Theramore in flames: Horde favoritism. pt. 2

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The day Alleria and Turalyon become neutral is the day blizz pisses on the face of every Warcraft 2 player out there. There is no conceivable reason they should do that, considering they sacrificed their lives in Azeroth in order to take the fight to draenor and seal the dark portal...

And yet I can clearly see Blizz doing it, so the Horde can see their story too.

Dammit blizz.


Well, to be fair, Warcraft 2 players probably make up, what, like 2% of WoW's audience? Not to mention, they pretty much retconned Warcraft I and II in their entirety save for the general story arc when they released those novels for WoW players. Including the part where they retconned Doomhammer into killing Lothar in a "fair duel."


Blizz actually retconned the retcon.

Basically, the book version is the story the horde tells, the game the alliance version.

Blizz actually retconned the retcon.

Basically, the book version is the story the horde tells, the game the alliance version.


They did?

I mean, don't get me wrong, I'd love for this to be true, but I've not seen an official lore source that's undone (or re-retconned) it.


Well, to be fair, Warcraft 2 players probably make up, what, like 2% of WoW's audience? Not to mention, they pretty much retconned Warcraft I and II in their entirety save for the general story arc when they released those novels for WoW players. Including the part where they retconned Doomhammer into killing Lothar in a "fair duel."


Blizz actually retconned the retcon.

Basically, the book version is the story the horde tells, the game the alliance version.


Wait, what? That's the first I've heard of that. Could you provide a link or something?

This isn't one of those stupid things where they wrote it into lore that it's debated and that "The Horde believe this happened, but the Alliance believed this happened," is it? Because that would pretty much leave it as a retcon.

Blizz actually retconned the retcon.

Basically, the book version is the story the horde tells, the game the alliance version.


They did?

I mean, don't get me wrong, I'd love for this to be true, but I've not seen an official lore source that's undone (or re-retconned) it.




Blizz actually retconned the retcon.

Basically, the book version is the story the horde tells, the game the alliance version.


Wait, what? That's the first I've heard of that. Could you provide a link or something?

This isn't one of those stupid things where they wrote it into lore that it's debated and that "The Horde believe this happened, but the Alliance believed this happened," is it? Because that would pretty much leave it as a retcon.


He became separated from the main body of his troops in what is perhaps the greatest battle in Azeroth's history. Amid the chaos, he was forced into combat with Orgrim Doomhammer, Warchief of the Horde; after a long and draining fight, Lothar was defeated in single combat after his sword was shattered by the Doomhammer, his skull crushed by a powerful blow from the legendary weapon.[6][7] However, others believe that Doomhammer did not win fairly and Lothar was killed after being ambushed by a group of Horde's warriors. Regardless, his blade fell from his dead grasp, though it did not lie for long.

http://www.wowpedia.org/Anduin_Lothar

Can't provide a link to legitimacy other than wowpedia, but Blizz has reretconned a retcon before.

