We want the devs to "get" factions.

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WotLK wasnt as nearly as Alliance heavy as people say it was, it was probably the most neutral expansion to date.

And its clearly wasnt Alliance heavy enough to balance Cata.

Tirion hadnt been "Alliance" for a long time before WotLK


These are discussions that make me wonder whether I'm playing the same game as some people who post on the forums. I haven't felt at all slighted as alliance in any expansion including Cata, and oh lord no Theramore burns in MoP, how is that horde favoritism?
BC - people claim it was alliance biased because of Mediev, Illidan, and Maiev, I don't think it was. It was neutral at best. Thrall's coming home party, the Sunwell, Tempest keep, all advanced Horde story lines. Not to mention the Alliance new race was just an after thought, barely worthy of a footnote that read *Also the Draenei had something to do with this.


The Draenei seem to have bene completely forgotten -- a fate likely in store for the Worgen as well. Both races feel as if they were afterthoughts, created to balance the deep stories of the Blood Elves and Goblins. It's my feeling that Blizzard always designs the Horde races first -- otherwise, why do Belfs and Goblins have so much MORE (quest, lore, territoruy, involvement) than Draenei and Worgen?

At least my Draenei has one solace -- she isn't standing in the AH drooling in someone's ear. Between the hap-hazard female Worgen model and the TERRIBLE sound effects, there's no way I'm leveling a Worgen beyond level 20.

Been playing since before BC. I keep waiting for the Draenei to be SOMETHING other than refugees and (in the case of the females) eye-candy.

BTW, I *like* my eye candy. :) Just don't make that the Draenei's ONLY purpose.
WotLK wasnt as nearly as Alliance heavy as people say it was, it was probably the most neutral expansion to date.

And its clearly wasnt Alliance heavy enough to balance Cata.

Tirion hadnt been "Alliance" for a long time before WotLK


These are discussions that make me wonder whether I'm playing the same game as some people who post on the forums. I haven't felt at all slighted as alliance in any expansion including Cata, and oh lord no Theramore burns in MoP, how is that horde favoritism?


To reiterate the argument about Theramore. The explanation for Theramore that was given is "it's the first move in the war" to which some folks said "uh, first move? what about <insert giant list of unanswered greviances here>" to which a developer replied, essentially,"we want you to suffer, things are going to get a lot worse (for the Alliance)".

That attitude makes some folks go o.O just a bit.
I am a quest junkie. I have attempted to finish every questline in this game, both Alliance & Horde, and i can say matter of factly that Cataclysm ruined quests. No, not because there are more or less Horde / Alliance quests but because the quests are too cut & dry. Questlines in Vanilla & Burning Crusades brought a challenge...go to this continent & get this, then go to this dungeon & grab that. Chains of quests that almost seemed neverending, but when completed giving the player a complete satisfaction of " I did it". No dungeon finders to help find groups, no " Warchief Command Board" that basically tell you where to go. Chain quests to get attuned before you could even go into a raid, storylines that brought it to life. Nowadays its ok go here, finish these then come back to Org & get your new quest from the WCB to go to your next destination. Sorry, but how boring is that! Now if I level a new toon i'm told where to go & what to do...isn't this supposed to be my game? should I not be able to have the option of where I want to go?. I understand you've made it easy for people...but you've made it way too easy for those who are used to the old questlines & we're losing interest. Granted Cataclysm brought some pretty cool quests so it's not all for naught, but the cons outweigh the pros. Again, it shouldn't be about Horde / Alliance favortism, but about the thought that goes into these questlines.

Sincerely.
Aerodyn
for me, it isn't even the lore. for me, it's the obvious attention that the developers have paid to the horde experience, and cataclysm is so brazenly stuffed with polish for the horde that i wonder who the devs think they're fooling when they say they're not biased?

were the worgen rushed to completion at the end of the dev cycle? yes. everyone in the beta noticed the issues with the female worgen model - dropped on the playerbase only weeks before release, and going into release, this wasn't addressed. worgen also lost the mount that was planned for them and cannot see the completion of the gilneas storyline because that belongs to the horde. then, when adding in racial mounts for the worgen, the devs admitted these were models that already existed in the game anyway. thanks for flipping the bit on that boolRideable variable. the goblins, on the other hand, have an entire zone of playthings, have multiple outposts around the new 80-85 zones (where are the worgen in these zones anyway?) and got racial mounts that almost every horde character uses now.

was the refresh of Stormwind rushed? possibly. Org was completely rebuilt, while SW had its park destroyed and a couple of towers burned. Org also was granted a pleasure palace and minigolf club just 10s of flight north. denizens of SW are relegated to hanging out in the dwarven district bank.

who is Varian? well he's the king of SW, but unless you read a comic book, you have no idea where he came from. "I am Varian, but I am also Logosh." you don't say. hey guys, the king's back. would be nice if there was a questline or even a custscene that explained all this. oh well, i guess you're here for the horde achieve.

i've played both factions, and leveling through cata's revamped questlines repeats this same pattern. the alliance side has pretty typical fetch quests separated by some interesting story development, while questing for the horde is a whole different experience. i know more about tauren and their philosophy from leveling a pally there than i do about humans, and almost all my alliance toons are human.

