Was Cata the first "failed" expansion?

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I dont see how you can say the expansion failed. Thats much too general. The expansion might not have put out the best heroics, or the hardest raids (although I don't see how people are arguing this game caters to casuals in raids, how many times did you down rag on heroic before the nerf? after it even? how many of the casual guilds do you think did it? seriously... get over the casual/hardcore nonsense), but one of the main goals in the expansion was to re-do the old world and I'm pretty sure more people then not would say that they did a good job at it.

Should they have invested all that time and resources on the old world? Maybe not, but I wouldn't say that makes it a failure.

Honestly, if you are still playing this game, still raiding/pvping/questing/farming and posting on these forums, then the expansion couldn't be a failure, because if it really was, you people would not be playing or posting here.
10/26/2011 11:44 PMPosted by Magnijung
Well don't forget Cata Was also a redesign of the entire world. (So even if you place no value there, they still had all that work to do.)

Personally I think that Blizzard did not design leveling system well. I am leveling a mage, level 84 atm. Leveling experience SUCKS!!! Let me get this straight in 1 day and 2 hours you get to level 60. You skill entire zones. You skip 50% of zones where you actually level. So basically all the new content is being skipped. Then you go back to Outland and Northrend. You spend about 12 hours there and you are back leveling in Cataclysm Zones.

Personally I would prefer having about 2.5 times slower time leveling 1 through 60 and have 2.5 times fast time leveling through Northrend. I find Outland to be perfect.


skipping content should be a "feature", not something that you must do.

instead of lowering and lowering the exp needed to level they should just increase the Xp bonus from heirlooms to something ridiculous like 200% or 300%

that way ppl taht have seen it or have nothing to learn from it can just skip it, and ppl that are new to the game can actually experience the questing/dungeons/pvp in a slower pace.

btw, cata was the best expac ever. 4.3 its going to ruin it i can feel it. but so far so good.
To be honest theres nothing about Cata thats better than Wotlk.

Its only worse in every regard.

PvP is worse than its ever been in 7 years.

PvE is worse than its ever been in 7 years.

I'm smelling a troll here. PVE was more inclusive in Wrath and more exclusive in BC. So is what way are both Wrath and BC PVE superior to Cata?

PVP is wrath was a complete joke. It started at the end of BC with the 3.0 patch and continues to this day pre-Cata gear. Everyone is 1-2 shot. I recently leveled a rogue to 85 doing mostly BG's and had no idea what I was doing because I could kill most everyone with a single ambush or else finish them with eviscerate if they were still standing. My Elemental shaman just has to flame shock/lava burst to kill anyone <81. PVP in Wrath was a complete joke. The only thing that makes Cata PVP difficult currently is healing being too powerful. MS is getting buffed, though it may need to get some more. But otherwise, it is good to go back to a back and forth health bar tug-o-war.
you have to remember that Cata was more like half an expansion this time round, while the other half went towards developing all the old world content.

Blizzard did seem to have rushed this one a bit too much, leaving out a lot of potential and great stories. They focused way too hard on very specialized interests.

In my opinion, this was easily the worst expansion. At least WotLK had Ulduar as its highpoint, I'm not sure Cataclysm actually has had a "Highpoint"

Perhaps MoP will fix the big issues of Cataclysm, perhaps not.

2 things I think need to be addressed above all else are severily low population servers with majorly imbalanced faction numbers and merging them together, and the other issue being developing the story a little better than it was handled this time around.
I will preface by saying I have been playing since Vanilla and my reasons with Cataclysm stem from that.

First off, ressurecting bosses can be fun. Bringing back Onyxia in WOTLK was an enjoyable experience for filler content, but bringing her back again, along with Nefarian, Ragnaros, ZG & ZA screams copout "we had no other boss ideas" to me. Vanilla players got to enjoy these bosses in their 40 man prime (sans ZG which was 20 man), and BC players got to enjoy ZA in its 10 man variant. Bringing back a boss or two is fine, as long as they are not part of the major story arc in an expansion. In Cata this is where that failed. Yeah, you changed fight mechanics and made heroic Ragnaros laughably hard, but cmon....I killed him a BAJILLION times in Vanilla, along with Nefarian and Onyxia. Anyone remember how epic it was on your first 40 man Onyxia kill when there was a limit to the amount of DoTs you could put on a boss? I sure do, and will carry those memories of truely epic boss kills with me. Killing them again feels washed out.

Too much manpower was spent revamping the world, which was a neat idea, untill you actually leveled in it, and you leveled so quickly your quests grayed out a quarter of the way into the zone and a great story became a fragmented shell of what it once used to be. Azeroth after the Cataclysm became a VERY different place, but unfortunately no one got to experience it, even the people that were going for Loremaster blew through quests with out reading them.

I really hope this is corrected in Mists, as of now, I log on just to raid or do holiday events then dont play till reset. :(

Let's come to an agreement together, Ok? We'll keep working to make things better, you keep providing constructive feedback on what we could do to make it better. We'll then try to figure out how we can meet in the middle on some of those things as often as possible. Deal?


The initial difficulty of Cata in general was too high, no matter how many wanna be pros tells otherwise, you have the numbers, numbers dont lie, people do.

When people said that the difficulty was too high, instead of listening you mock those player with the blog "Wow, Heroics are hard". now i'm no idiot, i know it wasn't you intention to mock the players, but the things is that players were giving a VERY IMPORTANT feedback, they were telling you something very important to them, and you asnwered that saying basically L2P. It wasn't even that the people weren't completing the heroics, the thing was the difficulty make them not fun. Not only that, you then launch ZA/ZG being stupidly hard too.

