VP Changes to 4.3 PTR

General Discussion
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I think Valor should offer the same iLevel as LFR. Both LFR and Valor should be gear that you can use to get into an organized Raid IMO.
And then you have people like me, who have been raiding heroic firelands since the start of the expansion. Only to see no real tank loot drop. No shield No weapon No boots. Not even the boe ring.

I dislike further steps towards making 'everything rng' Certain guilds will get screwed out of progression due to simple 'rng' making the same loot drop over and over again.

Like our guild. that DE 90% of our loot every single week. Lucky to get 1-2 items for a person every month.

And why the hell do we always get plate healing gear, when theres only 1 spec/class that can use it. While we don't even have a holy pally? Oh the irony.

At least there are teir tokens.... I suppose.
why not do away with VP altogether and have useful (as in for the characters that are in the raid or dungeon party) pieces drop from all the bosses? that could mean increasing the loot tables (perhaps the early boss rewards) to account for the VP items and using technology to take into account classes/roles in the party and drop items that are helpful. that would be a bigger incentive to get into dungeons than much of what we get today deing so much stuff but still folks without 4 piece sets or trinkets, etc.
I like this change. I say that as a non-raiding casual myself. I miss the days when you knew someone with raid gear was... You guessed it, a raider. When I buy tier with points, it just doesn't feel like an accomplishment. I think people are only interested in what's convenient, not what makes the game interesting to play. Ergo, most people in this thread don't really know what they want-- they just think they do.

People who don't raid don't need raid gear. Period, the end. Give them other goals to aspire to.
11/17/2011 09:12 AMPosted by Eridan
and as Raid Finder will allow for just about anyone to get a chance to kill bosses

I think you may be vastly overestimating how well the Raid Finder is going to work when you're making these plans. Right now it mostly seems to be allowing people to wipe on Morchok once or twice before the calls of "U ALL BADS" and the ragequits begin.

I was play testing the raid finder the other day and the group kept getting people that either had no idea what was going on and pulling the boss or were intentionally pulling the boss (I suspect because "they where getting bored"). So, as novel a thought as raid finder is, it has created a mechanic in the game to allow jerks or *ssholes to join raids who are less interested in downing bosses and more interested in wiping raids for their own entertainment. And most players who have been playing for a while know what I mean. You get that player who waits for the pull then decides to leave group or that player that heckles other players until they get a group kick; and for no other reason then they want to hassle others. Accept now instead of being a pug raid or a random dungeon it is in a 25 random raid. And player turn over just means the skilled players who want to be there and progress have to deal with more crap. Mind you, I only plan on using raid finder to fill in the nights that I get bored, but still nothing ruins a night then spending 3 hours and having nothing to show for it but wipe after wipe and a huge repair bill.
Do people actually understand this change? have they read the Original post?

What this change means.

1. Raiders cannot cap VP from raiding T13 alone.

2. Non - raiders can cap from doing dungeons alone.

3. those who do LFR only can get half of the cap from the LFR alone.

What does this mean?

Raiders will either have do any of the following

1 Random dungeon
1 Random LFR
2 Previous tier bosses.

I honestly fail to see why lower level content like dungeons is rewarded a higher amount of currency that awards raid level gear, especially considering even heroic DS does not offer superior items to the VP vendor for some slots. For example cloaks and necks for some classes.

I have no problem with non - raiders capping (well I do but I will settle at the risk of the uniformed calling me elitist), however I fail to see why those who lift themselves up to the level of completing DS should not be rewarded to the same level as Dungeon - runner in the VP currency.
11/23/2011 09:55 AMPosted by Calvín
Why do people who raid need raid gear seeing as how bosses get downed before anyone ever has a single piece of it?

Actually this is wrong, especially for heroic mode bosses. You may not need raid level gear for the beginning bosses but your certainly do for later bosses.
i completely agree for someone who only gets to play every other month cause of work im always playin catch up and the vp gear helped with that other than the cap was too low for me to really get much of it before i was gone again
11/17/2011 09:04 AMPosted by Ackis
Any change to the cap of VP you can get?

Was this ever answered? Or is it still 980, forcing raiders into 5mans? (for the first few weeks)
So, after I read this for the second time on MMO, I made a BiS gear list for the next patch using their loot tables/VP tables and guess what? Of the 16 equipable slots, 9 of them are from valor points. Oh, and lets not forget the fact that there are no cloak drops from bosses for anyone and only a +spi neck piece drop.

My question is why is Blizzard doing this when they said they wanted to stress that VP ISN'T important?! Is it because as a tank, I'll now have to queue at least twice a week, probably more since I doubt my guild will down all the bosses from the first week on? And if I VP cap every week, it's still going to take me 13 weeks to get all my BiS gear now!

So Blizzard (or someone who is smarter than me) is this a way for me to HAVE to queue as a tank, or am I just being paranoid?

