We want the devs to "get" factions.

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11/30/2011 05:03 PMPosted by Bomdanil
That's actually a pretty glaring difference in quality of story right there. The Horde invade Highbank with their quests (or gear up for it) and the Alliance story involves going to play Susie Matchmaker for the Wildhammers.


Okay, it may not be an epic battle -- but I liked the Kurdran storyline, including his quest to unite the Wildhammers. Then again, I've always seen myself as a Wildhammer; I wish Blizzard would give a dwarf the right to declare a clan.

The Wildhammer wedding was interesting -- much better than Thrall's!

Which is why I get so annoyed with Blizzard's poor treatment of the rest of the Alliance. My dwarf feels a kinship with Kurdran, his gryphon, the wildhammers -- because the quests were well-done. So why can't they do the same for Varian, Jaina, Velen (and other DRAENEI, please!)

Give us a ROLE in the future of the Alliance, of Ironforge! You've started an interesting situation in IF -- so let us be part of resolving it, maybe bringing the 3 factions closer together.

That's the soprt of thing Alliance players are asking for -- make us part of a great story, don;t just make us background for the horde. You can do it, you have before.
11/30/2011 05:20 PMPosted by Bomdanil
Why does Blizzard need to make things even, equal, equivalent?


I want equal quality in story telling. Fending off an invasion of Horde for 3 quests and then being told "Whew, glad that's over with. Now onto the wedding!" when there's a battle openly raging nought half a click to the west is just plain dumb. Some acknowledgement that there were even Horde to fight in the zone, outside of the token PvP capture the flag quest, would have been nice.


The problem there is storytelling is inherently subjective. My favourite books are the Foundation series by Isaac Asimov, now is that equal quality to Arthur C Clarke's Space Odyssey books? That's an impossible question to answer as it comes down to preference which cannot be measured.
11/30/2011 05:23 PMPosted by Lochlyn
The Wildhammer wedding was interesting -- much better than Thrall's


I found the 'get the Dwarves hitched' quest very out of place... But you are right. I could take solace in that knowing I was atleast interacting with Alliance characters. But that also means Alliance get to to this, twice, second time around for a character they'd much rather see beheaded rather than betrothed. Rehashing and rebaking quests within the same expansion, who'da thunk it?
Did you play Wrath of the Lich King?

I understand Cataclysm has been horde heavy in some respects, but let's not rewrite history.


Yes I did and I remember quite clearly the Horde got alot of lore there as well. The assault on the Wrathgate was the culmination of the forsaken story plot. You got to introduce Garrosh and his obvious attempt at wanting to wipe the Alliance.

I'll admit the Alliance got some decent lore with the human and gnome origins but anytime the Alliance lore intersects with the Horde we always seems to be on the losing end. Ahem*broken front* ahem.
I mean there is obviously a feeling of lacking in ally players where story is concerned.

Dont believe me?

Just look at the types of players on horde and ally.

Horde centered player usually have a deep love for Thrall and a deep hate for Garrosh. Feeling on Slyvannas are equally as strong on either side (some like some hate). Vol'jin has his own little mini fan club as well.

Now look at Ally...

When it comes to Varian...no one really cares. Some people hate him but if you ask a random ally the question "How do you feel about Varian's character" most will reply "Dont really care" or "Dont know" or something as vauge.

Same goes for NEARLY EVERY ALLY LEADER. Ironforge council? Who cares, Tyrande? Meh she is cool I guess, Hardly anyone knows the Gnome leader by name anymore, And worgens have a cool rich in lore starting quest...then just vanish. Same for space goats.

Even major ally figures (not leaders) are not that "major" in the story. Malfurion just kinda...came back.

So again passions run high on either side when you look at horde players most of the time.

Ally just feels so...disconnected in emotions towards their leaders.



I want equal quality in story telling. Fending off an invasion of Horde for 3 quests and then being told "Whew, glad that's over with. Now onto the wedding!" when there's a battle openly raging nought half a click to the west is just plain dumb. Some acknowledgement that there were even Horde to fight in the zone, outside of the token PvP capture the flag quest, would have been nice.


The problem there is storytelling is inherently subjective. My favourite books are the Foundation series by Isaac Asimov, now is that equal quality to Arthur C Clarke's Space Odyssey books? That's an impossible question to answer as it comes down to preference which cannot be measured.


