Hunters have just been overbuffed :\

Hunter
"Thunderstomp now scales from 0.98% of Ranged Attack Power."

I'm expecting to see some major nerfs after such a drastic buff. I'm not sure what blizzard was thinking when they put something so plainly overpowered in the ptr...

/ (╯°Д°)╯︵ ┻━┻
It's hilarious to watch their aversion to making the other 2 specs scale with weapon damage.
Would be nice to have Thunderstomp actually be useful, and hold threat against Mend Pet aggro, unlike the crap damage/threat it does now.
What is this new

/ (╯°Д°)╯︵ ┻━┻


thing? What is that supposed to mean?

On-topic... yeah, those buffs are laughable. I saw the "+15% explosive shot damage" then I saw the formula where only base damage was changed.... Surprise!

BM change is alright, but not enough.

1% of attack power to Thunderstomp? That's like what, ~150 more damage? When player AoEs frequently hit for over 10,000? So before, it wasn't even worth talenting, now it's slightly-less-not-even-worth-talenting. I don't see what the issue is here, tank threat scaling is through the roof, what on earth makes them so afraid to do an actual meaningful buff here?

I think they just posted those changes to appease the people who are calling for hunter buffs that don't even realize how little effect they will have.
What is this new

/ (╯°Д°)╯︵ ┻━┻


thing? What is that supposed to mean?

On-topic... yeah, those buffs are laughable. I saw the "+15% explosive shot damage" then I saw the formula where only base damage was changed.... Surprise!

BM change is alright, but not enough.

1% of attack power to Thunderstomp? That's like what, ~150 more damage? When player AoEs frequently hit for over 10,000? So before, it wasn't even worth talenting, now it's slightly-less-not-even-worth-talenting. I don't see what the issue is here, tank threat scaling is through the roof, what on earth makes them so afraid to do an actual meaningful buff here?

I think they just posted those changes to appease the people who are calling for hunter buffs that don't even realize how little effect they will have.


It's me flipping a table. ):

It's me flipping a table. ):


Huh. I don't see it... though I'm guessing the two boxes with FF09 and FE35 are probably supposed to be some actual symbols and my computer just can't display them.
10/13/2011 07:57 PMPosted by Brokenjaw
It's hilarious to watch their aversion to making the other 2 specs scale with weapon damage.


This. It's like watching my friend trying to drag his Rottweiler to the vet.
yea, it hits for ~400 now. op as !@#$.
Volono 9 minutes ago
Blizzard: Buff This! Buff that! Buff Hunters! Oh, Warriors? Change a few animations around.


Superthad
2 minutes ago
@Volono: Ya, I think Blizzard doesn't like Melee, Except for DKs.


Then ya have comments like this on the notes....
It looks like they recognize that Surv and BM need DPS buffs, that's good news right there. These numbers might not be enough, to bring the specs to par, but they aren't final, either.

From the sound of some of the complaints you'd think hunters want nothing less than a full class overhaul in 4.3
It looks like they recognize that Surv and BM need DPS buffs, that's good news right there. These numbers might not be enough, to bring the specs to par, but they aren't final, either.

From the sound of some of the complaints you'd think hunters want nothing less than a full class overhaul in 4.3


The problem with Surv and BM is that they have severe scaling issues, coupled with buggy/poorly designed mechanics that cripple them. BM hasn't been a viable spec since 2008. Surv has had scaling problems since Wrath as well and none of the buffs really address the issues. Surv (in need of scaling changes badly) gets another partial reversion of the nerf they got in January, which only affects the base damage, and not the scaling issues of the spec, and still isn't enough to make Surv viable compared to Marks. BM, suffering from mechanical issues gets a relatively minor damage buff, and none of the underlying mechanical issues are resolved or even addressed.

It's not that hunters aren't appreciative of buffs, but these buffs are not enough, nor the right type of buff to help the underlying problem with those specs, or Marks for that matter, which is falling behind as well. As a first stab at our changes it doesn't seem they are looking in the right direction.

It's like if hunters were going to the Emergency Room with 2 broken arms, and the first thing the doctors did was put a Hello Kitty band-aid on a scratch on their knee.

I hope that there are more fixes to address the problems hunters have, and will reserve final judgement until later in the patch cycle, but so far Blizz is not inspiring confidence in their ability to fix hunters.
It's not just scaling issues. The scary part is that MM is not the best spec - it's actually one of the worst-designed specs out I've ever seen - it's just the one doing the most damage. (No, really: ISS is the curse of the spec because it demands two steadies in a row every 4-5 seconds. Sure, it makes sense and technically, it's a good idea, but it lacks the spontaneity of SV.)

One of the priorities of the hunter developers should revolve mostly around having a real choice about what to take to a raid, and that involves really looking at the class and asking "what's wrong with this?" while resisting the temptation to just 'slap more damage on it.' More damage helps, but in the case of hunters, that's like using band-aids to heal the cuts caused by slamming one's own head repeatedly against a wall to get the demons out of one's brain: the lack of damage is merely a symptom of a far larger problem.

You can probably skip this entire post because it's all been said before. I just want to get it off my chest...again.

The major problem with BM isn't that the spec itself sucks (well, Killing Streak could use some fixing); it really isn't too bad if you ignore how badly TBW has been mistreated (much like a marriage is happy if you ignore the black eyes and bruises on the wife), but the inefficiency of pets themselves absolutely cripples the build. It's like driving a well-designed car with oval tires: almost there, but not quite.

In movement-heavy fights, BM suffers horribly because of the way Kill Command is designed to only work when the pet is in melee range of something, and God help you if your pet's pathing bugs come into play during an encounter. No amount of damage buffs make up for artificial stupidity: your pet could have nuclear warheads for teeth, but if it's too stupid to get to the target or made of paper, then it's useless. If using Kill Command also reset the cooldown on dash/dive, that might help, but it might also mean that your pet's going to be just as stupid, only faster.

I think that's one of the reasons TBW used to be such a powerhouse: you suffer through the pet running around, getting itself feared, missing platforms, and all other sorts of annoying crap, but once you get the pet latched onto something that's not going anywhere soon, bam, bite a little longer, make it hit a little stronger, longer with big red. (Then people had to cry about beast cleave without realizing that BM hunters really don't have all that much after that.)

Another issue with BM is rez'ing your pet takes up 35 focus and ten seconds: if Blizzard had bothered to put a cast reduction in the spec or make it part of the mastery, that would have been nice, but nope. (Incidentally, this is something I would have baked into Spirit Bond (reduce focus cost by 25/50%) and Improved Mend Pet (reduce casting time by 50/100%) or slapped into a minor glyph.)
SV has a whole boatload of problems (Most people are fond of pointing this out, so I'll get it out of the way: SV does not scale with weapon damage and RAP is a poor substitute), starting with Blizzard taking SV through six years of evolution from the melee-based talent tree to its ranged variant, and right when SV was going to make the jump from water to dry land, Blizzard forgets to snip off a few things that SV no longer needs or can no longer use.

The SV concept itself is just bad because the description of the spec was obviously written up by someone who's never taken a good look at the talent tree itself.

SV as it is now is MM's schizophrenic, inferior, and redundant little sister: SV has no significant damage buffs to traps, its easily-applied and uncontrollable DOTs and easily-broken and hard-to-implement CC are in a constant love-hate relationship, its play style isn't that much different than MM, it has the exact same secondary stat priority as MM (am I suggesting that mastery should be more important to SV? I'm not saying it should, but it'd be nice!), its trap-specific damage buffs aren't effective on raid bosses which forces the player to ignore traps and depend mostly on ranged damage like MM, its use of traps scream 'melee hunter,' but its trap launcher says differently, and its usage is so damned clunky that you're basically forced to use traps at melee range anyway because everyone has some many closers and nobody really stands still long enough after the trap's armed, it has few damage buffs to its non-DOT damage, MM gets more use out of Improved Serpent Sting than SV does, and in PVP, it doesn't have enough to compensate for the lack of wonderful goodies MM receives at the middle of the tree.

It's not even a "Betty or Veronica" kind of choice where you get two equally appealing choices and everyone tends to pick one or the other while respecting differing opinions, but more like "Barbie or Skipper" where both things technically do the same thing, but one is good at big girl things while the other is only good at little girl things, and only weirdos pick the little sister. (Or something. That metaphor just went somewhere horrible.)

It would've been one thing is SV was extremely specialized at stationary shooting (as Sniper Training would seem to suggest) while MM was the 'shoot-and-scoot' spec, but that didn't happen. It might have meant something if SV had access to disabling stings like Scorpid or Viper that MM players would give up a right nut to us, enhancements to Camouflage, aspects, or even an SV-specific trap, (you know, the other things that Blizzard loves to point out a hunter can do besides go pew-pew) but nope. Nothing. SV is my favorite spec, and I'm very quick to admit that while it has utility, it just doesn't have the pure oomph that MM has in raid encounters. For example, I used to love double-trapping as SV, but once that was taken away, there's really no reason to play as an elemental MM build. Raid encounters are generally about shooting the crap out of things, and no hunter spec excels at this in the way that MM does.

At the end of the day, all SV can do is act like MM with lower DPS, and it doesn't matter if your damage is elemental or physical, at the end of the day, the DPS meters don't lie - well, they mislead, but never outright lie.
Mis, i gotta say i really enjoy reading your posts. Very insightful, amusing analogies and a very balanced assessment of current state of hunters

That said, and i admit I'm a pessimist now, hunters are a conglomeration of patches and "fixes" to a degree that the idea of an integrated set of complementary abilities that work to create a spec with "flavor" is just beyond possible now. The pieces just didn't fall into place. There's an old conundrum about if each board on a boat is replaced over time, and eventually not a single original piece is left, is it still the same boat? What if some didn't fit and more were forgotten? How about if instead of boards, peanut butter and leaves were used?

I don't believe any single designer with vision has the ability, authority, time or direction to make hunters into any of the 100 viable specs we all imagine.
And when i read "Thunderstomp now scales from 0.98%... " I'm even more sure of it.
10/13/2011 09:53 PMPosted by Inri
yea, it hits for ~400 now. op as !@#$.


Can you imagine if they'd put in the extra 0.02% to make it a full percentage, jesus christ...
What is this new




It's me flipping a table. ):


haha that's p awesome
10/14/2011 02:55 AMPosted by Ontap
Reckon you make me some biscuits.


Mmmmmm, alright then.

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