From my point of view dungeon design were bad, nothing was fun them.

The enemy wasn't very present. In Both TBC and WOTLK we were all very wary of who the enemy was and why it was such a threat. That was lost somehow in Cata.

The revamp of the old content took you too much developing time and the low content in end level was very noticeable.

Shared Lockout were the worst mistake you have made in years.

Healing changes. From my point of view this new system is a bad one, it doesnt feel like you are a heroe, it feels like you are a nurse applying bandages.

Healing classes unbalance. Since the BETA people were telling you the Holy Paladin were way OP and that the beacon and holy power mechanichs as they were implemented gived them too much advantage, since the BETA, yet it took over 2 months if i remeber correctly to fixed it, and in that time holy paladins owned everything in PVE.
On the other side, Resto Shamans were being used as mana batteries, and it is still the less powerfull healers, even when now at least we are not that low and we are not being automatically benched like we were in every progression fight in t11 (apart from the one being used as mana battery).

Phasing and resources... Seriously, pay attention to those things, when Cata launched it was hell to try to go farm herbs and mines. It is mostly fixed now, but pay attention to the next exp.

You should do LFR for 10 mans, it will have less chance to fail than with 25 pugs, consider it and dont discarded like you did with the difficulty at the start of Cata.

Those are things you should take into consideration in the future.
10/27/2011 10:54 AMPosted by Nethaera
The most important point of insight I can give is that the development team is always looking for ways to make the game and player experience better at every opportunity for the overall health of the game

How about looking at realm populations and imbalanced factions? That opportunity has been knocking on your door since the start of WotLK yet noone has answered.

If your reply to this is for the players on those dead realms to pony up $25 bucks for each of their characters then don't bother.
10/27/2011 09:41 AMPosted by Nethaera
Let's come to an agreement together, Ok? We'll keep working to make things better, you keep providing constructive feedback on what we could do to make it better. We'll then try to figure out how we can meet in the middle on some of those things as often as possible. Deal?

You keep talking about us like we're one unified group of players. Even to think that there are two types of WoW players is incorrect. It's not just Casual and Hardcore gamers. There are dozens of different play styles, skill levels, etc. With 11M people a certain group of players might be a small slice of the pie but will still have hundreds of thousands of people and can have a very loud voice. IMO, that fact more than anything MUST be addressed. You can't just have two difficulty levels anymore.

I remember Blizzcon a year ago a question was asked about adding a thrid level of difficulty to raids. (ex. Normal, Heroic, Epic). The response was that to do so would be "very difficult". While that may be, it's what the game needs. I'd even go beyond that... maybe 4-5 levels to choose from. Maybe do something like you did in ICC with the increasing buff. In normal mode, let the group choose how much of a buff they get at the start. 0%-25%. However, only unbufffed do you qualify for achievements. And Heroic mode there is only one level. Holding the standard for competitive pve guilds.

Unfortunately, from my point of view, too much of cataclysm was geared for the higher end players. My "casual" guild of friends was demoralized by Cata raiding and ultimately fell apart. While we had a fine raid team in WotLK (Kingslayer, etc). I've heard all the comments like "go find a better guild if you want to raid!" but why should I have to allow the game dictate to me who I play the game with? I have friends... and together we play a game. That's the best model for enjoying the game. However, currently, the model is "Play the game and fiend new friends that can do the content you want to do. Even if you can't stand some of them."

Here's another thing to think about. I don't have the exact stats, but I believe that the percentage of the more casual player groups vastly out numbers the percentage of higher end player groups. That's more than evident when you look at the boss kills statistics. However, the more dedicated players are more likely to post in the forums, come to blizzcon, and have an overall louder voice in the community. The more casual player goups aren't typically as vocal. In the end, the minority groups' (minority by size) issues are being addressed more often than the majority. Seems a little backwards to me. To a casual player if the game isn't what they want it to be, they're morelikely to just not play. A hardcore player however, is more likely to play regardless.

Most games out there get this idea. SC2 for example, when you login you have multiple difficulty levels to play on. Why even put in the Easy level? Because people WANT it and PLAY it. Sure you can't necessarily use this concept for questing, but in Dungeons and Raids, you absolutely can!

Bottom line, until Blizzard finds a way to allow players of all different skill levels and dedication to experience the same content that we've all paid the same amount for... there will always be massive groups of people complaining. Players don't deserve to experience content that others can't access just because they're on a better raid team. They deserve to get better gear. Better rewards. But the experience should be made available to anyone who wants it. Plain and simple.
Blizzard is trying to keep the levelling time to maximum level the same, even though the level cap rises. This is good design, in my humble opinion.

Yes, that means too much content for the lower levels but that just improves replayability, which is not a bad thing.

We often complain about things without understanding all the reasons that went into that design. Remember, not everything about the game is strictly about us individually. The problem with trying to keep 10 million people equally happy is that you can't. It's impossible.

10/27/2011 11:05 AMPosted by Indoh
You have every right to your opinions (we value them), just remember not to take it too far and infer that lack of action on our part = lack of care.

often lack of action directly means lack of care, to those who need it.

Example: A sick guy in the hospital could have "all the friends in the world", but if nobody comes to see him or help him after notifying folks/reaching out, he begins to think that nobody really cares about him.

that's how we think when people with logical data, and real-world facts and sound reasoning for said concerns go unanswered.

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