WC1, Azeroth=kingdom. WC2, Azeroth=eastern kingdoms. WC3, Azeroth=known world prior to rediscovery of Kalimdor. WoW, Azeroth=world.
Bring Lordaeron back to the Alliance!!!
(I've been wanting this since I starting playing back in 2005!)
First thing: I understand why nobody likes Garrosh that much. He's a warmongering fool at times, and he has made enemies of many of his allies. However, have you ever followed the questline for Horde in Stonetalon? Garrosh is awesome right at the end; one of the best Horde questlines there is in my opinion. Also, his reaction to Sylvanas' activities with the val'kyr in early Silverpine inspired some more thought. My conclusion? I don't hate him like I used to; the guy knows how to get angry at the right things.
Second thing: Why do people hate the horde so much? Someone earlier said that anyone who thinks the horde is cool is immature and unintelligent. The horde's awesome! While they're not always nice, they have an awesome backstory with Thrall, along with their shamanistic origins and their tendency to take the brunt of all of the Alliance's crap. Think about this; out of bias and past conflict, the alliance has tried to wipe out the forsaken after they regained free will, tried to destroy the new horde after Thrall's offers of lasting peace and trade agreements, and has sought nothing but war since then. After that (and more), the Horde has simply chosen to start retaliating.
I'm not asking you to like the horde instantly, but stop acting like the Alliance is always taking the brunt of things, and that horde retaliation is unfair.
First thing: I understand why nobody likes Garrosh that much. He's a warmongering fool at times, and he has made enemies of many of his allies. However, have you ever followed the questline for Horde in Stonetalon? Garrosh is awesome right at the end; one of the best Horde questlines there is in my opinion. Also, his reaction to Sylvanas' activities with the val'kyr in early Silverpine inspired some more thought. My conclusion? I don't hate him like I used to; the guy knows how to get angry at the right things.
Second thing: Why do people hate the horde so much? Someone earlier said that anyone who thinks the horde is cool is immature and unintelligent. The horde's awesome! While they're not always nice, they have an awesome backstory with Thrall, along with their shamanistic origins and their tendency to take the brunt of all of the Alliance's crap. Think about this; out of bias and past conflict, the alliance has tried to wipe out the forsaken after they regained free will, tried to destroy the new horde after Thrall's offers of lasting peace and trade agreements, and has sought nothing but war since then. After that (and more), the Horde has simply chosen to start retaliating.
I'm not asking you to like the horde instantly, but stop acting like the Alliance is always taking the brunt of things, and that horde retaliation is unfair.


Word.
I hated that Retcon, it basically took from Lothar and his awesome just to add something to the Horde. Remember "Uncle Lothar wants You!" Seriously, why would you retcon any of this guys story, he's basically the embodiment of the Alliance and you took some of that away for the Orcs and haven't stopped since. Keep taking from the Alliance to give to the horde. Find a better way to tell a story because you are just slowly ruining yours.
First thing: I understand why nobody likes Garrosh that much. He's a warmongering fool at times, and he has made enemies of many of his allies. However, have you ever followed the questline for Horde in Stonetalon? Garrosh is awesome right at the end; one of the best Horde questlines there is in my opinion. Also, his reaction to Sylvanas' activities with the val'kyr in early Silverpine inspired some more thought. My conclusion? I don't hate him like I used to; the guy knows how to get angry at the right things.
Second thing: Why do people hate the horde so much? Someone earlier said that anyone who thinks the horde is cool is immature and unintelligent. The horde's awesome! While they're not always nice, they have an awesome backstory with Thrall, along with their shamanistic origins and their tendency to take the brunt of all of the Alliance's crap. Think about this; out of bias and past conflict, the alliance has tried to wipe out the forsaken after they regained free will, tried to destroy the new horde after Thrall's offers of lasting peace and trade agreements, and has sought nothing but war since then. After that (and more), the Horde has simply chosen to start retaliating.
I'm not asking you to like the horde instantly, but stop acting like the Alliance is always taking the brunt of things, and that horde retaliation is unfair.


Alliance never tried to wipe out the forsaken, they actually allied with them and got stabbed in the back for upholding their end of the deal.

They never tried to destroy the horde after Thrall offered peace. Thrall didn't offer peace until Jaina sacrificed her father. The peace was broken in Wrath because of Forsaken traitors and Horde warriors attacking Alliance from behind while they were fighting Undead. So Horde broke that not Alliance.

And they have not sought nothing but war since then. Varian attended two separate peace meetings with thrall to try to come to an agreement, instead they attempted to assassinate him one time(though this wasn't horde) and enslaved him the first time(this was Horde).

Also remember; the Hordes real back story, before Thrall, is that of invaders trying to exterminate all life. And don't give me that demon crap, because they kept trying to do it even after Doomhammer took over and booted the Warlocks from command. He was doing it for himself and the orcs, not the demons.

The Horde cannot retaliate, as they are and forever will be an invading army. You cant claim the victim when you threw the first punch in your own attempted genocidal rampage.
Why cant we all just get along?
10/27/2011 10:44 PMPosted by Stiffkix
Why cant we all just get along?


If Sylvanas dies, I would be more than happy to live peacefully with the rest of the Horde. But they don't seem to want to. =(
10/27/2011 05:41 PMPosted by Vetruvius
Perfectly said. Make every Blizzard employee read this please.

If you want Blizzard to see it, either quote it in this thread and respond to the post. Explain why you agree/disagree and what you identified with. (while i'm not a fan of quoting long posts myself, having it appear in a thread multiple times with different people commenting on it will get the post attention)

Petitions don't do much on WoW forums. Whereas I can almost garuntee Blues will be reading this thread. (yes, in its entirety.)

The best feedback is genuine feedback. Explain why you feel how you feel and it will help Blizzard make better games. (hopefully that you enjoy)
The first pawn on the chess board of what is to be the story for Mists of Pandaria is being moved, and you're angry at whose turn is first? I only offer that maybe there's a little more to the Horde and Alliance story lines in Mists than an Alliance town being leveled... like the entire expansion story you don't know about yet. ;)


That's great and all, but the Horde has been making their move for the entirety of this expansion.

Does the Alliance even get a turn?
Oh look, extended post cap.

I really hope Jaina drops the peace crap and starts kicking !@#. It ain't Thrall's Horde anymore sugar.

And I'm willing to be that the Alliance kicks some serious !@# during MoP.
Link to original thread:

<a href="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3424905293">http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3424905293</a>

Original Post:

So much for Alliance not being shafted constantly. More blatant horde favoritism in the 4.4 patch

http://www.scrollsoflore.com/forums/showpost.php?p=368927&postcount=43


Horde attacks Theramore, which is destroyed.

Metzan lied.


Continue the discusson here...


Okay....My 2 Cents! QQ moar. The allies will down the horde eventually. Were just biding our time.

Varian is now possesed by Lo'gosh
Genn is a beastie.
Jaina is going to start kicking nass and taking lames.
Mal is the hero in FL, hyjal, Darkshore, well...mostly Azeroth.
Tyrande is supposed to get new armor soon saw a pics of her on WoWpedia with new armor that looks neet.
The Dwarves are more united then they have ever been...though some hostilities remain.
Gelbin Mekatorque killed his rival and is now Makeing More Awesome mechanisms for the Allies.
Velen is make stronger ties with the alliance by teaching Varians son Anduin the meaning and ways of the light.


Soon We WILL wash over the horde with such vigor....that they wont know what hit them.

STAY STRONG MY BELOVED ALLIES!!!! Our Day will COME!!!!!!

GLORY TO THE ALLIANCE!!!!! LONG LIVE KING WRYNN!!!!!
10/27/2011 08:50 PMPosted by Tíxy
Alleria wanted to see every orc dead.


Cenarius was killed defending his forest against orcs. The son of the man who killed is burning down his forest. He is neutral.

This is what you call plot armor. It doesn't matter if it makes sense, they aren't going to give the alliance Alleria or anyone else unless they are neutral. Or, like Dannath, if they don't actually include them doing anything in the story.
First thing: I understand why nobody likes Garrosh that much. He's a warmongering fool at times, and he has made enemies of many of his allies. However, have you ever followed the questline for Horde in Stonetalon? Garrosh is awesome right at the end; one of the best Horde questlines there is in my opinion. Also, his reaction to Sylvanas' activities with the val'kyr in early Silverpine inspired some more thought. My conclusion? I don't hate him like I used to; the guy knows how to get angry at the right things.
Second thing: Why do people hate the horde so much? Someone earlier said that anyone who thinks the horde is cool is immature and unintelligent. The horde's awesome! While they're not always nice, they have an awesome backstory with Thrall, along with their shamanistic origins and their tendency to take the brunt of all of the Alliance's crap. Think about this; out of bias and past conflict, the alliance has tried to wipe out the forsaken after they regained free will, tried to destroy the new horde after Thrall's offers of lasting peace and trade agreements, and has sought nothing but war since then. After that (and more), the Horde has simply chosen to start retaliating.
I'm not asking you to like the horde instantly, but stop acting like the Alliance is always taking the brunt of things, and that horde retaliation is unfair.


Alliance never tried to wipe out the forsaken, they actually allied with them and got stabbed in the back for upholding their end of the deal.

They never tried to destroy the horde after Thrall offered peace. Thrall didn't offer peace until Jaina sacrificed her father. The peace was broken in Wrath because of Forsaken traitors and Horde warriors attacking Alliance from behind while they were fighting Undead. So Horde broke that not Alliance.

And they have not sought nothing but war since then. Varian attended two separate peace meetings with thrall to try to come to an agreement, instead they attempted to assassinate him one time(though this wasn't horde) and enslaved him the first time(this was Horde).

Also remember; the Hordes real back story, before Thrall, is that of invaders trying to exterminate all life. And don't give me that demon crap, because they kept trying to do it even after Doomhammer took over and booted the Warlocks from command. He was doing it for himself and the orcs, not the demons.

The Horde cannot retaliate, as they are and forever will be an invading army. You cant claim the victim when you threw the first punch in your own attempted genocidal rampage.


Garithos =/= the alliance. He was more the prototype Scarlet Crusader.

Wrynn broke off the truce after he was attacked by a half orc in Theramore and instantly remembered why he hated the horde (those comics, and everything in them, sucked).

Wrathgate forsaken =/= the forsaken. They were demon worshiping traitors like Kael'thas's blood elves and the dark iron dwarves in vanilla (demon, evil elemental, whatever).

The horde didn't enslave Wrynn. Some orcs found a guy out in the wilderness, enslaved him, sold him. It was actually Reghar who allowed him to go free. Vereesa was the one who got !@#$ed over.

Doomhammer didn't stop the horde from invading because he knew the horde war machine, when started, couldn't be stopped. He didn't care about whether humans existed or not, he just figured he'd deplete his people's thirst for war on whatever while trying to return the orcs from berserkers into disciplined warriors.
Then he stopped caring once they started losing.



10/27/2011 11:06 PMPosted by Talvisota
The first pawn on the chess board of what is to be the story for Mists of Pandaria is being moved, and you're angry at whose turn is first? I only offer that maybe there's a little more to the Horde and Alliance story lines in Mists than an Alliance town being leveled... like the entire expansion story you don't know about yet. ;)


That's great and all, but the Horde has been making their move for the entirety of this expansion.

Does the Alliance even get a turn?


Yeah, when Wrynn is involved. Usually ends showing us how Wrynn is Garrosh with fatherly love.



Oh look, extended post cap.

I really hope Jaina drops the peace crap and starts kicking !@#. It ain't Thrall's Horde anymore sugar.

And I'm willing to be that the Alliance kicks some serious !@# during MoP.


Maybe, with all of us whining about it. Or maybe they'll throw in a joke in a horde quest chain about how alliance prisoners always whine (before you plague them into new forsaken and put them to work in a mine as slaves).



Link to original thread:

<a href="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3424905293">http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3424905293</a>

Original Post:



Continue the discusson here...


Okay....My 2 Cents! QQ moar. The allies will down the horde eventually. Were just biding our time.

Varian is now possesed by Lo'gosh
Genn is a beastie.
Jaina is going to start kicking nass and taking lames.
Mal is the hero in FL, hyjal, Darkshore, well...mostly Azeroth.
Tyrande is supposed to get new armor soon saw a pics of her on WoWpedia with new armor that looks neet.
The Dwarves are more united then they have ever been...though some hostilities remain.
Gelbin Mekatorque killed his rival and is now Makeing More Awesome mechanisms for the Allies.
Velen is make stronger ties with the alliance by teaching Varians son Anduin the meaning and ways of the light.


Soon We WILL wash over the horde with such vigor....that they wont know what hit them.

STAY STRONG MY BELOVED ALLIES!!!! Our Day will COME!!!!!!

GLORY TO THE ALLIANCE!!!!! LONG LIVE KING WRYNN!!!!!


  • Varian is now possesed by Lo'gosh

  • Nope, he was born the wolf's avatar. Which doesn't really do much for leadership, it just lets him berserk now and then.
  • Genn is a beastie.

  • Genn is also Wrynn's copilot and nothing else.
  • Jaina is going to start kicking nass and taking lames.