Ok, I just wanted to point out a few things here. First, the Worgen female model isn't a result of Horde Favoritism its a result of people like you complaining about the alpha model. You complain and Blizzard answered. They gave the playerbase a cutsey worgen female model, instead of the fiercer looking alpha model.

Also, Stormwind got a few new things too. They have several lakes and ponds now. They also have the statue of Varian. I have to say that many of the graphical facelifts in Stormwind look nice. Also, org was not completed rebuilt. They just put metal on every building, moved some stuff around and added some things here and there, like elevators. The only reason org looks so different is because of the metal, really. Plus, anyways old org looked crappy, while Stormwind was always beautiful.

Oh yeah it's definitley stupid that Varian has lore stuck in a com, wait wuh? Thrall and Garrosh don't have comics! Waah!
This post is just unappreciative. The plot of the game must have some end points; it seems your largest complaint is that they just end it with text.

My response to that is that of course they do, its simpler and people can accept it. In the end I just have to say that WoW is a game, the plot has to end in some places so it can develop in others.

However, your post does bring up an idea I have had for sometime, and that is to have the tally of PvP victories count toward events, such as a victory in Ashenvale.

The issues with implementing such a system is that not everyone would accept the result and that Blizz would have to close battlegrounds.
I am a quest junkie. I have attempted to finish every questline in this game, both Alliance & Horde, and i can say matter of factly that Cataclysm ruined quests. No, not because there are more or less Horde / Alliance quests but because the quests are too cut & dry. Questlines in Vanilla & Burning Crusades brought a challenge...go to this continent & get this, then go to this dungeon & grab that. Chains of quests that almost seemed neverending, but when completed giving the player a complete satisfaction of " I did it". No dungeon finders to help find groups, no " Warchief Command Board" that basically tell you where to go. Chain quests to get attuned before you could even go into a raid, storylines that brought it to life. Nowadays its ok go here, finish these then come back to Org & get your new quest from the WCB to go to your next destination. Sorry, but how boring is that! Now if I level a new toon i'm told where to go & what to do...isn't this supposed to be my game? should I not be able to have the option of where I want to go?. I understand you've made it easy for people...but you've made it way too easy for those who are used to the old questlines & we're losing interest. Granted Cataclysm brought some pretty cool quests so it's not all for naught, but the cons outweigh the pros. Again, it shouldn't be about Horde / Alliance favortism, but about the thought that goes into these questlines.

Sincerely.
Aerodyn


Yep. I miss epic Darrowshire, the rewrite has no emotion, no getting involved. Shoot, I miss Azshura in general. I hated it cause of quests taking me there meant LOTs of swimming and trying to figure out how to get on top a cliff from below, but still the forgotton hero quest chain was still epic. Quests have lost their challenge. The entire story is shortcutted.
Bleh, instead of just writing story without players being able to influence it why not use what the player base accomplishes to tell the story?

Gates of Ahn'qiraj or whatever was probably the most interactive AND coolest thing wow has done.

So instead of "Theramore was destroyed because we say so" Why not do events that players can actually influence? Like a battle for Theramore that players take part in. Even if you don't make it a one time huge event like Opening the gates it can still take place over a certain amount of time, and you can track victories vs losses by each side to define what happens in the story..

Like if for whatever reason horde actually lose over-all more than the alliance (not likely :p) Then yay Theramore survives just is badly damaged + lots of people killed. You still have your reason for conflict. (Theramore sustained a heavy assault.) It doesn't NEED to be destroyed to piss the alliance off. Even though if stuff like this happened we would likely roll over the Alliance ;)
12/01/2011 09:22 AMPosted by Bomdanil
Go spend your time doing something useful with your life.


Like trolling threads that you claim you have no interest in?


I'll admit, I was thinking it, but I wasn't going to say it.
I've been trying really hard in these frustratingly troll infested circular discussions to remain calm.
I'm surprised with all this idiocy going around about fairness that nobody has started a thread on how unfair it is that Dragons get so much lore time, we need more quests that tell the story about the level 1 neutral critters of Azeroth!

Hopefully the next expansion will bring genocide for all Alliance races forcing everyone to be Horde and then we won't have to see all these retarded posts from people who feel like they can't get a fair shake in life. Until then, there's plenty of content for both sides throughout the history of the game - get over it. I've played both sides to level cap, there are things that are better on each faction. Go spend your time doing something useful with your life.


