LFR loot rules are totally broken

General Discussion
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my only problem with the system is that when you kill a boss on LFR recieving Gold counts as ur loot for the boss, so if nothing for you class drops (i.e. your a priest and nothing but plate drops and/or hunter, warrior, shaman token drops) you pass on it and still get locked to boss that didnt have loot for you


You pointed out the reason in the rest of your post. Technically, it's the same issue as the example I covered with hunters rolling on a two-handed Strength weapons. Spirit is a DPS stat for some classes which, therefore, means items with Spirit are flagged for healing and DPS. This is exactly what I mean by the system needing to be more intelligent.


But CLOTH spirit isn't used for DPS. That should be flagged only for healers, unless it already is.


Uhhh, it is for spriests.
my only problem with the system is that when you kill a boss on LFR recieving Gold counts as ur loot for the boss, so if nothing for you class drops (i.e. your a priest and nothing but plate drops and/or hunter, warrior, shaman token drops) you pass on it and still get locked to boss that didnt have loot for you


Whether you won anything or not, you still looted the boss. This lock out is to make you keep playing to have a chance at the carrot next week. Everyone should know this by now.
12/08/2011 05:05 PMPosted by Knockboots
In the mean time players should just roll on items they need and stop being douches.


This!

Remember kids, it only takes one D-bag to ruin the party for everyone!
I see that this thread has received much popularity and blue responses. I'd like to share a post I made elsewhere so that it can receive a wider audience.

From...

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3657284221


TLDR Version:
Please adjust LFR loot rules so that less abuse occurs in the runs. For example, players are able to roll on things their class clearly should not be able to roll on (and with bonuses). Fellow players, please help me illustrate my point and express your interest in this matter.

Long Version:
I browsed through a number of pages and search results and couldn't find an articulate, general enough thread on the matter. All I found were many posts describing a kind of frustration with the system while venting about a particular incident without much content.

So, I'd just like to ask the team at Blizzard to fix the Raid Finder loot system so that loot is more appropriately rolled for. I've read things about CLASSES (not SPECS) receiving items they clearly should not use. I've even been able to roll Need for +str items (at least a trinket, and of course I have not done so). This amount of flexibility just doesn't make sense and it's unfair to many players. It's best that this issue is fixed as soon as possible.

To illustrate the matter further, here's a post I saw from the MMO Champion forums:

I'd swear half of the people in LFR now roll NEED on anything that will let them, wether they actually need the gear, have it already or whatever.

My LFR today had a piece of armour locked in a chest, because the person who won its bags were full and he said he didn't really need it / couldn't be bothered to trade it. Nobody could then have that armour, people didnt want to kick him in case he changed his mind.

The Dagger dropped from Deathwing (which i wanted /cry), and was won by a Warrior :| who ALSO then won the polearm. Then he said he didn't really need them, he just wanted to win something and then left the group.

I looked through the roll lists though and this wasn't a one off case, infact LOADS of people were rolling on everything no matter how suited it was to them.

Are people trading with guildies from the group after? Are they just [upset] that they havn't won anything so would rather the gold than someone else have an item? Is LFR just full of people that have no clue what gear they should have anyway? I don't get the mentality.


In my most recent raid Kiril, Fury of Beasts dropped and I saw players roll on it when they clearly should not have. I would have been furious to see someone take such an upgrade away from those of us who actually would have regularly used the item. Thankfully a fellow hunter won the item and I was glad to see that someone who could actually use it appropriately received it.

I urge Blizzard to realize the abuse that may intentionally or unintentionally be happening thanks to the rolls of our fellow players. Whether we really want to acknowledge it so openly or not, this community is far from perfect and a great number of our fellow players will abuse the system or use it without care for their fellow player. The kind of behavior that has occurred in LFR raids with this current system is the type that gets players blacklisted on servers were it to happen in a normal raid.

Fixing the problem will undoubtedly prevent unncessary harm to many, many players. It will also likely decrease the number of tickets made and time wasted dealing with them (while I know GMs normally don't deal with ninja looting, it would be hard not to ticket and see if SOMETHING could be done).

Thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it.
Maybe they can't "afford" to fix it.
12/08/2011 08:35 PMPosted by Quard

You pointed out the reason in the rest of your post. Technically, it's the same issue as the example I covered with hunters rolling on a two-handed Strength weapons. Spirit is a DPS stat for some classes which, therefore, means items with Spirit are flagged for healing and DPS. This is exactly what I mean by the system needing to be more intelligent.


But CLOTH spirit isn't used for DPS. That should be flagged only for healers, unless it already is.


Wrong. And I don't claim to know everything about every class, but I do play a priest as well and Spirit = Spell Hit
There have been a huge number of threads concerning this issue. It's not right and players knew/know it's not right. Now, Blizz finally realizes it's not right. So, to all you wanna be moderators out there that made statements such as "Quit crying" and my favorite one " The loot system is working as intended," ha ha to you. Can you see me laughing at you? People came on these forums for help and most were ridiculed for it. Shame on you! SO, pretty soon you little loot ninjas are gonna be shot down and I'm loving it.
Why not flag the items with their main aspect.

