We want the devs to "get" factions.

General Discussion
Prev 1 5 6 7 26 Next
Impatient or not, SEVEN YEARS of character development leaning FAR more heavily on the Horde side of the equation gets a bit ridiculous ya know?


Did you play Wrath of the Lich King?

I understand Cataclysm has been horde heavy in some respects, but let's not rewrite history.


Wrath never felt favoured towards the Alliance or the Horde to me. If it had been Varien leading the charge against the Scourge and killing the Lich King as Thrall is doing with Deathwing I'd been inclined to agree with you. It wasn't though and I just can't see how Wrath was an Alliance expansion, other then two main characters being human. Even then though the Lich King was half Orc and Tirion always felt neutral.

Edit:

Also I agree with the OP. I don't care if Alliance loses ground. What I do care about is that we get to experience that lose in an equal manor to the Horde experiencing the win.
11/30/2011 03:19 PMPosted by Taveria


Did you play Wrath of the Lich King?

I understand Cataclysm has been horde heavy in some respects, but let's not rewrite history.

Wrath never felt favoured towards the Alliance or the Horde to me. If it had been Varien leading the charge against the Scourge and killing the Lich King as Thrall is doing with Deathwing I'd been inclined to agree with you. It wasn't though and I just can't see how Wrath was an Alliance expansion, other then two main characters being human. Even then though the Lich King was half Orc and Tirion always felt neutral.

Edit:

Also I agree with the OP. I don't care if Alliance loses ground. What I do care about is that we get to experience that lose in an equal manor to the Horde experiencing the win.
Wait... so Bolvar wasn't Alliance? He's generally regarded as a better leader than Varian.
11/30/2011 03:12 PMPosted by Sváfa
I have yet to have heard a non-"Tirion is alliance!" Reason for the horde to think Wrath was alliance bias?
Varian shows up. Is more mary sue than Thrall.

Muradin Bronzebeard shows up, proves he's still just as hardcore.

Brann Bronzebeard shows up; explosions and Old Gods ensue.

Rhonin shows up, turns out he's a pushover. His wife isn't.

Tirion and Mograine show up. "But wait, those aren't Alliance, they're neutral!" How many amoung the leadership of either organization belongs to a Horde race? Oh, right, none. They might allow Horde races to join, but they certainly aren't prejudiced or anything...

Arthas shows up and is big and bad. Only two of the five (now six) Horde races have any history with him. All but one of the Alliance races have a history with him.

Arthas, Tirion, and Mograine don't prove that it's heavy on Alliance story? Wait, this is about Alliance story right? All three of those are Alliance heroes, not Horde heroes. If it's story you're interested in, and not just a tally, then their stories most definitely count and are most definitely marks for the Alliance.


Moradin is a bad !@#?

Brann shows up and the show is stolen by Thrall and Garrosh.

Oh look a Tirion and Mograine are alliance argument. Shocker. Judging from the large amount of different races in both organizations in high rank positions I would say they are not very predjudice......

Which two are you talking about? The Orcs who knew Arthas and the Lich King as Ner'zhul? The Forsaken obviously have to be included...At least I hope you would count them. The Blood Elves? Who had to flee to Outland because of Arthas and lost the sunwell to him? Well that's three.... Exactly what was the Gnome involvement with Arthas? Or The Draenei?

Wrath never felt favoured towards the Alliance or the Horde to me. If it had been Varien leading the charge against the Scourge and killing the Lich King as Thrall is doing with Deathwing I'd been inclined to agree with you. It wasn't though and I just can't see how Wrath was an Alliance expansion, other then two main characters being human. Even then though the Lich King was half Orc and Tirion always felt neutral.

Edit:

Also I agree with the OP. I don't care if Alliance loses ground. What I do care about is that we get to experience that lose in an equal manor to the Horde experiencing the win.
Wait... so Bolvar wasn't Alliance? He's generally regarded as a better leader than Varian.


