4.3 Raid Finder Loot Rules

General Discussion
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11/24/2011 03:04 PMPosted by Vyneda
They'll be able to roll on spirit plate but cant Need+ roll for it. Unless they queued up as a healer and are dpsing 0-o


But we're working under the assumption that Blizzard needed to allow all players in the DPS role to be able to roll Need+ on spirit items because of those classes that use spirit as a DPS stat.

That's of course excluding the classes that already can't roll on caster gear under the current system.

Paladins, mages, and warlocks are currently able to roll on spirit gear. Under this Need+ system, if all DPS has to be included in order to have the roll available to the hybrid classes, tha includes ret paladins.


The difference with Paladins, versus the other three healer classes, is that there is no "caster DPS" Paladin spec (inb4 Exo-spamming Holy, that's still considered a Healer spec). With the other three, the spirit-hit conversion in their caster DPS tree means that spirit is a DPS stat for them, just like the intellect.

Also, Mages and Warlocks will not be able to roll Need+ on spirit gear under these new rules. The only reason they can now, is that the system is only checking primary stat (str/agil/int) and weapon/armor specialization by class.
11/24/2011 03:10 PMPosted by Waraila
Ret paladins don't use spirit in their dps rotations though. So only healing paladins for example will be able to get the bonus on spirit plate. Of course the normal armour restrictions will be in place as well...


Neither do mages or warlocks.

If this system does not differentiate between classes, and all DPS specs needed to have Need+ on spirit gear in order for the balance druids, elemental shaman, and shadow priests to have that priority, then that means that mages, warlocks, and ret paladins will get the Need+ on spirit gear as well. They all meet the requirement for a) being able to currently roll on gear that has spirit, and b) being flagged as a DPS role.

If the system does differentiate between class, then this won't be the case, I assume.
The difference with Paladins, versus the other three healer classes, is that there is no "caster DPS" Paladin spec (inb4 Exo-spamming Holy, that's still considered a Healer spec). With the other three, the spirit-hit conversion in their caster DPS tree means that spirit is a DPS stat for them, just like the intellect.

Also, Mages and Warlocks will not be able to roll Need+ on spirit gear under these new rules. The only reason they can now, is that the system is only checking primary stat (str/agil/int) and weapon/armor specialization by class.


I understand that. And this is what I initially thought as well, until the point was brought up that all players in the tank role will be able to roll Need+ on agility trinkets because it was necessary in order for druids to roll on them.

I'm not saying that this is the way it works. I sure as heck hope it isn't. But if it is, then the same thing applies to DPS specs being able to have priority on spirit gear because it was necessary for the hybrid specs to have access.
If I understand it correctly, only holy paladins will get the need+ on spirit plate, otherwise the entire need+ system would be worthless in that everyone would get the need+ roll on all gear that their class could use. There wouldn't be any point to the need+ roll in a DK could get the need+ roll on spirit plate due to all dps being able to get the need+ roll on spirit gear, so shamans, druids, and priests could roll on it for spirit -> hit.

The only thing I'm wondering about is if i'll have a chance of getting cloth that has haste and mastery on it or if only healers would get the need+ on it due to it not having hit on it.
11/24/2011 01:49 AMPosted by Arctous
Also, another theoretical drop: A two-handed strength weapon with Crit and Mastery. Are Blood DKs given even rolls with DPS on this item?


Yes. their is a post on ptr that says dk's also get even rolls on agi polearms.

Tank stats are parry and dodge, Mastery is not a tank stat.
11/24/2011 03:20 PMPosted by Nnamroc
There wouldn't be any point to the need+ roll in a DK could get the need+ roll on spirit plate due to all dps being able to get the need+ roll on spirit gear, so shamans, druids, and priests could roll on it for spirit -> hit.


No, because Death Knights cannot currently roll need on Intellect plate. Neither can warriors. Paladins can.

In regards to generic caster cloth, I assume healers will get the plus on gear with no hit, and DPS will get the plus on gear with no spirit. Unless, as I've been pondering above, DPS will get the plus on spirit gear as well.

