LFR loot rules are totally broken

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Just curious but is this something that could be reported and resolved by a Bliz GM?

- P


GM won't touch a legit need roll win.
Lost tank sword to dps. :). I don't mind, I'll get it another time.... but gah. I guess it's to hard to make "blah item = tank priority" "BLah item = healer priority". :)
12/08/2011 08:32 PMPosted by Zarhym
So when exactly do you expect we will see this so called intelligence?

It depends on the situation. Players are describing a few different unfavorable scenarios with the current implementation. Each of those scenarios might call for a very different approach. Each approach could require a vastly different amount of development/programming time.

There are some loot scenarios that can potentially be improved via hotfixes, if the idea is to manually set up different flagging on specific items. Larger changes to the way the loot system functions though, with regard to what information it's able to recall while determining eligibility and bonus roles, will have to be done via patches.


My question is, why did you release something that everyone (If we'll just count PTRers and Blizz) knew was broken? That's not the blizzard I know...
As a Shadow there is only 1 off hand that falls in LFR-- as a shadow I do not get any bonus rolling on it-- So for Ultraxion I would have to queue as a healer and need on it to ever have a chance to get it.

I do not want to have to heal for a piece of equipment that would help my dps. But I probably will if I do not get it in normal raid.
12/09/2011 09:03 PMPosted by Cutanaga
My question is, why did you release something that everyone (If we'll just count PTRers and Blizz) knew was broken? That's not the blizzard I know...


Because something is better than nothing. It would be worse if they didn't at least add the current restrictions.
12/09/2011 09:01 PMPosted by Irishka
Lost tank sword to dps. :). I don't mind, I'll get it another time...

This is a slightly different can of worms.

In their infinite wisdom, Blizzard decided to only put two (2, TWO) different strength 1-handed weapons into 4.3. One of these is off of Morchok, the other is off of Deathwing. Because it is from Deathwing, the Souldrinker is almost invariably the better of the two weapons due to its higher item level (and therefore damage range and stat budget).

So, you've got two STR weapons. One is clearly better, both for tanking and for DPS. On top of that, they decided to not have the Hand of Morchok drop in LFR. This leaves an LFR Frost DK or SMF Warrior to roll on the Souldrinker, and only the Souldrinker, because there isn't any other weapon for them to want.

Really terrible itemization, making War/Pal tanks and 2/3 plate DPS classes/specs all compete for one single weapon drop for the last content push of Cataclysm.
12/09/2011 09:03 PMPosted by Cutanaga

It depends on the situation. Players are describing a few different unfavorable scenarios with the current implementation. Each of those scenarios might call for a very different approach. Each approach could require a vastly different amount of development/programming time.

There are some loot scenarios that can potentially be improved via hotfixes, if the idea is to manually set up different flagging on specific items. Larger changes to the way the loot system functions though, with regard to what information it's able to recall while determining eligibility and bonus roles, will have to be done via patches.


My question is, why did you release something that everyone (If we'll just count PTRers and Blizz) knew was broken? That's not the blizzard I know...


Its not 2004 anymore. This whole expac has been about taking shortcuts and trying to max profit. Too bad its totally backfired in there face with all the lost subs.


My question is, why did you release something that everyone (If we'll just count PTRers and Blizz) knew was broken? That's not the blizzard I know...


Its not 2004 anymore. This whole expac has been about taking shortcuts and trying to max profit. Too bad its totally backfired in there face with all the lost subs.


s'ppose you're right, they barely fix anything on the ptr anyway unless it's absolutely gamebreaking...
12/09/2011 09:08 PMPosted by Verz
Lost tank sword to dps. :). I don't mind, I'll get it another time...

This is a slightly different can of worms.

In their infinite wisdom, Blizzard decided to only put two (2, TWO) different strength 1-handed weapons into 4.3. One of these is off of Morchok, the other is off of Deathwing. Because it is from Deathwing, the Souldrinker is almost invariably the better of the two weapons due to its higher item level (and therefore damage range and stat budget).

So, you've got two STR weapons. One is clearly better, both for tanking and for DPS. On top of that, they decided to not have the Hand of Morchok drop in LFR. This leaves an LFR Frost DK or SMF Warrior to roll on the Souldrinker, and only the Souldrinker, because there isn't any other weapon for them to want.

Really terrible itemization, making War/Pal tanks and 2/3 plate DPS classes/specs all compete for one single weapon drop for the last content push of Cataclysm.


It was worse in 4.2 "You want a good weapon? Good luck finding an Obsidium Cleaver"
I totally agree that the LFR loot rules are completely messed up and need to be fixed.

Scenario (which occurred to me over a couple of different characters when doing LFR):
-Did the LFR on my shadow priest. Got to Yor'sahj and the trinket "insignia of the corrupted mind" dropped. I thought awesome, perfect for a spriest, and I only had like 7 other CASTER DPS to roll against. Well, we all rolled, and who won it? A RETRIBUTION PALLY.....really??? REALLY??????? I scrolled up to look at rolls and he won the roll with a ROLE BONUS....W T F? How, exactly HOW is this fair? So I think about it a minute....I'm like hmmm, ok MAYBE it's because it's a trinket, and EVERYONE can equip trinkets? RIGHT? Um, no....because later on the same toon we got to Fall of DW and a strength trinket dropped and I couldn't roll need on it. So why can a pally roll need on a caster dps trinket, but a shadow priest can't roll need on a melee trinket? And dont say it's because pallies can be casters - because a holy pally is NOT caster DPS....