Unless the Alliance gets exclusive quests with the new Lich King in MoP, like the Horde are going to get with the newly minted World Shaman, then Bolvar's neutral.
Did you play Wrath of the Lich King?

I understand Cataclysm has been horde heavy in some respects, but let's not rewrite history.


So it's said, the air time that this topic is getting of late is actually starting to get a bit annoying.

I've been perfectly happy with Cataclysm, storywise. It is the strongest WoW has ever been. Yeah, Thrall has been the focus of the main characters, but I actually didn't have a problem with that from the point of view that it was a shaman centred storyline, and the surrounding cast of druids, including Malfurion, and Dragon Aspects, helped balance it out (the Night Elf aspects of these characters have always leant them a strong Alliance affilation).

But the simple fact of all these complaints is that, if you don't like where the story has gone, you simply haven't gelled with the story, and there's nothing more for it. The constant complaining about faction inbalance is getting out of control. For the majority of players out there, it's nothing of the sort, the narratives have been balanced throughout the history of the game, and that Thrall has gained a primary focus in this expansion is actually because of the strong narrative that surrounds him, something which I feel these complaints often miss.

Truthfully, the storytelling, from quests upwards, throughout all the revamped and new zones, are ten times stronger than what they were previously, and it is a testimony to the writers involved in the game that this is the case. I suspect that the sheer improvement in quality to the narratives has caused more of an inbalance in the perception of players than there is an actual one, and it would be nice to see a post that actually acknowledges the hard work that has gone into these storylines (but, alas, this is the WoW forums).

However, if we want to discuss the unfortunate implimentation of tie in novels being used to push large world narratives forward, rather than being done in game, I'm all for that.
11/30/2011 02:50 PMPosted by Tiedstick
I didn't see ONE complaint thread from the Horde in ANY of the previous expansions (I am a true Alliance/Vanilla player and have been a forum reader for a while), even though the ALLIANCE was the one who repeatedly saved Azeroth from inevitable destruction. Perhaps I missed a whole slew of them, but truly, this is the first time I've really even heard of people complaining of "faction favoritism."


Their was a ton of deserved Horde complaints about faction Balance in beta and classic. Please don't try and rewrite history.
It's not about who is, or isn't losing the war. while it's a bit of hurtful pride, it's about HOW the loss is happening.

We're not fighting the war.

We are not PART of any war.

You know what the bulk of alliance questing is? Gathering, and rebuilding things from being destroyed by other alliance races. If you start in the eastern kingdoms, don't even *know* you're at war with the Horde until the 40/50's and even then it's less "At war" and more "cleaning up Scourge" or "Doing the same fetching we've always done in duskwallow, only without the lost diplomat to spice it up"

I'll make you a deal. We get confirmation that the Alliance questing in panda will be the first thing worked on, will get polished first, and they'll leave Horde questing and development for the tail end, like they did to alliance areas in Cata, I'll not say word one until Panda is on store shelves.

For the people who are pulling out the older ex-packs and waving them around like they matter: A company is supposed to LEARN from it's mistakes. It's not supposed to just flip the suck to the other side of their player base and hope no one notices.

Wrath was flawed, there is no question, but Wrath is not run into the ground like Cata is. You know why? Because they put more effort into Wrath. They didn't just take BC buildings and put them on the landscape and hope we couldn't tell. They didn't abandon their new classes or treated us like mindless children. They treated us with respect, and devs didn't talk down to us for voicing our opinions.

And that's what is happening now. Blizzard is acting like the parent who's telling us that smoking is bad for us, but lights up in the car. That drinking is bad, but has whiskey breath.

I personally am tired of the lighthearted and snarky tone from the blues. I'm tired of being talked down too like the oldest at the kiddie table at thanksgiving.
No matter how many times they beat their chests about how they care about the player base, every corpsegrinder, every half arsed dev post, every "Oh we forgot you can't use 60 honor armor in transmog" Every bloody "whoops, what'cha gonna do?" answer.

Proves they do not care about us.

We used to believe it would get better, but they've used the same lines too many times. The fun is being sucked out of this game because the higher ups just Do Not Care.
And that's the real heart of the issue: the Alliance just aren't getting anything. We aren't getting the story, we aren't getting the quests, we aren't getting the content. I don't care if we technically won Ashenvale because we got a few words of text saying we did, rather than actually getting to experience it. I don't care that we lost Andorhal because we just got a few words of text saying we did. I care that all I'm getting for my questing experience is a few words of text.


Maybe it's because I burned through Ashenvale without reading quests (thanks achievement system and built-in quest ignore feature!) but I didn't realize that we'd won Ashenvale. I didn't know we will lost Andorhal (that was intentional) because I haven't done it yet.
11/30/2011 11:37 AMPosted by Enekie
I care that all I'm getting for my questing experience is a few words of text.


/epicfacepalmofthecentury

DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT QUESTS ARE?
11/30/2011 02:55 PMPosted by Kënpachi
I have yet to have heard a non-"Tirion is alliance!" Reason for the horde to think Wrath was alliance bias?


1. Alliance had an exclusive quest with Frostmourne Cavern which showed a flashback of Arthas claiming Frostmourne

2. Alliance had an exclusive quest with Tirion and the Ashbringer in Howling Fjord

3. The Light is an important theme for Wrath as it is the main source of power against the Scourge. Which faction relates more to the Light?

These reasons are similar to why TBC was Horde biased:

1. Horde had an exclusive quest to show a flashback of Mannoroth dying to Garrosh

2. While the Draenei's culture is based around the Arcatraz ships and Auchidon, the Blood Elves and it's culture was shown more often.

3. Horde had a cool scene with Thrall coming to Garadar
My issue is that...Alliance has not really grown or changed much currently...it is just like....there.

The horde has Thrall become this great important dragon slayer like person, Garossh (or w/e you spell it) became the new leader and tensions are high in the horde. Sylvannas has been a bad girl. etc. etc.

Nothing has...happened with alliance.

The leaders are just...there.

Even with the death and implementation of the new IF leaders..not much has happened because of that.

We are just....there
11/30/2011 03:36 PMPosted by Korlek
I care that all I'm getting for my questing experience is a few words of text.


/epicfacepalmofthecentury

DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT QUESTS ARE?


There are varying degrees of quests. Some quests are better than others. Surely you wouldn't want to trade in the grand Thrall questline in Nagrand for the four lines of text that the Alliance got for the return of the magic to Night Elf Society.
I have yet to have heard a non-"Tirion is alliance!" Reason for the horde to think Wrath was alliance bias?


1. Alliance had an exclusive quest with Frostmourne Cavern which showed a flashback of Arthas claiming Frostmourne

2. Alliance had an exclusive quest with Tirion and the Ashbringer in Howling Fjord

3. The Light is an important theme for Wrath as it is the main source of power against the Scourge. Which faction relates more to the Light?

These reasons are similar to why TBC was Horde biased:

1. Horde had an exclusive quest to show a flashback of Mannoroth dying to Garrosh

2. While the Draenei's culture is based around the Arcatraz ships and Auchidon, the Blood Elves and it's culture was shown more often.

3. Horde had a cool scene with Thrall coming to Garadar


1. I'll see that and counter that with the exclusive fight between Thrall and Garrosh.

2. You mean the epic go and grab secret item and return it to me quest? Yeah it was'nt very epic. Your kind of reaching here....

3. Now your REALLY reaching.....The Light was not used even remotely as much in wraith as it was during JUST the Sunwell, which was mostly a Blood Elf favored quest line.

Just a quick question to all you Horde. Do you think that the Scarlet Crusade were Alliance?
11/30/2011 03:24 PMPosted by Sváfa
Wait... so Bolvar wasn't Alliance? He's generally regarded as a better leader than Varian.


Yes, he was Alliance. One of the best characters we had. Now his original quest lines are gone, many of his earlier achievements stolen to retcon Varian, and Bolvar sits atop a mountain, frozen in ice.

Okay, Varian is faceless, menaingless, empty, and Magni (my king, TYVM) is turned nto a big stalgmite.

But I'll take that ANY DAY over Garrosh -- a dishonourable thug with the finesse and intelligence of a rock. At least if the Horde is goign full-evil, go with Sylvanas. She KNOWS evil. :)

I've always seen Thrall as a counterpart to Bolvar (although less burnt and frzen in ice). In fact, I've never complaiend about Thrall, other than his being Metzen's avatar.

For me, the issue isn't Thrall.

One issue is losing ground to the horde with no in-game reaction or story for the Alliance.

The second issue: Blizzard's blatant, constant, excessive pro-horde rudeness toward Alliance players, particularly at Blizzcon.

Who is the prominent Blizzard employee who is openly and proudly Alliance? Samwise, Metzen, Fargo... the list goes on of Blizzard employees who cheer "For the Horde" and egg the crowd on to be rude against the Alliance. And Morhaime's apology for the homophobic rant was empty and week. Someone should have had their butt fired for allowing that to be broadcast.

Yes, I watched most fo Blizzcon 2011, and 2010.

Alliance players pay their $12-15 every month, just like Horde.

Expansions should give both factions EQUAL treatment. I though LK did that fairly well.

But my beloved Draenei feels pretty damned ignored, lore-wise, in and out of the game. I don't play a Worgen because it's very clear they're an afterthought, with incomplete questlines and no in-game presence of note.

When I see a Blizzard employee leading cheers for the Alliance, when I see in-game presences like Elite Tauren band, when I see equal effort put into an Alliance characters (Jaina, Tyrande?), then I'll stop ranting. Promise.

Oh, and Blizzard? Want to make the Alliance stand out? Make its women something other than arm candy. Give Tyrande and Jaina meaty, menaiful, REAL roles, hell, have them kick Varian's butt for allowing Ashenvale and Theramore to burn. I may be a dude, but I'd love to see a GOOD female leader take on the horde.
11/30/2011 03:36 PMPosted by Ceejay
I have yet to have heard a non-"Tirion is alliance!" Reason for the horde to think Wrath was alliance bias?


1. Alliance had an exclusive quest with Frostmourne Cavern which showed a flashback of Arthas claiming Frostmourne

2. Alliance had an exclusive quest with Tirion and the Ashbringer in Howling Fjord

3. The Light is an important theme for Wrath as it is the main source of power against the Scourge. Which faction relates more to the Light?

These reasons are similar to why TBC was Horde biased:

1. Horde had an exclusive quest to show a flashback of Mannoroth dying to Garrosh

2. While the Draenei's culture is based around the Arcatraz ships and Auchidon, the Blood Elves and it's culture was shown more often.

3. Horde had a cool scene with Thrall coming to Garadar


The Thrall quest line in Nagrand had no equivilent on the Alliance side.

The Frostmourne quest was part of a questline that served to introduce the Frostborn and Muradin. The Horde got an extensive quest chain to introduce the Taunka.

The latter is an example of how things should be done. The former is the philosophy that's driving Cataclysm. Just because one side gets a cool quest line doesn't mean that the other side can't have a similarly cool quest. Unless it's Cataclysm and you need to rush an unfinished product out the door to make it before Christmas.
Yep till Pandas. 5.0 we get to watch Theramore get burned. Watch not participate.
11/30/2011 01:23 PMPosted by Dirtyturban
Lets face it, the alliance is just not that interesting.


you ever stop and wonder why?..this is in the hands of blizzard and so far they have shown either a lack of attention or complete and utter laziness..i'll leave it to you to figure out which one

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum