So let's say Theramore isn't favoritism

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I know Velen is supposed to finally do something, the awesome potential that his character has...

I hope, we're trading Theramore for something more extravagent...like say...The Exodar being fully operational again and having gnomes "modify" it to work like a giant...oh, I don't know...star of death?

That'd be excellent, thanks. Def increase subs.
You're all just going to have to accept it:

The Horde are the Harlem Globetrotters and the Alliance are the Washington Generals.


Who?


This response makes me feel sad. And old. Very old.
The alliance DO have flavor. THey are honorable, they are holy, their master's of magic. + They have access to worgen humans, the king has shizoprenia, and has a light and dark side due to war,

besides if you read the book the shattering, the alliance have quite the roles going.

I admit i'm still a little concerned about the princess of iron forge and what her motives are, but alliance have had good flavor this expansion, you just got to dig for it.

Being good at war or winning a town doesn't make you better for lore.

Again i stand corrected, people mix lore with simplistic win / loss racial of war.

I guess for some people, lore is only good for them when they are winning a war.
nvm, delete
12/01/2011 02:03 PMPosted by Enekie
I don't think this thread is long for this world...


Then another thread will be made until this is addressed.

I deeply lament that things got aggressive here, but it has to be made clear that "wait and see" can't be a response for this issue.


But there's no issue. You don't know what happens. No one does. We've been told about one plot turning point, but not the details in how it plays out and the ramifications of it.

It's as if we heard about Captain Pickard being captured by the Borg before that particular episode's release and mounted a massive campaign against it before it aired.
I'm horde, and I have to say this is bogus. The biggest doofus in WoW history gets the drop on one of the most powerful mage in the Azeroth, let alone a FROST mage. Yeah okay...
But there's no issue. You don't know what happens. No one does. We've been told about one plot turning point, but not the details in how it plays out and the ramifications of it.



I have been trying to say this for an hour. Thank you for being on the same page. Thank you.
Just a couple of points I'd like to make.

1) I know I'm going to seem biased but I agree with the devs on making the wins and losses not equal. It adds depth to the universe when one side has the upper hand and the other is at a disadvantage. They can swap around who has the upper hand, they can always have the conflict trend towards a stalemate at times. Keeping it the win loses at a virtually stalemate would kill immersion and make the story bland because you figure when horde loses Y, then the alliance will lose X.

2) I get the impression that people are viewing the various factions as if they are individual nations not tied down by their faction's current predicaments. Vol'jin, Baine and Sylvanas (spelling?) might not like Garrosh; however, they are part of the Horde which is at war with the alliance. Removing Theramore as a major source of Alliance power makes a lot of sense for Vol'jin, whose people finally secured they're new home and Baine, who is dealing with the Grimtotem betrayal (also the sacking of camp T doesn't help matters). That's going to slow down Alliance progress in the barrens and reduce the ability of the Alliance launching attacks on Thunderbluff and the Sen'ji (sp?) Islands. Remember neither one may have a personal grudge against Jaina, they may even like her, but Theramore is an access point for a power that their people are warring with. If nothing else threat of the Alliance is >>>>>>>>>>>> we hate Garrosh.

3) Goblin dynamic.

First off, I'm unclear where the Bilgewater goblins ended up joining the Horde in the timeline. I suspect that was after the events that let up to the current map of Kalimdor, their arrival could provide the Horde with enough man power to make an assault on Theramore feasible.

Second off, Alliance actions forced a neutral faction to pick sides and the people who make up this faction that joined the Horde are the same race as another neutral faction that happens to have a presence near Theramore. Throw in the fact that the goblins aren't above being snearky and most will do anything for profit. You pretty much have a recipe where the Steamwheedle(sp?) goblins might be willing to do some covert sabotage for the Horde with a little payment even if it shuts out business from the Alliance (they might not care given the actions directed at Bilgewater). If the Alliance manages to keep some sort of presence in the remains of Theramore, then that's a great costumer base that is reliant on your services given the extend of Horde presence in that part of the continent.