The day The Alliance is no longer a part of WoW is the day I'M no longer a part of WoW.
the main thing that bugs me about it is that as was said, where are the alliance leaders? Thrall left to try to fix the world pillar and stop deathwing? druids are "ememental" balance of life, and probly could help, so why didnt malfurian go too? or tyranda? why is the king of stormwind just standing menicingly next to his throne? he doesnt have quests like thrall does. greymane? i think i got trolled with the worgen start area. convinced he might be IMPORTANT nope :/ let me ask, why did his son jump into sylvannas's arrow if greymane isnt gonna be used? -.- what about the dwarves? there leader is just diamond now. a filler in his place? what?when?how? thats silly we saw like sero stuff about that. and the lil gnome leader? i have 2 85s and 2 lvl 60s and a lvl 70, ive done lots of quests, and he doesnt show up even for the gnomes past lvl 10 :/ Thrall based game ALL THE WAY. From what i understand ive heard even the DEVELOPERS think its too much thrall. why not just at this point join the factions cuz its clear that we arnt gonna get what were looking for AND be able to play alliance at the same time unless this happens. and i most certainly dont want to be a bony hunched over bones-showing undead a brutish looking fem orc, troll goblin belf or tauran. im good.
12/01/2011 09:30 AMPosted by Norya
I think it's hilarious that you use a word like "strife" to whin about a video game. You like horde's depth of story line then play horde. You don't realy have to follow a story line to enjoy a game and as you've displayed playing to follow a story line can obviously lead to agitation. End word being it's a game have fun. Thank god I'm almost done downloading so I can leave you all be on the whining boards and get back to why I give blizard my money in the 1st place to enjoy the game.


He pays 15 a month to enjoy the game the way he wants to, not the way you already do. He has a right to request things.
Impatient or not, SEVEN YEARS of character development leaning FAR more heavily on the Horde side of the equation gets a bit ridiculous ya know?


Did you play Wrath of the Lich King?

I understand Cataclysm has been horde heavy in some respects, but let's not rewrite history.


I sure did. Are you claiming it is Alliance-heavy because the Argent Crusade was lead by a human paladin..? Because that character was neutral since Vanilla and has talked about how pointless factional strife is. Had Varian lead the AC then you'd have a point.

Or maybe you are referring to Brann's involvement in Ulduar? Because that ended with the trailer. Maybe it was the reunion between Brann, Muradin, and Magni?? But what impact did that have in the game or the story? It was an unnoticed event that a lot of players didn't even see.

Battle of the Wrath Gate cinematic and the Battle for Undercity maybe? Because that actually favors the Forsaken.

What exactly skewed Wrath in favor of the Alliance?? Was it the fight between Horde and Alliance champions in Trial of the Crusader? Because we have no idea which version is canon. Was the Alliance version of the gunship battle in ICC the canonical version?? Was it Alliance + Ashen Verdict forces that canonically killed the LK??

Was it the fact that Dalaran, now a neutral city and much to the chagrin of Alliance players, lead the charge against both Malygos and Yogg-Saron??
These are obvious to anyone who has ever read a book beyond Go Dog, Go! but it's not the point. Nor is counting territories lost, conflicts won, defeats suffered the point. And this is why these threads continue to exist: you either refuse to see or just don't actually get the point.

We recognize that struggle is necessary. We, the Alliance, want the struggle. We want the conflict. We want the fight. We want the hardship.


I think you're speaking for yourself here, because dozens of capped threads have been made on the exact points Dave brought up, and you claim no one is concerned with.

I can appreciate if you don't believe those things are important, but many people obviously do, and so they were mentioned in the article. If that's all you took away from what was said though, I'd recommend taking a second read-through.

Of course, the proof is in the pudding as they say, so I don't expect anyone to get super excited over us just saying it's going to get better. We'll have to do the work and make it happen, and I can't really offer you anything other than a request that you take a wait and see approach.


For those that haven't read the dev watercooler, here's the link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3992143

What Fargo, and yourself, failed to address was that the Alliance rarely got to participate in it's own development. One of the most famous (and egregious) examples is how much more Worgen lore was seen by Forsaken players than actual players who rolled a Worgen.

Much of the story development is read about in text from NPCs as opposed to having players participate in it - Ashenvale being a notable exception.
11/30/2011 12:50 PMPosted by Windfuehrer
I'm not even sure how someone can live such a care-free life that "my faction in this video game isn't the favorite child" even makes it on their radar.


thats the thing though...there shouldn't be a favorite..if you want an interesting game...the way things are now..this game might as well be on xbox and playstation

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