Edit: I wanted to point out that I MORE than agree with T13 only dropping from bosses, so no I'm not saying I should be able to buy that with VP.
Wow, I was looking forward to leveling this guy up to raid and all that. Now I find out only one piece per 10 man boss? Puts a pretty large damper. I can't raid 25s as my computer can't handle it. Upgrading is not an option now or in the foreseeable future.

Guess I'll stick to PVP.
We want to try to match the lower desire for VP with a slightly slower acquisition rate.

Oh go F**K yourself. This... THIS is EXACTLY why you are losing subscribers. We don't need a "slower acquisition rate". I've been working non-stop on only two toons since cata came out. Really only one of them, my holy priest. I'm a casual gamer who puts in 10 or so hours a week (which is something I don't consider casual). Was I able to max out my valor gear before 4.3 hit? No. Did I get to see Ragnaros? No. Not even normal let alone heroic. In fact, no heroic raid bosses.

What is the point of slower acquisition rate? Just a weekly limit/penalty on players such as

Also, I find playing a variety of alts part of the fun of this game. But currently the weekly limits mean that NONE of them will see end-game content. Nice.

And before all the elitist jerks start the "you just want free gear". (I worked for all mine anyways.) Tell me this... why do you care at ALL if people are getting gear they didn't "earn" by your standards? You don't want to play with them don't invite them. They have gear and suck? vote to kick. But overall, players with better gear would allow players such as myself to see the end-game content that we are ALL paying for. Somebody getting something, anything, in this game does not stop you from obtaining your goals too. It is not a zero-sum game; get over it. Oh, maybe your self-worth derives from being "better" than others. Good luck with that when the next expansion targets WoW to 8 year olds.

So why the weekly limits? I'll tell you why. I'll tell you what Blizzard refuses to acknowledge. Blizzard wants MONEY. period. They want you to take forever to see end-game content so that you stay subscribed in the hopes of seeing it. When did raid locks and limits go in? just about the time subscriptions started falling.

Blizzard, just allow us to create user created content and all your subscription problems go away. Don't worry about quality control. Just give us a method to select user created instances and a method to rate them ourselves. We will take care of the rest and stay subscribed far, far longer than your limited resources of content developers can muster.

I am sick and tired of being an exceptional player who is always behind in content because I can't raid three nights a week. Blizzard, if you like, you can keep catering to the uber-raiding guilds. I suspect they will be your last 100,000 subscribers after the rest of us have left.
On the one hand (valor), you're saying - no guys you have to actually do the highest content in order to get the highest rewards. On the other hand (conquest), you're saying - no guys you don't have to do the highest content - just spam random battlegrounds and brute force your way to the highest gear.

This quoted post many times over, says what I think.

"Progression" as you can call it, was removed from arena rewards long ago with the 1400 for gloves, 1800(?) for weapon, etc. They are still in place for raiding; you can still get halfway through a raid and get good gear, while the best is waiting at the final few bosses for you to rise to the challenge. ... seriously mixed signals ...

I wanted to quote this comment too, to reiterate their sentiment.

I miss the days when you knew someone with raid gear was... You guessed it, a raider. When I buy tier with points, it just doesn't feel like an accomplishment
11/22/2011 01:56 PMPosted by Hexxys
People who don't raid don't need raid gear. Period, the end. Give them other goals to aspire to.

And in the absence of those other goals?

I like your idea, but the only real form of character progression that has been implemented in WoW is in gear. Every PvE-playing character needs raid gear. Only getting tier gear from raiding is poor gameplay design unless those nebulous 'other goals' are implemented.

So, what do you think those 'other goals' might be? Have you put any thought into that, or was it just a bad way to shut down an argument you don't want to have?

11/28/2011 01:33 AMPosted by Muju
I miss the days when you knew someone with raid gear was... You guessed it, a raider. When I buy tier with points, it just doesn't feel like an accomplishment

Yeah, part of me misses the days when you had to program your own games into the computer, but I'm not silly enough to think that was good then. It was merely a simpler time in my life and people get nostalgic for simpler times.

If someone has completed the heroic modes, they've really accomplished something. If you need to advertise an accomplishment after the initial flush has worn off, then you're making up for some lack in yourself and should probably think about why this is important to you.

Since raiding has become more mainstream, tier gear isn't even that special these days anyway. Using it as a feat of playing accomplishment makes you one of many thousands on your server alone. It must be hard to feel special wearing the exact same gear as hordes of others.

On top of that, my having tier gear from VP does not invalidate your achievement of having the same gear from raiding. You had all the experiences, all the fun that I did not, and most likely got the gear much faster than my drip-fed VP.

Until we've got some other form of character progression, gear is important. Tier gear should be available from VP until that point. At the absolute minimum, the previous tier's full set should always be available for VP. No-one can be threatened by that, surely, and raiders get to strut up and down like peacocks for months on end, making them very happy indeed.

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