4) Human dynamic. I think too many people are assuming that all the humans in Theramore are behind Jaina and there is very little in the way of plotting and backstabbing in the Alliance world. I'm willing to suspect there are numerous Theramore citizens that would like to remove Jaina from power and replace her with a war-hawk willing to go at it with the Horde (even if geographically, it's a very bad idea). There are also probably plenty of Alliance figures from the other factions willing to help such Theramore citizens in their endeavor to replace Jaina. We can also go back to point three, those Alliance figures could pay the Steamwheedle goblins to do some sabotage and make sure they get identified as Horde saboteurs.

If you have the factors from points 2-4 collide, that could easily lead to Theramore being destroyed. It also paves the way for writing Jaina out and I think that's something they are going to have to do. They more or less wrote Thrall out who was a factor in preventing an all out war between Horde and Alliance, remove Jaina and that kills the Alliance's voice of reason. I don't think they could make her work as a faction leader, with considerable power, supporting the conflict given her past actions. I suspect they'll likely kill her off, but they could keep her around as a figure trying to find a peaceful solution to the conflict.
The alliance DO have flavor. THey are honorable, they are holy, their master's of magic. + They have access to worgen humans, the king has shizoprenia, and has a light and dark side due to war,besides if you read the book the shattering, the alliance have quite the roles going.I admit i'm still a little concerned about the princess of iron forge and what her motives are, but alliance have had good flavor this expansion, you just got to dig for it.


How far do horde have to dig for their lore?

None its smack dab in the middle of everything.

The politics and shady motives all of it are playing out front and center from 1-85.

All that stuff you mentioned about ally?

Exactly how well represented is that in game?
12/01/2011 03:15 PMPosted by Cheesebake
The alliance DO have flavor. THey are honorable, they are holy, their master's of magic. + They have access to worgen humans, the king has shizoprenia, and has a light and dark side due to war,


We have worgens. You have muscle-clad orcs, minotaur-copies and unstoppable zombies.


12/01/2011 03:15 PMPosted by Cheesebake
besides if you read the book the shattering, the alliance have quite the roles going.


Yes, Anduin and Varian's father/son problems are great story. Meanwhile, as Garrosh gets his butt handed to him by Cairne in a duel...


12/01/2011 03:15 PMPosted by Cheesebake
I admit i'm still a little concerned about the princess of iron forge and what her motives are, but alliance have had good flavor this expansion, you just got to dig for it.


Our supposed leader lost his nerve to a child when it came to killing a huge threat to his close friend's kingdom. Some flavor.


12/01/2011 03:15 PMPosted by Cheesebake
Being good at war or winning a town doesn't make you better for lore.


Except when you lose all your towns. And wars against the opposing faction. In the World of Warcraft.


12/01/2011 03:15 PMPosted by Cheesebake
Again i stand corrected, people mix lore with simplistic win / loss racial of war.


When it's lore about war? Yea, we kinda like to have something to be proud of, and as it stands, the Horde has ALL the bragging rights.


12/01/2011 03:15 PMPosted by Cheesebake
I guess for some people, lore is only good for them when they are winning a war.


It's not even about winning. It's that our entire faction has been painted as a bunch of inept morons who can't even pick a king that doesn't ALREADY have son issues. We want to win something. Anything. ANYTHING that gives us a reason to be proud Alliance.
12/01/2011 03:21 PMPosted by Tazje
But there's no issue. You don't know what happens. No one does. We've been told about one plot turning point, but not the details in how it plays out and the ramifications of it.



I have been trying to say this for an hour. Thank you for being on the same page. Thank you.


If I pick an apple from a tree and bite into it and find it horrible...I can be pretty sure that the next bite will be just as bad w.o having to take it.

Again WoW is not that simple but you can only dangle the carrot in front of the person for so long before they start to wonder about the intentions of the ones holding the stick.
12/01/2011 03:24 PMPosted by Timat



I have been trying to say this for an hour. Thank you for being on the same page. Thank you.


If I pick an apple from a tree and bite into it and find it horrible...I can be pretty sure that the next bite will be just as bad w.o having to take it.

Again WoW is not that simple but you can only dangle the carrot in front of the person for so long before they start to wonder about the intentions of the ones holding the stick.


You don't even know if it's an apple yet. It could be a kumquat or a peach. Or even strawberries.

All you've been told is that it's fruit.

And you haven't had bite first yet.
The Alliance might have lore, the alliance might have history. In fact, let's grab the Night Elves as an example.

I dare to say, that there's few races that have as much lroe developed as Night Elves do. But them having a story, powerful characters and clear motives doesn't mean they get a good position.

In Cataclysm, they are innefectual, idiotic wrecks that get owned left and right, corrupted easily and in-game, it shows. One quick sweep through Ashenvale pre and post questing on horde and alliance side gives a single, very obvious glance: Night Elves don't stand a chance. Be it Jumping Kodos or an orc shouting, there's nothing the supposedly powerful Ancients, goddess or High Priestess can do.

They're just a plot mobile for The Horde to showcase their supremacy. And outside of the game, they serve this purpose for The Alliance, where they desperately need their help to survive against The Horde, because by themselves they're nothing against The Horde. Nothing.

Theramore has the same purpose. Showcase the supremacy of The Horde, get the Alliance owned, piss people off, see the results of this 'getting pissed off' carried on to a far-away island ignoring the fact the tensions are right in your home. Enjoying having your area be on fire for about 6-4 years when the next expansion is going to completely wipe it out. That's all there is to it.
12/01/2011 01:14 PMPosted by Zarhym
I'm just saying I fully expect people to come back to the forums once the event is actually live and claim that I completely lied to them, and that we didn't follow through on our guarantee to have Jaina spit in Garrosh's face, freezing and shattering his thick skull, followed by Varian flying down on Tyrael's Charger and blowing all of Orgrimmar into the ocean with a sneeze. And then pandas.


I see, so because we have no faith in you, you have no faith in us?

And you really don't want to try and redeem yourself in our eyes and win our trust back?

Got it.


If I pick an apple from a tree and bite into it and find it horrible...I can be pretty sure that the next bite will be just as bad w.o having to take it.

Again WoW is not that simple but you can only dangle the carrot in front of the person for so long before they start to wonder about the intentions of the ones holding the stick.


You don't even know if it's an apple yet. It could be a kumquat or a peach. Or even strawberries.

All you've been told is that it's fruit.

And you haven't had bite first yet.


Let me try a different way.

Horde sacked Southshore.

NO alliance leader stood to defend it. Nada. They just rolled over and let it happen.

What has been said that this time will be any different.

I am not getting my hopes up till I see some more concrete evidence that this will actually be a fight.

Till then I can only go off what I have seen in the past.


You don't even know if it's an apple yet. It could be a kumquat or a peach. Or even strawberries.

All you've been told is that it's fruit.

And you haven't had bite first yet.


Let me try a different way.

Horde sacked Southshore.

NO alliance leader stood to defend it. Nada. They just rolled over and let it happen.

What has been said that this time will be any different.

I am not getting my hopes up till I see some more concrete evidence that this will actually be a fight.

Till then I can only go off what I have seen in the past.


Which, to clarify, will be utter and total incompetence on the Alliance's part.
Does any of that have ANY impact beyond those starting zones though?

Slyvannas' plague, Garrosh's leadership struggle, Vol'Jin's dislike of Garrosh they all play out from 1-85 and are always there.

Worgen's issues stop after you get out of the start zone.


What impact does the plague and Vol'jin hating Garrosh have after the early zones? The plague is important until roughly Hillsbrad. The Dark Irons are important until roughly the end of the Wetlands. Seems even to me. Heck, the Dark Irons even come back to a degree in Searing Gorge.

Vol'jin's beef with Garrosh doesn't have much direct impact on anything after the troll starting zone, whereas the Westfall story unites two very dramatic storylines with the humans: the disenfranchised Defias Brotherhood with the disenfranchised citizens left destitute by the kingdom's campaigns in Northrend.

A lot of what you get out of a story like WoW's is what you put into it. If you put everything into finding every little unfairness between the factions that you can, then you're only doing yourself a disservice by dismissing the stories that are there.

I burned the place down while she was out playing in the mud. I planted a Horde banner there so that THEY could waste their time with that place. We don't need it. We don't want it. If the threads about horde favoritism don't stop, I'll be favoring the horde as well.

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