See, it doesn't make sense to me, which is why I don't think it will work this way. I think that the Need+ will distinguish between classes.
The problem is the system doesn't conform in any particular direction. Priests are like the druid and shaman in that spirit helps them heal AND dps, but then we have the Pally healer that is left completely out. Druid and Shaman are the only Leather and Mail classes that use caster stats at all, so it makes some sense that all caster stats can benefit them to streamline itemization, but then we have a variety of cloth classes, and only one out of seven DPS specs among them has any use for spirit.


Initially shadow priests did not have the spirit ->hit talent. Only shaman and druids. But shadow priests qq'ed in beta that this would limit their gearing options and that if they had they could use their healing sets so it was added. Its been a mess ever since.
Ok, but if it still is just going by the current loot rules, then it would still be alot of work for little reward (mainly tanking gear only going to tanks). So i still doubt ret pallies will need+ on spirit plate. Just like i doubt mages/warlocks will get need+ on spirit gear.

Oh, and Mate brings up another thought on this, Bashiok said nothing at all about weapons. Do they fall in with the armor loot roles, or does everyone just get a even shot at a weapon they can use?
Will it be able to detect if the person already has the specific item? Like with the holiday dungeons you are not able to roll on an item if you have it already.
11/24/2011 02:35 PMPosted by Sorcies
It's a lost cause, he's trolling... or just too damn stupid to understand simple english but I'm going with trolling.


He is pretending that the system is flawed in a attempt to get the whole thing reverted to the current need/greed rules of lfd.
Hackur, if you bothered to read all of bashiok's post you would have read that there is going to be alot of overlapping gear in this patch so all classes that can use agi leather will get the need+ on leather gear, thus keeping it even. The only proplem you would have is with boomkins in that they will also get the need+ on agi leather.
11/24/2011 03:39 PMPosted by Hackur
it wont work due to the fact there will be too many loot disputes caused when the bonus allows druids to take all the leather with agility away from rogues or when ret pallys can grab up dps plate and leave DKs/Warriors losing rolls since under their new rule pallys can roll on DPS plate whether it has spirit or not but Warrior/DKs wont be allowed to roll simply due to the fact it has spirit its setting up a bad loot distribution process


Ok now you're just trolling people have explained this multiple times. Rogues,Bears, and cats all get the bonus. As for the other things you mentioned those have been explained too.

Seriously just stop posting here.
Damn, I was suckered in, I didn't read all of his post. Spirit dps plate? Damn it, I feel bad for being suckered in to troll of his low quality. I just thought he truely was that stupid. I shall slap myself now.
11/24/2011 04:10 PMPosted by Pul
So a Frost DK (like me) gets a role bonus on say a mage chest?.....so you can still ninja for profit, great....


uh, no. They can differentiate between classes, so no, a plate cant ninja a cloth dps.
11/24/2011 03:39 PMPosted by Hackur
it wont work due to the fact there will be too many loot disputes caused when the bonus allows druids to take all the leather with agility away from rogues or when ret pallys can grab up dps plate and leave DKs/Warriors losing rolls since under their new rule pallys can roll on DPS plate whether it has spirit or not but Warrior/DKs wont be allowed to roll simply due to the fact it has spirit its setting up a bad loot distribution process


Are you TRYING to get yourself banned? By posting the same BS every page or two, you really are pushing it.
*facepalm*

I'm almost embarrassed to read half of these posts. Everyone needs to calm down. Take time to read the blue post before you start slapping your butthurt pride all over your keyboards.

The loot system will restrict certain players from using certain items with useless stats on them. +hit for healers is useless. This does not mean that mages and locks can only roll on +hit items. Healers can roll on items with int/stam/mast/haste, because they are all useful stats for a healer. That doesn't mean that dps classes won't get a bonus on their rolls for that item as well. You will have the exact same or better chance at loot as you would have without this system. Mostly better since offspec won't be able to compete with you.

I love the offspec change. It was totally necessary. Sure, it means you can't get dps gear by healing a raid. That is how it should be. The pure dps classes were all hurting.

Ala hunter forums: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3595573842

The queue times for dps are bad. Period. It sucks. Deal with it. Hybrid classes shouldn't be better off than pure dps classes just because they can use a different spec. That was a huge imbalance. I LOVE this fix.

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