LFR loot rules are totally broken

General Discussion
Prev 1 8 9 10 26 Next
12/08/2011 08:03 PMPosted by Wonderviess
Why not just setup restrictions based on class. You don't need it to recognize spec.


Cause the way classes are designed with hybrids you might be able to use 2h as ret but not useful for holy or prot, using paladin as example. If trinkets and such were listed as class only that would prevent rolls from classes that don't use that stat to help them do better.
Currently, the system can tell whether a player is

+ a tank
+ a healer
+ a DPS

+plate
+mail
+leather
+cloth

Therefore..

strength-based items, without tank stats should be NEED+ by plate/dps only.
strength-based items with tank stats should be NEED+ by plate/tanks only.
items with +spirit should be NEED+ for leather/dps, mail/dps, and any healer.. but not cloth/DPS.
items with agility should be NEED+ for leather/dps mail/dps and leather/tank

tank trinkets should be NEED+ for tanks only, same for all other trinkets.

This would eliminate most of the issues without adding tests for class and spec. The only remaining problems would be druid and shaman DPS, who have two very different types of DPS that cannot be distinguished without testing for spec.

Another choice would be to have the system change eligibility after-the-fact. That is, a person who rolls need on agility becomes ineligible for need+ on strength and intellect. This would also have flaws/possible issues with people getting confused, or not being able to roll for off-spec until something main-spec drops. but it would be a trade-off between letting some specs get a bonus on items that aren't in their spec.
I know this is completely unrealistic, but I'd like to see it account for ilevel of your gear. Agi axe dropped off Madness when I was on my enhancement shaman, it's a massive upgrade for me. Rogue in the group with the first part of the legendary daggers wins, then asks if someone will trade them rogue gear for it, or buy it if they have gold on their realm. Needless to say, I was a little miffed. It's bad enough people taking gear they can't use, but people taking gear to sell? It's downright sleazy and should be accounted for.
12/08/2011 06:50 PMPosted by Spinnerdh
So when exactly do you expect we will see this so called intelligence?

It depends on the situation. Players are describing a few different unfavorable scenarios with the current implementation. Each of those scenarios might call for a very different approach. Each approach could require a vastly different amount of development/programming time.

There are some loot scenarios that can potentially be improved via hotfixes, if the idea is to manually set up different flagging on specific items. Larger changes to the way the loot system functions though, with regard to what information it's able to recall while determining eligibility and bonus roles, will have to be done via patches.
12/08/2011 05:36 PMPosted by Zarhym
One thing I'd love to see addressed is for example on madness, if 2x the same weapon drops, it would be nice if there was a way that both drops didn't go to the same person.

We recognize the issue with duplicate drops being won by the same person as well. This is something we need to fix.


What about people who do need both weapons?
12/08/2011 06:38 PMPosted by Zarhym
What about the issue where DPS are getting the +100 roll on spirit gear, which should have obviously been marked for the healing role?

You pointed out the reason in the rest of your post. Technically, it's the same issue as the example I covered with hunters rolling on a two-handed Strength weapons. Spirit is a DPS stat for some classes which, therefore, means items with Spirit are flagged for healing and DPS. This is exactly what I mean by the system needing to be more intelligent.


But CLOTH spirit isn't used for DPS. That should be flagged only for healers, unless it already is.
12/08/2011 08:32 PMPosted by Zarhym
So when exactly do you expect we will see this so called intelligence?

It depends on the situation. Players are describing a few different unfavorable scenarios with the current implementation. Each of those scenarios might call for a very different approach. Each approach could require a vastly different amount of development/programming time.

There are some loot scenarios that can potentially be improved via hotfixes, if the idea is to manually set up different flagging on specific items. Larger changes to the way the loot system functions though, with regard to what information it's able to recall while determining eligibility and bonus roles, will have to be done via patches.


Zahrym come on bud it isn't that difficult from a programming perspective. When the item is made it is put into a database. When an item is created it is designed for certain class / spec combo's. Why not just add another 2 database fields into the existing Database and have the designers put in the potential class / spec use in that field. Going backwards is no where near doable due to the sheer size of the Oracle DB you run. But going forward it should be a very easy task for the item design team to add to the existing database.

If your class / spec is listed in the db then you get to roll. There is little dev time. The hardest part of that is to add them to the DB and create the fields in an already existing DB which is not all that hard either.

It can be hot fixed pretty easily if done right. The work behind the hot fix will be no small task though with regards to adding items to the Database. I suggest starting from Cata on up. Slap an intern on it and GG.
This has probably already been said, but I fail to see why RF items can't just be flagged for the classes who are intended to be using them similar to how tokens are. It doesn't sound like that complicated of an issue to mostly resolve.

Sure it won't fix elemental shamans rolling on agility axes, but it prevents Fury warriors from needing on the Deathwing Bow.
12/08/2011 08:35 PMPosted by Quard

You pointed out the reason in the rest of your post. Technically, it's the same issue as the example I covered with hunters rolling on a two-handed Strength weapons. Spirit is a DPS stat for some classes which, therefore, means items with Spirit are flagged for healing and DPS. This is exactly what I mean by the system needing to be more intelligent.


But CLOTH spirit isn't used for DPS. That should be flagged only for healers, unless it already is.


Cloth spirit is used for dps, shadow priest use spirit on thier gear. increase their hit.
12/08/2011 05:05 PMPosted by Knockboots
In the mean time players should just roll on items they need and stop being douches.


All and all ! what this person said!
i have to say, i hope this gets fixed fast, a hunter just took the 2h strength sword off deathwing to be a jerk and left the raid immediately. if you let things like this happen for very long at all, it could completely kill LFR for a lot of people.

i really like the idea of LFR, but the fact that you didn't tighten up the loot rules before you released it to prevent people from %!%*ing each other over is a serious oversight.
12/08/2011 08:32 PMPosted by Ladynishi
'd like to see it account for ilevel of your gear



There are a few problems with this idea. In some cases 384 level item > different 384 item is an upgrade. Now let's suppose I can't roll on 384 item if I have a 391 item. But I have a crappy healer trinket and the Heart of Unliving drops in LFR.. it's an upgrade even though the item level is lower than the one I have, and now I can't roll on it. Now let's suppose these issues don't exist at all.. but someone wants to be a douche and roll on items to sell/de/vendor them anyway. They equip lower-level items instead of their good gear and now they are eligible for whatever they want.

In other words, changing the system will only hurt the honest players and won't prevent the ninja's from doing whatever they want. Worse, it might encourage honest players to not use their best gear if doing so means they can't roll on an upgrade.
12/08/2011 08:32 PMPosted by Zarhym
So when exactly do you expect we will see this so called intelligence?

It depends on the situation. Players are describing a few different unfavorable scenarios with the current implementation. Each of those scenarios might call for a very different approach. Each approach could require a vastly different amount of development/programming time.

There are some loot scenarios that can potentially be improved via hotfixes, if the idea is to manually set up different flagging on specific items. Larger changes to the way the loot system functions though, with regard to what information it's able to recall while determining eligibility and bonus roles, will have to be done via patches.


But this issue has been going on since Wrath, when hunters could take tank/str trinkets or str weapons or warriors/dk's taking ag rings,trinkets, etc. in the LFD and including Cata dungeons now. LFD has been around while now, how long does it take to fix an issue like this?

Now in all fairness there wasn't as much complaining when only rare gear was dropping (Wrath reg and heroics) that no one wanted, but now with epics in LFR it becomes an issue that seems to be addressed. Was this an issue that was just over looked until it came to the forefront? Meaning, "we will worry about it when they finally get upset about it"?
What about the situation when people have better Gear, or have full Tier P for every of their spec, still rolling on the Tier Piece. Well, a lot of people will be pissed. It not happening now, but it will eventually.
12/08/2011 08:42 PMPosted by Imuatu
'd like to see it account for ilevel of your gear



There are a few problems with this idea. In some cases 384 level item > different 384 item is an upgrade. Now let's suppose I can't roll on 384 item if I have a 391 item. But I have a crappy healer trinket and the Heart of Unliving drops in LFR.. it's an upgrade even though the item level is lower than the one I have, and now I can't roll on it. Now let's suppose these issues don't exist at all.. but someone wants to be a douche and roll on items to sell/de/vendor them anyway. They equip lower-level items instead of their good gear and now they are eligible for whatever they want.

In other words, changing the system will only hurt the honest players and won't prevent the ninja's from doing whatever they want. Worse, it might encourage honest players to not use their best gear if doing so means they can't roll on an upgrade.


I know, that's why it's completely unrealistic. Perhaps make it so LFR items can only be DE'd by the roll system and can't be vendored. It would atleast get a few people to stop rolling for the sole purpose of getting a shard or some gold via need roll.
12/08/2011 08:43 PMPosted by Lopin
but now with epics in LFR it becomes an issue that seems to be addressed. Was this an issue that was just over looked until it came to the forefront? Meaning, "we will worry about it when they finally get upset about it"?


You hit the nail on the head.
DK in my last LFR ninja'd the agility trink. Seems to be working as designed.
I think developers of LFR knows some ppl are retarded. That's why they add+100system.
However,the retarded are underestimated. They just !@#$ing need everything if they can use the need button.
Tell me about it. The 2h sword off of Nef got taken from my ret pally by a prot pally; I rolled 171 he rolled 172. He also took the 1h sword which he already had the 403 version of.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum