The Well of EternaLoreMangling

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The funny thing is that there's an Achievement from WoE called "That's not canon!".

Dead serious.
i agree. the neltherion model was out of place.
Protip: At the point in time that the Well of Eternity takes place, Deathwing has already used the Dragon Soul, been torn apart by it, and had plates grafted on to him.

But hey, I'm sure you knew that, being a huge lore nerd and all <3
There was no Brox!

/sob
It's amazing what a good job of lore they did in Well of Eternity. Even down to the destroyed tower of Azshara's Palace, as mentioned in the "War of the Ancients" trilogy. This is the sort of thing that restores my faith in Blizzard as storytellers.

I couldn't disagree with the OP more.
11/29/2011 11:21 PMPosted by Vanarela
Well of Eternity is the best of the three, I think. O_O


Thank you. I've always liked Illidan, but now....I want to bear his half night elf children. Lots of them.

"So many demons........so little time..."
Protip: At the point in time that the Well of Eternity takes place, Deathwing has already used the Dragon Soul, been torn apart by it, and had plates grafted on to him.

But hey, I'm sure you knew that, being a huge lore nerd and all <3


He had a few fissures in his body that had a couple plates placed over them. Not a completely decimated body and an adamantite lower jaw.

But hey, I'm sure such distinctions are beyond you, not being interested in lore at all <3
11/29/2011 11:19 PMPosted by Daystar
The accent Tyrande has was bad.


When isolated as a sound file, absolutely. She sounds... different. Almost troll like. In the actual instance I found it tolerable for some reason. Either it is growing on me, or the sounds blended together well.

11/29/2011 11:19 PMPosted by Daystar
The explicitly sinister Illidan, despite this being before he absorbed the skull of Guldan, and even before he was imprisoned and chained for 10,000 years, is worse.


I don't think he was that sinister. He was fighting to save his people, and was not afraid of doing a little magical exploration to fight fire with fire. Tyrande was a bit shocked, but this was hardly action of extreme corruption.

The pre-Deathwing Neltharion model complete with body ruptures and metallic jaw/plates is just laugh-out-loud ridiculous.

They could have just used a generic black dragon model and it would have been less out of place. This is akin to if we'd gone to Culling of Stratholme, and instead of the unique Arthas-as-paladin model we found there, they just used the Lich King, complete with Frostmourne for weapon.


You know what, you are absolutely right.

I swear, every time I think I'm over caring about the lore of this game, Blizzard finds a new low to reach in breaking my sense of immersion. One of the dungeons i was looking forward to the most turns out to be one I can barely stomach.


It was amazingly well done, and really gave me the feeling of how terrifying that time period must have been. The scenery was beautiful, the music was some of the best ever for just a regular dungeon, and the models for everyone but Neltharion were pretty decent. If they had fixed Nelth (which they still can), I would probably say it was one of the best dungeons ever.
The accent Tyrande has was bad.

The explicitly sinister Illidan, despite this being before he absorbed the skull of Guldan, and even before he was imprisoned and chained for 10,000 years, is worse.

The pre-Deathwing Neltharion model complete with body ruptures and metallic jaw/plates is just laugh-out-loud ridiculous.

They could have just used a generic black dragon model and it would have been less out of place. This is akin to if we'd gone to Culling of Stratholme, and instead of the unique Arthas-as-paladin model we found there, they just used the Lich King, complete with Frostmourne for weapon.

I swear, every time I think I'm over caring about the lore of this game, Blizzard finds a new low to reach in breaking my sense of immersion. One of the dungeons i was looking forward to the most turns out to be one I can barely stomach.
Lets not forget malygos.

Poor malygos. Apparently killing him in Wrath killed him in the past, too.
Lets not forget malygos.

Poor malygos. Apparently killing him in Wrath killed him in the past, too.


He was actually not there at the time, having been blasted away when Deathwing first turned the Dragon Soul against the other flights.
11/30/2011 07:58 PMPosted by Emmberr
He had a few fissures in his body that had a couple placed over them. Not a completely decimated body and an adamantite lower jaw.


"HEY GUYS, NEW DUNGEON WITH PRE-CATCLYSM DEATHWING COMING OUT."

"We should make an entire new model for Neltharion, even though he'd pretty much look roughly the same anyways."

"Nah."

"Ok."


That's just it though: it would barely have taken any work to do it, because they already have the model and texture in place. Just give him a normal, pure black jaw and body, and put a couple metal plates on his chest. The model is probably somewhere in Blizzard's databanks already as the base model they used before editing on the additions.
The model is probably somewhere in Blizzard's databanks already as the base model they used before editing on the additions.


