We want the devs to "get" factions.

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I mean what actually happened to the alliance in Wrath? Hell the major players were not even truly "Alliance" the were a separate faction.


ok, so if i follow your logic, alliance has nothing to complain about Thrall being the centerpiece of cata, since he doesnt represent the Horde anymore and is part of the Earthen Ring if im not mistaken.


No, Because

A) Thrall WAS Warchief for over a decade IN WOW, and during that time, the Horde was attacking the Alliance in multiple places over long periods of time.
B) During his time as neutral, Thrall, among other things, slaughtered large amounts of Alliance soldiers, recruited the backbone of the Horde war machine in the Goblins and their weapons of war, and, in his signature quest, threatened to destroy the Alliance utterly, and didn't even apologize for it later.

Bolvar and Tirion were never as involved in the Alliance as Thrall was in the Horde, and they have yet to do any damage to the Horde, much less the amount Thrall has done both before and after going "neutral."

Also, Thrall has already been promised back to the Horde. We will never get Bolvar back, and Tirion was never ours to begin with, seeing as his Alliance ties were broken outside of any game, and he was never an Alliance hero until he was made up out of whole cloth for WoW.
11/30/2011 08:09 PMPosted by Kaliko
I mean what actually happened to the alliance in Wrath? Hell the major players were not even truly "Alliance" the were a separate faction.


ok, so if i follow your logic, alliance has nothing to complain about Thrall being the centerpiece of cata, since he doesnt represent the Horde anymore and is part of the Earthen Ring if im not mistaken.


No because Thrall was the WARCHIEF of the horde. He decision to leave the horde and his progress throught he earthen right is still much felt as a horde thing again due to his major infulence in the horde and the passion players feel for him.

Thrall's journey had a major infulence in the world and quests for BOTH sides reflected it.

Trion and his little gang did not "feel" like there were alliance. Heck they were quite buddy buddy with the horde for the whole expansion.

There is a differeance when a plot revolves around a leader than some side character.
11/30/2011 08:05 PMPosted by Bomdanil
@Kevyne - I'll have to agree you with there, I think him leading outside of war has been done poorly. But I think that's what Metzen promised us at Blizzcon, the Varian would become the Leader who has his **** together, someone the Alliance can truly get behind and say "okay, this is our king."


Which is exactly what the Alliance doesn't need. He's not "their king", he is Stormwind's king. Turning Varian into the Alliance version of Garrosh, and having him be the lynch pin or keystone to everything dealing with the Alliance lore is horrible planning and a cheap solution to a problem they created themselves.


Whether people like it or not, Varian IS the Leader of the Alliance, Stormwind is the greatest power in the Alliance at the moment. Having all the Leaders decide together on what to do, would just raise even more conflict, and probably nothing would be done. Having one person deciding the best course of action, is just much easier and simpler, **** gets done.

Do you think the other Alliance leaders would disagree with Varian's response to the Horde's rampage? I'm willing to bet they do, perhaps they're a bit tentative. But I'm sure for the most part they probably agree with what he's doing.

But how do we know, the other leaders are doing and saying nothing.
For me the real problem the Alliance has right now is that we don't have any kind of real galvanizing hero to rally around or against. The horde have Thrall, hands down. Garrosh is also an extremely efficient rallying point, for good or bad with the horde. The same goes for Sylvanas! The Alliance has Jaina and Thrall 2.0, er, Varian. Magni Bronzebeard is a statue, nothing is done with the Draenei or Velen, we've had two major lore figures go insane this expansion!

Where is our Lothar? Where is our Uther? It seems like all of the potential big name heroes the Alliance has left are either dead, insane, belonging to a neutral faction or in Outland! How about we bring some of those heroes back home! Maybe a resurrection of the Silver Hand? The Horde have their "horde-ness" that makes them unique, maybe the Alliance needs to get back to our roots as champions of the Light? It'd give someone for the Draenei to do at least!
11/30/2011 08:14 PMPosted by Jaelara
Also, Thrall has already been promised back to the Horde.


WOW!!! alliance will have a field day on this one when the horde gets an actual ASPECT as their leader hahahaha!!
Also the point about WotLK, I don't particularly care to argue if it was an Alliance themed expansion or not.

The point is, there was drama going on with the Horde, Sylvanas was chasing after Arthas, there was internal conflict with parts of the Forsaken. Thrall was teaching Garrosh they ways of the Horde, and trying to train him to become a leader.

All we want, is the same treatment. For SOMETHING to happen, some sort of conflict, even if it isn't the focus of the expansion. Instead nothing has happened.
Varian is a pretty interesting character imo, It's just they do a terrible job of presenting him.

He's filled with pain and has had nothing but tragedy follow him wherever he goes, and while he's always been compared to as similar to Garrosh, you can actually justify Varian's actions.

He's made SEVERAL attempts, against his better judgment, to try for peace with the Horde, even after watching his father betrayed by a half-orc, his city burned, enslaved by Orcs and used as a Gladiator for entertainment, only to be burned over and over again.

The man who raises his kid and watches over his kingdom, while this is all happening, is eventually killed by a partnership with the Horde, due to them being "unchecked". While going to fight against one of his oldest and greatest friends in Arthas.

Plus more recently, he's been struggling with his son, and being a good father as well as a king.