Please Blizz, please fix this. It's bad enough we have to SUFFER through the LFR system with STUPID PEOPLE who come in and either AFK out, or they conveniently DIE on the first trash pull before the boss and then roll on loot.
I totally agree that the LFR loot rules are completely messed up and need to be fixed.

Scenario (which occurred to me over a couple of different characters when doing LFR):
-Did the LFR on my shadow priest. Got to Yor'sahj and the trinket "insignia of the corrupted mind" dropped. I thought awesome, perfect for a spriest, and I only had like 7 other CASTER DPS to roll against. Well, we all rolled, and who won it? A RETRIBUTION PALLY.....really??? REALLY??????? I scrolled up to look at rolls and he won the roll with a ROLE BONUS....W T F? How, exactly HOW is this fair? So I think about it a minute....I'm like hmmm, ok MAYBE it's because it's a trinket, and EVERYONE can equip trinkets? RIGHT? Um, no....because later on the same toon we got to Fall of DW and a strength trinket dropped and I couldn't roll need on it. So why can a pally roll need on a caster dps trinket, but a shadow priest can't roll need on a melee trinket? And dont say it's because pallies can be casters - because a holy pally is NOT caster DPS....

Please Blizz, please fix this. It's bad enough we have to SUFFER through the LFR system with STUPID PEOPLE who come in and either AFK out, or they conveniently DIE on the first trash pull before the boss and then roll on loot.


Blizz already stated (in this very thread) that they are aware of these problems and are working on fixing it.
also i don't think this has been mentioned yet if so i appoligize but a guildie just told me that he had someone switching they gear when it came time to roll into lower gear to get higher loot bonuses and they win all the loot because of the lower loot.
I would be willing to beleive there is something fishy about the rolls... When people dc someone will always win 2items in a row, they actually win the rolls... The rolls do seem to favor "bad" players, those who have less dps... It's very weird and also hard to prove...
So is it proven that u get an increased loot bonus roll when u have crappy dps n crappier gear?? IDK but hopefully blizz fixes it soon.
... To use the OP's example, if a Strength weapon drops and a hunter rolls on it, the system says "Yep, a DPS player is rolling on it. Okie dokie. Here's your +100." ...


Respectfully, the system can't be quite that braindead. In current dungeons, A hunter can roll need on strength DPS gear, but can't roll need on caster intelligence DPS gear.

An example of this might be the following:

Sta / Agi necklace: hunter can need
Sta / Str necklace: hunter can need
Sta / int necklace: hunter can't need

So the system currently has some sense of class distinction. It just doesn't have everything straight.

Just out of curiosity, if any rogues and/or feral druids are looking in, do you guys get the chance to roll need on Strength gear?
12/09/2011 10:43 PMPosted by Christie
... To use the OP's example, if a Strength weapon drops and a hunter rolls on it, the system says "Yep, a DPS player is rolling on it. Okie dokie. Here's your +100." ...


Respectfully, the system can't be quite that braindead. In current dungeons, A hunter can roll need on strength DPS gear, but can't roll need on caster intelligence DPS gear.

An example of this might be the following:

Sta / Agi necklace: hunter can need
Sta / Str necklace: hunter can need
Sta / int necklace: hunter can't need

So the system currently has some sense of class distinction. It just doesn't have everything straight.

Just out of curiosity, if any rogues and/or feral druids are looking in, do you guys get the chance to roll need on Strength gear?


Yes, Rogues and Ferals can roll need on Strength gear. They shouldn't be able to, but they can. I have repeated and directly asked the following several times in this thread:

If the system is smart enough to prevent all warriors from pushing "need" on anything with int/spirit, why on earth can it not be smart enough to disallow hunters and druids to "need" anything with strength, and similarly disallow death knights, paladins, and warriors to "need" on anything with agility?

Blue responses have ignored it.
Just won the gauntlets of the corrupted protector and they didn't appear in my inventory. Petitioned a GM, and they replied with "Sorry, we won't reimburse the item. We know this is an issue, but we will not reimburse".

Thanks again Blizzard. See ya.

Yes, Rogues and Ferals can roll need on Strength gear. They shouldn't be able to, but they can. I have repeated and directly asked the following several times in this thread:

If the system is smart enough to prevent all warriors from pushing "need" on anything with int/spirit, why on earth can it not be smart enough to disallow hunters and druids to "need" anything with strength, and similarly disallow death knights, paladins, and warriors to "need" on anything with agility?

Blue responses have ignored it.


Yeah, it's silly.. the coding needed for this is super simple.. in fact, I've already written the concept: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3657444923?page=21#420
Hey folks,

So, just to be clear, we're certainly aware that the loot system in Raid Finder needs to be smarter, as there's currently not a way for the system to determine loot eligibility based on talent specialization or class.


Sorry Zarhym. It sucks that you have to make excuses for your game when it is really a stupid and inconsiderate player base that is the problem. It sucks that your dev team has to spend so much resources protecting the player base from their own selfish tendencies and their need for immediate gratification.

Keep your resume up to date bro. Some time in the next year, a lot of you guys are going to need them. See ya.
12/09/2011 09:55 PMPosted by Smarties
I would be willing to beleive there is something fishy about the rolls... When people dc someone will always win 2items in a row, they actually win the rolls... The rolls do seem to favor "bad" players, those who have less dps... It's very weird and also hard to prove...


I agree with your "people dc someone will always win 2 items in a row" idea, but it's usually them winning the same piece of tier loot twice in a row from different bosses.

I see the opposite happening with your dps idea. When I'm on my warrior, I'm always within the top three dps and I still get the occasional loot. When I'm not doing so well on my hunter, I lose agility items to death knights.

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