Theramore in flames: Horde favoritism. pt. 2

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11/04/2011 01:40 AMPosted by Dauzat
Yes stonard is there, but still the lady-general and the alliance by proxy are being more magnanimous than vicous. Their forces have been defeated and killed, the town is being cleared out, we just dont get to see the Horde physically lose their hub.
That's kinda my point.

When we lose, things change to make sure we know we lose.
When we win, nothing happens.


11/04/2011 01:40 AMPosted by Dauzat
Northwatch hold was always friendly toward Alliance players, but it was ex-Kul'tiras marines and soldiers who manned it. There was no interaction as a player with the town. Now we break the siege on the town, and defeat the opposing general. Horde lose.
Horde lose what? A clan created specifically for that quest? There's no Horde player involvement in the battle for Northwatch. There isn't even any significant Horde lore involvement (see Silverpine for example).

You know what would be fair. If the Orc/Troll starting zone story featured an invasion by Kul'tiras marines from Northwatch. Then, Garrosh himself comes in with a fleet and gets his !@# handed to him via Alliance only quests.

Then maybe the Horde would understand how BS it is that Worgen have to roll Forsaken to find out how the Battle for Gilneas ended.


11/04/2011 01:40 AMPosted by Dauzat
Bael Modan was never an Alliance base pre 4.0, it was a Dwarf excavation camp on Titan ruins. The base does look impressive now though, and alliance seem to get here chronologically before the horde infiltrate. We defeat the massive Tauren hunter party only to miss the sabotage going on in the backround. Horde and Alliance lose.
Alliance lose more. Not only more significant area, but the quests are specifically designed to hammer it in to the Alliance that they just got owned.
"When we lose, things change to make sure we know we lose.
When we win, nothing happens."

After you defend Splintertree Post as Horde, and break the siege, and the event is over and the cool phase is over and done with. You'll notice the Night eleven siege is still going on. The phase stuff swings both ways. Its a cool mechanic, but it not always concurrent on either faction.

"Horde lose what? A clan created specifically for that quest? There's no Horde player involvement in the battle for Northwatch. There isn't even any significant Horde lore involvement (see Silverpine for example)."

Stuff like this also swings both ways: Horde have to attack some Thundermar dwarf folks in Twilight highlands, alliance have no interaction with those particular thundermar, but they are there for the Horde to claim victory over.

"You know what would be fair. If the Orc/Troll starting zone story featured an invasion by Kul'tiras marines from Northwatch. Then, Garrosh himself comes in with a fleet and gets his !@# handed to him via Alliance only quests."

I have to say, I have never played the Worgen starting zone, nor cared to: but im sure the impact of losing Gil'neas would of hurt more if it was an Alliance town to begin with. Gil'neas was isolated and did not care to help or fight for anyone else untill they where defeated by the Forsaken and recruited through the Night Elfs.


"Alliance lose more. Not only more significant area, but the quests are specifically designed to hammer it in to the Alliance that they just got owned. "

Bael Modan was 1 Barrack. It sure did look more impressive than the mine we collapsed, but shared about as much importance.




11/04/2011 02:18 AMPosted by Dauzat
After you defend Splintertree Post as Horde, and break the siege, and the event is over and the cool phase is over and done with. You'll notice the Night eleven siege is still going on. The phase stuff swings both ways. Its a cool mechanic, but it not always concurrent on either faction
It swings our way once. It swings their way EVERY OTHER TIME.

11/04/2011 02:18 AMPosted by Dauzat
I have to say, I have never played the Worgen starting zone, nor cared to: but im sure the impact of losing Gil'neas would of hurt more if it was an Alliance town to begin with. Gil'neas was isolated and did not care to help or fight for anyone else untill they where defeated by the Forsaken and recruited through the Night Elfs.


That has nothing to do with anything. Worgen players don't get to find out how their own story ends unless they reroll Horde.

11/04/2011 02:18 AMPosted by Dauzat
Bael Modan was 1 Barrack. It sure did look more impressive than the mine we collapsed, but shared about as much importance.
Not only is this completely untrue, it completely misses my point.

Get back to me when the Horde players have to take a quest that puts them in the middle of their exploding mine.
Bael is 1 barrack in a mountain

The Worgen thing isn't necessarily an alliance thing was the point I was getting at.

"It swings our way once. It swings their way EVERY OTHER TIME."

: /
11/04/2011 02:31 AMPosted by Dauzat
Bael is 1 barrack in a mountain


That's selling Bael Modan ridiculously short.

It's the size of Aerie Peak or the Angor Fortess or Dun Garok, and on top of that it was the first dwarven outpost established on another continet. It's a major installation.

Calling it 1 barrack is also mistaken, it has a number of structures to it:

http://media.photobucket.com/image/bael+modan+/thephoenix667/World%20of%20Warcraft/BaelModan.jpg
249 pages of alliance tears...delicious
11/04/2011 03:28 AMPosted by Goozin
249 pages of alliance tears...delicious


And 249 pages of people like you who are so wrapped up in "For the Horde!" pride that you mock a problem that Blizzard has openly acknowledged exists. The whole reason for this thread is the collective WTF to Blue saying (paraphrased) "Yeah, we kind of let the Alliance players down in CATA, but don't worry that's going to change in MOP. We've got this great story starting with Theramore getting blown up."

I got news for you, our subscription money is just as important to Blizzard as yours. If 10% of the current Alliance players decide they're not being entertained in the current game and leave, then that's a 5% total reduction in Blizzard's revenue. Maybe that's the salary for few art guys, or a few CSM's, or a programming team. That's a reduction in resources which will ultimately affect YOU.
Wow. 5000 posts. I certainly hope Blizzard is paying attention. This issue isn't going away.
I suggest that Blizzard rolls another leak in the next week about something HUGE for Alliance victory and it be something IN GAME. Not something in a novel/comic/quest we never see. And how about next Blizzcon you not focus on WoW and something like Starcraft or Diablo. No more L90ETC
I suggest that Blizzard rolls another leak in the next week about something HUGE for Alliance victory and it be something IN GAME.

It's not that easy.

The lore is probably already set for everything on the board post-4.3 and through Mists of Panadaria. I doubt there's anything really in it specifically for Alliance other than more running away, losing, and getting killed.
I suggest that Blizzard rolls another leak in the next week about something HUGE for Alliance victory and it be something IN GAME.

It's not that easy.

The lore is probably already set for everything on the board post-4.3 and through Mists of Panadaria. I doubt there's anything really in it specifically for Alliance other than more running away, losing, and getting killed.


Then I will lose my faith in this game. I was going to keep my sub and play MoP while playing SWTOR, but if this is how my gameplay will go for MoP.. Then I will just play only SWTOR.
I like vol'jin, actually....

kill someone else.


Exactly why he needs to get killed off. What would be the point killing off a character no one cares about?

Killing off a character people LIKE creates anger. Makes perfect sense in an expansion that is based around war.
I like vol'jin, actually....

kill someone else.


Exactly why he needs to get killed off. What would be the point killing off a character no one cares about?

Killing off a character people LIKE creates anger. Makes perfect sense in an expansion that is based around war.


We already lost Cairne at the start of this mess in terms of a beloved leader. Alliance can have Garrosh and Sylvanas but lay off Vol'jin.
Why is everyone about killing of a Horde leader? Personally I thought the character changes of Cata were designed to give us a new composition of leaders on each side.

Horde:
Lets just be honest here hordies, your leadership right now is soooo very weak, and if Blizzard doesn't play on that in MoP then im gonna be really disappointed. You have Garrosh who has the entire horde playerbase asking for his head on a silver platter, which I think should play into the storyline as people are not happy with his choices. You have Baine who many people have called the newbie leader which again cant instill much faith. You have a crazy, psycho undead leader in Slyvannas who is actively turning fallen soldiers into undead which can work on any living being including the horde, so lets be honest here she will eventually grow tired of being a lapdog to the orcs. So with a horde that is breaking apart in my opinion if you guys manage to really be overly successful in MoP I will be surprised.

Alliance:
Ok so for the Alliance storywise our leaders have not done much in Cata. However no one can doubt aside from the council of three hammers that the Alliance is extremely solid. Blizzard has already promised that Varian will get more spotlight in MoP. I'm hoping that he will be leading the movement into Pandaria, because his son has proven to be able to run Stormwind I think, at least in a steward kinda way. So I forsee that when Theramore gets destroyed we will be moving with Jaina and Varian into Pandaria. Ill be damned though if Blizzard tries to make Jaina a neutral character. It is time she just give up the farce that the Horde support her in anyway.




I did do the Horde side back in Vanilla. Horde get a lot of quests to kill Alliance friendly NPCs. So?


Did you not read the article at all we lost the guestgiver who originally started all those attacks back in vanilla during the questchain.

We win but the Horde are still attacking it after we win. No real victory.

The alliance also win at northwatch hold along the coast of the southern barrens.


We push the Horde out of Northwatch but they're still attacking it after we win. No real victory for us.
11/04/2011 06:17 AMPosted by Iferil
249 pages of alliance tears...delicious


And 249 pages of people like you who are so wrapped up in "For the Horde!" pride that you mock a problem that Blizzard has openly acknowledged exists. The whole reason for this thread is the collective WTF to Blue saying (paraphrased) "Yeah, we kind of let the Alliance players down in CATA, but don't worry that's going to change in MOP. We've got this great story starting with Theramore getting blown up."