How much of this is in-game and where are the quests for it?
Did you play Wrath of the Lich King?

I understand Cataclysm has been horde heavy in some respects, but let's not rewrite history.
YES! Thank you Blizz for finaly proving all these sad Alliance that don't realize that yes we were favored at times of the game!


Did you read the dozen or so comments that explained in detail why bringing up Wrath was nonsensical? Or how claiming it was "alliance favoured" doesn't mesh well with the reality of the situation?
11/30/2011 12:54 PMPosted by Bashiok
Impatient or not, SEVEN YEARS of character development leaning FAR more heavily on the Horde side of the equation gets a bit ridiculous ya know?


Did you play Wrath of the Lich King?

I understand Cataclysm has been horde heavy in some respects, but let's not rewrite history.


That's not a point. This is what you say when your main point fails; style but no substance.
In wrath we had Tirion who was completely Neutral, the Kirin Tor which is Neutral, and Arthas.
(Arthas is a character who was alliance and left to make his own faction. But if Arthas is still considered to be the center piece of alliance lore then the forsaken and Blood evles should be considered alliance to out of virtue of them originating from the Alliance in WC III right....)

In cataclysm what most people seem to be summarizing is that alliance quests are half planned and not well thought out despite the apparent "blows" (lawl @ camp T) that we have inflicted or suffered. There has been nothing to inspire pride basically. There are also more practical examples of how the horde have been favored however such as Garrosh in the center of Org. Please move Wrynn to the center of SW and the AH and banks along with him as an experiment. Lets see what most people's reaction is.
Hey guess what guys??, so ya.. in WotLK, you claim that all of those main characters were "neutral", but yet now that the same thing is happening with thrall being "neutral" its wrong??, so i take it, that all neutral alliance characters can be neutral, but when a horde character becomes neutral, then we have a HUGE PROBLEM!!!.
i just think alliance should get over the fact that Thrall WAS the Horde leader.
think about.... if aliens started invading earth and we needed to stick together to save ourselves, do you think G W bush wouldve arrested or killed bin laden if he was our only hope?

you guys have to realize that even though Thrall was the leader of the Horde, he is currently saving YOUR alliance butts too. you think hes gonna tell Deathwing ''hey Nelthy, you know me and these allance guys dont really get along, mind wiping them off the face of azeroth before i kill you? please?''
WOW!!! alliance will have a field day on this one when the horde gets an actual ASPECT as their leader hahahaha!!


I'd be fine with it as long Malfurion actually become Alliance. He is co-leader of the night elves and yet he seems ok with letting tyrande die infront of him?
11/30/2011 08:25 PMPosted by Kaliko
you guys have to realize that even though Thrall was the leader of the Horde, he is currently saving YOUR alliance butts too. you think hes gonna tell Deathwing ''hey Nelthy, you know me and these allance guys dont really get along, mind wiping them off the face of azeroth before i kill you? please?''


Basically you hit the nail on the head...for the other team.

Not only is he Horde but WE have to be saved by the fromer WARCHIEF of our enemies...
11/30/2011 08:25 PMPosted by Zerde
WOW!!! alliance will have a field day on this one when the horde gets an actual ASPECT as their leader hahahaha!!


I'd be fine with it as long Malfurion actually become Alliance. He is co-leader of the night elves and yet he seems ok with letting tyrande die infront of him?


but why?

you guys are acting like my 5 year old son. ''ok dad, i'll come to the store with you....... but you have to get me something too!!''
11/30/2011 05:43 PMPosted by Bomdanil
I should clarify that I don't find the Wildhammer quest chain necessarily bad. It was a good quest chain, but at the same time its out of place as the main focus for the zone. The Horde invaded Highbank. There should be some acknowledgement of this, and a planned counter strike or really anything involving getting your hands dirty with the Horde, and there just isn't any of that.


A minor quibble. Yes, I agree that the actual war should have been a questline for the Alliance. No argument there.

The Wildhammer wedding, though, was in context -- Kurdran and others needed to unite the clans, much like trying to get the Campbells and the MacDonalds together in old Scotland. I like the humorous questlines -- I just don't want them to be the ONLY questlines.

And Blizzard SHOULD have done soemthing AFTER the clans united, instead of just leaving it as something of a dead end.
11/30/2011 08:31 PMPosted by Kaliko


I'd be fine with it as long Malfurion actually become Alliance. He is co-leader of the night elves and yet he seems ok with letting tyrande die infront of him?


but why?

you guys are acting like my 5 year old son. ''ok dad, i'll come to the store with you....... but you have to get me something too!!''


It is childish to want actual lore heavy leaders?
11/30/2011 08:32 PMPosted by Timat
It is childish to want actual lore heavy leaders?


no, i totally agree with wanting something. the problem is wanting something just because the others get something first.



I'd be fine with it as long Malfurion actually become Alliance. He is co-leader of the night elves and yet he seems ok with letting tyrande die infront of him?


but why?

you guys are acting like my 5 year old son. ''ok dad, i'll come to the store with you....... but you have to get me something too!!''


Why should Malfurion defend his wife? I want to make sure you are ACTUALLY asking us this question.
11/30/2011 08:33 PMPosted by Kaliko
It is childish to want actual lore heavy leaders?


no, i totally agree with wanting something. the problem is wanting something just because the others get something first.


Its not that they got it first...its that we never have had at all.

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