I dont think such a model exist. More importantly doing something like that could have delayed 4.3.
You should've known going into the instance there would be some form of confusion, that period of time has been ret-conned so much Blizzard doesn't even know whats right anymore.

The way this describes it, http://www.wowwiki.com/Deathwing, does not match up with what happened in the game. Just forget about lore now lol, the place is just there for you to get gear and move on
The accent Tyrande has was bad.

The explicitly sinister Illidan, despite this being before he absorbed the skull of Guldan, and even before he was imprisoned and chained for 10,000 years, is worse.

The pre-Deathwing Neltharion model complete with body ruptures and metallic jaw/plates is just laugh-out-loud ridiculous.

They could have just used a generic black dragon model and it would have been less out of place. This is akin to if we'd gone to Culling of Stratholme, and instead of the unique Arthas-as-paladin model we found there, they just used the Lich King, complete with Frostmourne for weapon.

I swear, every time I think I'm over caring about the lore of this game, Blizzard finds a new low to reach in breaking my sense of immersion. One of the dungeons i was looking forward to the most turns out to be one I can barely stomach.
Lets not forget malygos.

Poor malygos. Apparently killing him in Wrath killed him in the past, too.


Malygos was not present at that point of the WotA.
To be fair, I don't believe there were any clear indications of how ripped up and modified Deathwing was at that point. While it is a stretch to use his modern model, it's not an outright violation of lore.

I'm actually amazed at how well Blizzard followed established lore in this dungeon. Even a lot of the dialogue was right out of the book.

Lets not forget malygos.

Poor malygos. Apparently killing him in Wrath killed him in the past, too.


Malygos had already retreated from the world at this point after Deathwing pretty much wiped out the Blue Dragonflight.
Protip: At the point in time that the Well of Eternity takes place, Deathwing has already used the Dragon Soul, been torn apart by it, and had plates grafted on to him.

But hey, I'm sure you knew that, being a huge lore nerd and all <3


Yep, this.

There could be some legitimate complaints with regards to the vastness of the Well itself, and the size of the palace, but, ultimately, these things need to "fit" within reasonable gameplay and design requirements.

Otherwise, the lore was solid, most of the Knaak butchery was omitted, and Illidan was so freaking cool my only complaint is I wish he had been as awesome in Black Temple.
11/29/2011 11:19 PMPosted by Daystar
The accent Tyrande has was bad.


The same voice actress is responsible for her voice then and now.

11/29/2011 11:19 PMPosted by Daystar
The explicitly sinister Illidan, despite this being before he absorbed the skull of Guldan, and even before he was imprisoned and chained for 10,000 years, is worse.


He was already blinded and making use of demonic power by this point, however. I'm not quite certain what you mean by 'explicitly sinister', but he was already largely estranged from his fellows and pursuing his own research at this point. In that light, we thought it would be more interesting to show a little bit of corruption even before he consumes the powers in the skull as opposed to just having him look like a straight-up night elf.

11/29/2011 11:19 PMPosted by Daystar
The pre-Deathwing Neltharion model complete with body ruptures and metallic jaw/plates is just laugh-out-loud ridiculous.


I know that this might be a bit tough to swallow for some, but the use of the current Deathwing model in that scene was a matter of efficiency. A ton of work went into 4.3, and we squeezed in as much as we could, but it didn't make sense to dedicate the huge resources it takes to create a custom model for that one cameo, and we were concerned that using a generic black dragon model wouldn't have the same immediate value of recognition.

Modifying the Illidan model made more sense because you actually spend some time running around with him in the dungeon.

On that note, I should point out that creating custom models actually consumes substantial resources, so they're precious to us. Tyrande didn’t have her own model for seven years, Sylvanas didn’t have her own model for several years, etc. We'd love to have custom models for every character, for every scene at every point in the timeline, but the resources simply don't exist to make that happen. In the meantime, we hope that players can use a little bit of imagination and still enjoy the dungeons anyway, even if a given model isn't always a perfect reflection of the character.
12/01/2011 01:22 PMPosted by Daxxarri
On that note, I should point out that creating custom models actually consumes substantial resources, so they're precious to us. Tyrande didn’t have her own model for seven years, Sylvanas didn’t have her own model for several years, etc. We'd love to have custom models for every character, for every scene at every point in the timeline, but the resources simply don't exist to make that happen. In the meantime, we hope that players can use a little bit of imagination and still enjoy the dungeons anyway, even if a given model isn't always a perfect reflection of the character.
Reach out to the community. As I'm sure you're aware of, there are entire websites/forums/communities out there with people making their own models for private servers. A lot of those people have real talent.

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