Making DS Normal More Challenging?

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
I don't understand why normals have to be difficult. I'd understand if you felt heroic content was too easy and were 8/8 in HDS.

I don't get people complaining about OTHER people getting gear and having fun.

If DS is too easy for you, obviously you will be more comfortable in heroic mode.
I don't understand why normals have to be difficult. I'd understand if you felt heroic content was too easy and were 8/8 in HDS.

I don't get people complaining about OTHER people getting gear and having fun.

If DS is too easy for you, obviously you will be more comfortable in heroic mode.


The problem is that if normal mode is super simple, so the only thing that people can do next is hardmodes, but there is no rampup in difficulty, so people hit a brick wall, and either quit, run normals ad nauseam, or Blizzard nerfs hardmodes so that people have at least a shot at it.

The brick wall happened in ToC (70%+ did Normal Anub'arak, only about 20% did Northrend Beasts hardmode), and the Firelands hardmodes nerfs happened so that all the people who previously were doing normals still had something to do.

Basically, there are people who want content that is relatively difficult, but not ridiculously so - this was what "normal" was at 60, 70, a little bit of 80, T11, T12 pre-nerf, some hardmodes T12 post-nerf. My estimation of a properly tuned "normal" boss is, for my group, a boss that takes 30-50 attempts to do, with end bosses taking 75ish. Certainly, anything that takes less than 20 tries to learn is undertuned, and the people saying that it takes less than 10 (or even 5) is quite frankly, ridiculous.

It means that in a month we're either going to be banging our head against a brick wall, or just doing trivial content over and over again. Plus, I don't know if you did ICC, but I HATED having to do the first 4 bosses every week. We always had to waste an hour doing stupid !@#$ to get to the stuff that was interesting.

It's just a terrible model for anyone who generally wants a challenge (assuming hardmodes get nerfed too).


It's just at terrible model.


No, lol no. A terrible model is losing 2 million paying subscribers in 1 year.


Second half does get harder.


It's just at terrible model.


No, lol no. A terrible model is losing 2 million paying subscribers in 1 year.


I have yet to see any data indicating that the subscription losses had anything to do with the difficulty of the raids, if that was what you're insinuating.

I would guess the subscription losses have much more to do with the complete lack of content all around (68 bosses at 60, compared to 28 so far in Cata, fairly substantial difference).
The point is, the normal first 4 Dragon Soul bosses are WAY TOO EASY for the people they're designed for - i.e. your average 2 day a week casual raid guild (for most of which heroic modes are too tough).

These guys you talk about found:
the first few bosses in Firelands on normal mode pre-nerf

To be too hard, which is why they nerfed them. You heroic mode raiders just have no idea how far ahead of the curve of you are.


No, lol no. A terrible model is losing 2 million paying subscribers in 1 year.


I have yet to see any data indicating that the subscription losses had anything to do with the difficulty of the raids, if that was what you're insinuating.

I would guess the subscription losses have much more to do with the complete lack of content all around (68 bosses at 60, compared to 28 so far in Cata, fairly substantial difference).



Yea. Keep telling yourself that. Morhaime admitted CATA was too hard. Blizzard said during Blizzcon that they were going back to the WOTLK style heroics, and adding the challenge mode.

Some people are so far behind, they actually think they are ahead.



I am laughing at you.
The point is, the normal first 4 Dragon Soul bosses are WAY TOO EASY for the people they're designed for - i.e. your average 2 day a week casual raid guild (for most of which heroic modes are too tough).

These guys you talk about found:
the first few bosses in Firelands on normal mode pre-nerf

To be too hard, which is why they nerfed them. You heroic mode raiders just have no idea how far ahead of the curve of you are.


And for those of us who aren't heroic mode raiders? At least not more than 1 or 2 at proper tuning? The entirety of normal mode was targeted to our group. It's pretty understandable when half of the "normal" raid is undertuned that we'd be upset about losing it.
These guys you talk about found:
the first few bosses in Firelands on normal mode pre-nerf
to be too hard


the Op is not a "heroic mode raider", at least his achieve's only show him completing Bot and firelands normal...and hes the one complaining.

*snip*
The raiding model has been fundamentally flawed since day 1 of WoTLK, and will remain so until the day Blizzard does away with the idea of only 1 relevant tier of content and stops showering people with more loot than they know what to do with.


I'm actually at the point on this character, an alt no less, where I feel like I have to ration my instances runs so I don't gear up too quickly and run out of things to do. Keep in mind, I've done each new Heroic ONCE, yet with the amount of quest gear, a couple JP purchases and a lucky drop, I'm already wondering how long I can make it last on this character.

I'm a skilled raider, and I don't really have any interest in LFR on this alt or any others based on what I've heard, but I'll still be raiding DS on my main. I don't think there's ever been a point in the 5 years I've played this game that I've said to myself: "I really shouldn't do this instance because I don't want to run out of things to do."

In my opinion, something is fundamentally wrong with the current model. The new 5-mans are very easy for the most part. On this lowly Shaman I healed the 2nd boss of Hour of Twilight using only Earth Shield and Healing Stream totem. That's it. Couple that with the ease of getting gear, only to end up steamrolling LFR, and one wonders if this will last. The carrot on a stick model that's needed to maintain long-term subscriptions is gone. Now it seems as if we're just being tossed a carrot.

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