring the post where I explained things to you specifically.

    The point is they'd have to code something new, or do something tricky.

    They could make it a container, with the usable item inside (like the way you could trade BoP items that were inside lockboxes). They could make use trigger a flag on the account the same way entering a code used to. I'm sure there are other options.

    This allows them to actually preserve the value, while meeting the stated goal of letting folks buy it outside the game and sell to folks inside the game, and apply the new system to the old pets/mounts so those could also be traded and sold in the game too.
    10/17/2011 01:35 AMPosted by Garlorik
    Whether i agree with blizzard or not from a business standpoint this makes sense and there is no way you will ever get them to change their mind.

    If the majority of folks are against this, in one form or another, they'll adjust things. They've done it in the past.

    Assume that 10-20% of the active players purchased past mounts/companions when they were boa. That means 80-90% were not giving blizz any money for these pets/mounts. Now with this new system there may be as much as 75% of the players getting these pets (multiply that by 2-5 times for people getting them on alts.) blizz could making as much as 100% - 500% more money from this.

    You neglect the fact that if 10-20% were buying the BoA, under the new model many will say "single use pet on a single character for the same price? no way", so the peeps who would have purchased it previously aren't.

    And while the peeps that don't buy it will be made up for by the peeps that are buying it new, those new sales won't be all that great. With the initial flood of peeps trying to get gold for cash, you're going to run into an issue where peeps won't be able to get what they think is enough gold for their $10, so those sales will rapidly drop off. After the market stabilizes you might get a few on the AH, and a few bought to order, but it'll be a very very limited market.

    They won't get anywhere near the saturation that you're saying, while simultaneously alienating a good portion of their playerbase.

    If you really think blizz will give up an opportunity to make up to $12M just because people are complaining (the actual amount of players quitting because of this will most likely be minimal.) your crazy. I know I wouldnt.

    That's because you're not a successful business. The potential of a one time sale of $10 is not offset by losing $13-15 a month, even when you consider what comes out of the sub.

    The better option is to keep that sub while enticing them to buy the $10 item.

    If they take the suggestion that I keep bringing up, BoAoU, then they will make at least as much as they did on previous because they're not alienating anyone (and there won't be sub losses). They'll almost certainly make more because there will be the folks selling the item in the game, plus they could change the existing pets/mounts to the new model to gain sales for some portion of the untapped market there.
    Somebody with a Blizzcon ticket please hit up the Q&A and make them respond publically to why we now have to shell out $100 for the same pet that used to cost us $10?

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