  • Doubt it. At best, horde players will free her secretly so she can then disappear and supposedly do something off camera to save the world (giving players a buff in a raid or something). Then die heroically.
  • Mal is the hero in FL, hyjal, Darkshore, well...mostly Azeroth.

  • The only alliance character Metzen likes. He'll never turn against the horde, Metzen's favorite faction!
  • Tyrande is supposed to get new armor soon saw a pics of her on WoWpedia with new armor that looks neet.

  • That's her old armor. For some reason she went from paladin/hunter in Warcraft 3 to priest in WoW.
  • The Dwarves are more united then they have ever been...though some hostilities remain.

  • The majority of the dark iron race are in Twilight's Hammer. Mostly peasants went with Moira, and the council is bickering so much they are described as being unable to even come to decisions on even simple matters like policy.
  • Gelbin Mekatorque killed his rival and is now Makeing More Awesome mechanisms for the Allies.

  • Mekkatorque spared Thermaplugg's life. Thermaplugg just has a robot body entirely below the waist now (although who cares, he's never not in a giant robot anyway). Mekkatorque is STILL trying to retake Gnomeragan, since he doesn't want to just slaughter all infected gnomes in case they can be saved somehow, and the unending sea of troggs haven't stopped yet in all these years. All he's doing is overseeing construction of airships which are never seen.
  • Velen is make stronger ties with the alliance by teaching Varians son Anduin the meaning and ways of the light.

  • That's all Velen does. He's a prophet, he ONLY makes prophesies. He also teaches sometimes. Don't expect anything out of him but exposition and an epilogue.
    10/28/2011 12:26 AMPosted by Grinsom
    Alleria wanted to see every orc dead.


    Cenarius was killed defending his forest against orcs. The son of the man who killed is burning down his forest. He is neutral.

    This is what you call plot armor. It doesn't matter if it makes sense, they aren't going to give the alliance Alleria or anyone else unless they are neutral. Or, like Dannath, if they don't actually include them doing anything in the story.


    That's not plot armor, since he's not neutral to Garrosh: just horde individuals who come to fight, as individuals (not as an army) to fight for his cause.

    Like if in WWII a few Na zi ninjas decided to fight the zombie plague alongside American ones for the Australians even though Australians hate Naz is (work with me here, couldn't come up with a good analogy).
    10/28/2011 12:31 AMPosted by Renue
    That's not plot armor, since he's not neutral to Garrosh: just horde individuals who come to fight


    He's not neutral to the horde, he's just... neutral to the horde. Yeah, sure. Whatevs.

    Alexstraza and the horde? Dragonmaw aren't very friendly to red dragons you know.

    Tirion and Sylvanis? It's really hard to tell the difference between her and the lich king other than how she treats her subjects...

    Malfurion? He's got big problems in dat dar emerald dream I hear. So much that he would just giggle if you launched an attack on darnassus.

    No, I'm pretty sure it's plot armor. Horde can do anything they want in game and there is no way blizzard would ever have a neutral faction turn hostile.
    According to Warchief Metzen's logic, the Alliance killing an orc peon would be just retribution for the Horde burning down an Alliance fortress-city. But you know, whole expansion based on Alliance vs Horde.

    MoP: Metzen's wetdream, a whole expansion where he can have the Horde destroy every Alliance settlement under the sun while the Alliance gives the Horde mild discomfort from their capital cities from which they never freaking move.

    Horde quests in Cata: Garrosh appearing out of nowhere every couple of quests, kicking !@# and taking names, Vol'jin picking fights with the warchief being generally awesome, Sylvanas raising deads and not giving a damn.

    Alliance in Cata: Hur hi giv me more eggs for my cake I'm baking 20 will do or my town got #%%@d by 3 forsaken with wooden sticks, Varian wanted to help but he had to stand in his throne room ordering another solid gold statue of himself, Tyrande is...who cares she hasn't done anything since WC3, the Council of the Three Hammers is bickering over the name of the new street down in the military ward and Malfurion is too busy protecting his tauren friend to do anything about Ashenvale getting #%%@d one tree at a time by a Hordish buzzsaw.

    It's like they want us to play Horde.

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