I got news for you, our subscription money is just as important to Blizzard as yours. If 10% of the current Alliance players decide they're not being entertained in the current game and leave, then that's a 5% total reduction in Blizzard's revenue. Maybe that's the salary for few art guys, or a few CSM's, or a programming team. That's a reduction in resources which will ultimately affect YOU.


Horde has issues too, some serious political issues...
So yea, for the sake that both faction has its own issues, get over yourself.
I suggest that Blizzard rolls another leak in the next week about something HUGE for Alliance victory and it be something IN GAME.

It's not that easy.

The lore is probably already set for everything on the board post-4.3 and through Mists of Panadaria. I doubt there's anything really in it specifically for Alliance other than more running away, losing, and getting killed.


I had been thinking that the lore was set as well. But there are several instances mentioned where Blizz changed/chopped something for time constraints. The two that jump to mind are the Alliance scene going to Twilight Highlands and the living arrangements of the Worgen.

So it's not entirely unprecedented for Blizz to change things at the last second, even if other times has been because they ran out of time. Of course, if they were to take any Alliance loss and change it with the same skill that they handled those edited out bits, we may be just as worse off.
I love how most the horde here try and cite Alliance favortism in Vanilla but if you actually played WC2 and WC3 it made perfect sense. The horde were just starting so logically would have smaller cities and less territory. The game followed a natural development in BC and even WOTLK. IMO you could argue either way blizz played favorites because both sides had good development.

The only thing I've ever disagreed story wise with was the way blizzard handled Cata. While in a game with growing popularity they needed to even the questing territory out. They improved the horde questing experience and imo decreased the alliance questing experience. I wouldn't be so opposed to the idea of Theramore being destroyed if blizz had handled ANY of the territories that alliance still had in Cata better. You literally logged in read the patch notes as Alliance and that was the only way you found out what we lost, no quests nothing about it.

We literally have nothing to instill faction pride and it's quite clear after having leveled another toon on the alliance to 60 they did it on purpose. The horde quest chain sought to instill pride and train their future warriors. The alliance questing experience focuses almost entirely on loss, pop references, and playing clean up duty ... ridiculous. There is literally more Alliance lore on the horde side than the Alliance side.

Why destroy Sentinel Hill in Westfall?
Why focus so much on loss in Redridge?
Why did we liberate Ashenvale only to find out there is no phasing?
Why did the stormgarde phasing fail so bad?
Why did Alliance twilight Highlands intro get cut and the horde kept?
Why do all of our heroes turn to neutral factions and never return yet the second a horde hero goes neutral he is immediately said to be returning to the horde by blizzard?
Why is Danath Trollbane still in Outlands?
Why is Khadgar still in outlands?
Why did Alliance never get to see what happened in Gilneas?
Why do I have to play horde to find out?
Why did Alliance fight so hard at Andorhal then just get told "Sorry you lost we have to pull back"?
Why is Tirion ignoring the forsaken's use of the plague?

The reason people are so mad now is that the CM said "The first piece on the chess board is being made" ... Really I kind of thought that happened at maybe the Wrath gate or Howling fjord? Oh Cata maybe ... how bout Gilneas, Hillsbrad, Alterac, Arathi, Ashenvale, Southshore, Southern Barrens. Why do the Alliance need to be motivated into war when it appears to me we're already at war on every front? This is your own fault blizzard, the quest development for the 1-60 alliance content is pathetic and your own fault. Stop trying to punish one faction cause of the way your developers completely mishandled the resources at their disposal. Destroy a Horde town, Alliance has already lost enough this expansion it's time we actually get some pride back and destroy or take something instead of the other way around.

Sorry blizz but the only way you are restoring my faith at this point is by:
Returning Danath Trollbane to Stormgarde and restoring the wall.
Returning Khadgar to the Alliance.
Having Tirion start to attack the forsaken or at least warn them.
Returning Alleria and Turalyon to the Alliance as ALLIANCE and not neutral.
Having Cenarius start to attack horde in ashenvale.
Having Malfurion start to attack horde.
Giving Tyrande her battle armor back.
Improving alliance phasing, ie ashenvale and stormgarde.

Working on a real Alliance slogan I've made plenty of suggestions.
LONG LIVE THE LION
STAND PROUD LIONS OF AZEROTH
THROUGH HONOR/VALOR WE THRIVE

There is a reason Tor developers told the community they would never commit faction biased and they were looking directly at you Blizzard. People are getting concerned and other companies are feeding on that. You have a chance to correct your mistakes before it's to late. So stop doing a half !@# job on the Alliance and do something about it! Otherwise you will lose more subscriptions.

TL;DR: If you can't read this you probably shouldn't be in this thread.

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