Weapons only:

Str 1h with dodge and/or parry - plate tank
Str 1h with mastery and hit or expertise - plate tank or dps
Str 1h with haste and/or crit - plate dps
Str 2h with mastery and hit or expertise - plate dps or DK tank
Str 2h with haste and/or crit - plate dps

Agi 1h - rogue or shaman
Agi 2h - hunter or druid

Int with hit - caster dps
int with spirit - healer and balance druid and ele shaman
int without hit or spirit - any caster

the basic working is each weapon would have one of the tags on it, and then when the loot shows up to be rolled on, your class (or even spec) and role would check the tags it is able to roll need on.
The funny thing is, these problems didn't exist before LFG and LFR. You put a group together and didn't dare ninja an item, because you would actually get a reputation on your server. Now, you'll probably never see those 24 other people again, so who cares!? OMG NEED!


I'll be honest that's not true at all. I have been in so many BH runs where loot is stolen. It was the same in wrath also. Ya you get bad rep but they can always transfer off or sometimes a simple name change has done the trick. Loot distribution was never fair in pugs.

I have been in normal raids and when we got to the boss the leader wanted if his item dropped (seen it happen multiple times) they would loot it and logoff instantly. It's always been a problem. I guess it might be a little worse now because everyone can need roll instead of 1 guy looting something to himself or a friend.


I'm referring to before the implementation of LFG in WotLK. Even in your example, that's ONE person that might ninja the loot, as opposed to any number of the 24 people in LFR now. Before LFG/LFR, if you were smart enough to make the RL type loot rules at the start of a raid, all you had to do was put in a ticket to get the item to the correct person. The thought of trying to do that for an item ninjaed in LFR is laughable.

I'll agree that loot distribution has never been great in pugs, but it is much worse in LFR than anything before.

Edit: It seems that this is a case of Blizzard getting ahead of themselves. They implemented LFR without ensuring that all of the supporting systems were updated. I would've rather seen LFR delayed a month or two to get the loot system correct than deal with the ninjafest that is LFR right now.
I love the 15+ people that have corrected the person on the shadow priest hit thing by now. I think he gets it.
12/09/2011 10:07 AMPosted by Draenybrit
Why all the continued discussion?


I'm not sure, maybe "General Discussion" has something to do with.

12/09/2011 10:07 AMPosted by Draenybrit
Isn't the 'it's not good enough and we plan to make it more intelligent' enough for you guys?


Sure, but there is nothing wrong with suggesting ways to accomplish just that.
People think that just because it is LFR and everyone is from another server that they can need roll and things that they cannot use. such as the Dk with agility trinks and the Hunter with Str Trinks... I could say the same thing about the Teir tokens.. but meh.. my token is good for hunters and mages I think. So if I dont wing my teir token then someone that has also needed it... most times.

Here is something that has pissed me off about the LFR... the other day I come in... do the fights.. dont die at all until the last boss, one of teh guys said " Hell no dont rez the nubs."... To top it off, when the fight was over and we were looting the guy was saying crap like. " Dead ppl shouldnt get to loot this fight, you were dead!".. well bunghole you didnt Rez us either.
I saw a good idea in another thread and figured I'd post it here just in case a Blue is still reading.


Would it be possible to make all loot designated for LFR to not be tradeable, disenchantable, or sellable in the instance that a player selects NEED for the item? If all you could do by winning the loot is delete it from your bag, people would stop needing on it when they can't use it.
I saw a good idea in another thread and figured I'd post it here just in case a Blue is still reading.


Would it be possible to make all loot designated for LFR to not be tradeable, disenchantable, or sellable in the instance that a player selects NEED for the item? If all you could do by winning the loot is delete it from your bag, people would stop needing on it when they can't use it.


As evidenced by some of the posters in this thread, people would still need on items they can't use just to be d*cks. There are far more effective ways to resolve this issue.
(We should really find ways for the game to say "okie dokie" in your chat log.)


i think you meant to say Okie-Dokie-Loki!
Would it be possible to make all loot designated for LFR to not be tradeable, disenchantable, or sellable in the instance that a player selects NEED for the item? If all you could do by winning the loot is delete it from your bag, people would stop needing on it when they can't use it.


It would be easier and more efficient to initially make that character ineligible to roll need on the item instead.
12/09/2011 10:44 AMPosted by Stubb
Would it be possible to make all loot designated for LFR to not be tradeable, disenchantable, or sellable in the instance that a player selects NEED for the item? If all you could do by winning the loot is delete it from your bag, people would stop needing on it when they can't use it.


It would be easier and more efficient to initially make that character ineligible to roll need on the item instead.



Well, that seems to be the more obvious fix, but it makes me wonder how easy it would be if they didn't implement it in the first place. As for a hot fix to get rid of this sort of thing for now, the idea I posted seems like it would be fast and easy.. though that assumption may be way off.


And to the person saying that people would do it anyway, after the first boss, when people get kicked for doing it, the rest of the raid should go a lot smoother. :)

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