The problem isn't that one side is getting the Foundation and the other is getting Space Odyssey, the problem is that one is getting Foundation, and the other is getting Plan 9 From Outer Space. If they were different viewpoints with equivilent quality, that would be one thing, but the Alliance had several instances where their experience was neglected in favor of getting the Horde's experience finished before launch.

Did someone seriously say that the missing diplomat was the best quest chain in the game? The quest chain that abruptly ends with nothing having happened? I could name a dozen quest chains that were better done than that. Hell, the Eranikus quest line wrapped up in a more timely manner than the Missing Diplomat.


Yeah, there was this one quest chain, I remember it had a really cool start, lots of intrigue and twists and political maneuvering, and then everyone realized "HEY WAIT THE KING IS THE ONE WHO IS MISSING" I was really looking forward to finishing that.

And then Jaina gave me a ring, and years later the entirety of the questline was tossed out the window, and there were some comics about the king's badass twin who was found by orcs, enslaved, trained to be a gladiator (HEY GUYS REMEMBER THRALL'S BACKSTORY, HEY, HEY, HE WAS TOTALLY A GLADIATOR TOO, TRAINED BY HUMANS, MAN, GET IT?) and then they made the Onyxia chain non-canon thus undoing an actual piece of good storytelling, and The King met up with The King Twin and then they BOTH FOUGHT ONYXIA AND THEN THEY FUSED INTO ONE KING AGAIN AND KILLED HER SO HARD.

Fargo wants Blizzard to be a Hero factory, I don't know about anyone else but rescuing the King of Stormwind from the clutches of the black dragonflight, assisting him in killing the one who captured him, and saving his son's life in the process would've made me feel pretty heroic. Instead I killed twelve spiders on Tol Barad.

Oh well.
11/30/2011 05:31 PMPosted by Claíomh
The problem isn't that one side is getting the Foundation and the other is getting Space Odyssey, the problem is that one is getting Foundation, and the other is getting Plan 9 From Outer Space.


Touche!
The devs get the Horde pretty well. They understand factions, they just don't understand equivalence. How are they going to bring World PvP in MoP back when almost every single high end PvPer has rerolled Horde or were Horde to being with? Unless their idea of world PvP will be camping Stormwind and having invincible Orgrimmar guards (at this rate I truly believe Blizz will make that happen). Bioware have figured out that both sides need to look good and both sides will get a chance to do the right thing or do the practical thing. I'm not saying I'd quit WoW, because that's an empty threat. I'm just saying Blizz needs to realise that they're shooting themselves in the foot by making Alliance nearly unplayable, because even the Horde support the notion of having a worthy opponent.
11/30/2011 12:59 PMPosted by Cadenbrie


Did you play Wrath of the Lich King?

I understand Cataclysm has been horde heavy in some respects, but let's not rewrite history.


You're still missing the point of the entire post, since the discussion isn't about Cata being Horde heavy but rather the Alliance having no involvement in this conflict.

Do you all even read the countless threads on this topic? I assure you it's not all about "keeping score".

Perhaps you could spend less time trying to come up with snarky comments and veiled insults please.


This, a million times over. Thrall in this expansion is an absolute slap in the face. The fact you felt the need to give us a king whose sole purpose to be a jerk, with zero character development. Heck, Garrosh got to grow character wise this expansion!

But "don't worry, we've been stringing you along for seven years! Eventually you'll get an actual worth while plot!"

Did the watercooler come AFTER people continued to point out Alliance's neglect? Or the fact, after the hate video YOUR people made, came out at Blizzcon that resulted the company president had to apologize over? You know, the one where officials from Blizzard sanctioned and approved to be shown where it insults Alliances players using strong, hateful language?

Because it's REALLY hard to ignore the absolute anti-Alliance fervor your company has now.

I remember Wrath! I remember it being a mostly faction neutral story line with the Argent Dawn fulfilling it's purpose. But it did feature King Varian the undeveloped mean king and Crybaby Jaina. I am not the only one who was upset you made Jaina some sniveling girl through the last half of THAT expansion.
Okay, it may not be an epic battle -- but I liked the Kurdran storyline, including his quest to unite the Wildhammers.


I should clarify that I don't find the Wildhammer quest chain necessarily bad. It was a good quest chain, but at the same time its out of place as the main focus for the zone. The Horde invaded Highbank. There should be some acknowledgement of this, and a planned counter strike or really anything involving getting your hands dirty with the Horde, and there just isn't any of that.

There's a war going on, and right now only one faction gets to participate in it or to even get quests acknowledging that it is even occuring.
11/30/2011 05:25 PMPosted by Scarletta
The problem there is storytelling is inherently subjective. My favourite books are the Foundation series by Isaac Asimov, now is that equal quality to Arthur C Clarke's Space Odyssey books? That's an impossible question to answer as it comes down to preference which cannot be measured.


I have to say I completely agree with you. There are so many people on these forums (and real life) that totally skipped the day that the teacher explained what subjectivity meant.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

In the end opinions are only as correct as the power of the people that agree with you.
The opening post was very well written. I want to say that, unfortunately, I agree with almost everything the TC said. He can't speak for everybody, but his views line up with mine.

I personally don't care who wins what- as long as it's a good story. At the end of a zone I want to be shaking my fist, jumping for joy or just plain enjoying myself. I got this when leveling my new horde alt this expansion. I can't say anything close to the same thing for any of my alliance ones.

Edit:
And it's obviously not intentional, it's just a storytelling gaffe. Cataclysm questing on both sides is the greatest questing in the game as of yet. It's sort of like the uncanny valley of questing. The stuff's getting better, but now it's good enough to be compared to things that are *actually* good, and it doesn't match up well in some cases, and this time it happens to be that the alliance stories are not quite as entertaining.
It's sad.. so many good posts supporting the OP. Yet, none of them will get any notice from the devs. If any of them get noticed it will be the most random, unrelated post they can find.
Storyline.. All alliance gathered up in a pit, Chuck Norris jumps in the pit...roundhouse kicks Alliance. Alliance dead. End of story. Roll horde you babies.
I should clarify that I don't find the Wildhammer quest chain necessarily bad. It was a good quest chain, but at the same time its out of place as the main focus for the zone. The Horde invaded Highbank. There should be some acknowledgement of this, and a planned counter strike or really anything involving getting your hands dirty with the Horde, and there just isn't any of that.


To be fair the Alliance was more focus on Twilight Hammer than the Horde in that Zone, storywise. I wish they had kept the intro quest where Varian said to try and not "engage the Horde, there time will come".

Anyway storywise the Alliance did get to repel the Horde twice. It seems like a constant theme. Horde attacks and nearly wins. Alliance counter attacks and its back to a stalemate.

I have a bad feeling though, I'm sure Blizz will try to actually make a compelling story for the Alliance but I wonder if it will come at the cost of the Horde storyline in MoP?
11/30/2011 05:55 PMPosted by Maudertras
It's sad.. so many good posts supporting the OP. Yet, none of them will get any notice from the devs. If any of them get noticed it will be the most random, unrelated post they can find.


Does it not seem shortsighted to you to believe that just because they don't do what you want them to do it means they didn't read or understand what you/they said?

How do you not see that it isn't a matter of not listening to you? In reality its simply a matter of them just disagreeing with you.

There isn't really a conspiracy out there to hide or ignore the "truth". But... I heard that GC faked his birth certificate and was really born in China which obviously explains Mists and totally makes him the Anti-Christ. God's 2nd son Rush Limbaugh told me so.
11/30/2011 06:24 PMPosted by Dyrtygirl
There isn't really a conspiracy out there to hide or ignore the "truth". But... I heard that GC faked his birth certificate and was really born in China which obviously explains Mists and totally makes him the Anti-Christ. God's 2nd son Rush Limbaugh told me so.


False

Rush is God's third son

Regan is his second.
I'm a die-hard hordie (I know, my appearance is deceptive. Had to faction change for a guild, w/e.), and even I feel the Alliance are getting jipped. It's sad, really. Even when questing through Horde zones I was thinking "Hell yeah, I just kicked humans in the face! I just killed their local leader! I just killed an entire patrol group!"

And yet, no retaliation. I was expecting, "hey, they just blew up our tree!" "Holy crud!" >>insert epic fight scene here<<

Instead, I get "lolk move onto Southern Barrens now, gg"

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