I will never go back to normal raiding again.

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12/07/2011 06:22 PMPosted by Eco
I think that many players should be able to do Dragon Soul if they earn that spot. When it comes to killing Deathwing it should be an accomplishment for top guilds only, at least for the first few months. This isn't Diablo 2 where everyone should get to see Deathwing, but instead it should be for players who earned it.

Blizzard disagrees with you. And your experience in Normal and Heroic difficulties is not hampered at all by the Raid Finder difficulty.

It's good that so many are calling you out for your elitist behaviors. It is not reasonable at all.
12/07/2011 06:15 PMPosted by Catisforfite
(i know they do it because the majority of the subcriber base isn't good enough to do normal bosses with a guild)
I don't think so.

I have seen many many raiders that absolutely suck at this game. It's just that the way the community works, it doesn't matter how good you are. if you don't have the achieve you are not getting into any raid. That is s serious problem.

This has been my experience.

Get to 85, farm heroics for 346 gear. Try to join a raiding guild. Get turned down because I need to be 355+ and be at a minimum X/12.

4.1 comes, I do troll heroics and get to 355 rather easily. By this point my item level doesn't matter. I need to be 12/12 or "Be ignored"

4.2. I get to Item level 363 literally by day two. I am now better geared than people that have been farming normal T-11. I try to join a guild/pug for T-12 and I read. 'LFM. FL, must be 12/12 and be 355+". I try to join a raiding guild and it's the same deal. They want people with current progression.

4.3, now to get into a raid people require 7/7 achieve. I have done the raid on the PTR. Morchok is a joke, even on normal mode. Avoid black goo, stand behind spikes and range DPS through cracks. When little crystals form just go stand on top of them and if you see a red line on you then you really need to be standing next to it. Why in the hell do you need 7/7 exp for that?

I also try to form my own groups. Little did I know that you get hardly any responses if you do not link your own achieve. People also tend to ignore you if you don't require it in your recruiting.

So yeah, this community as a whole makes breaking into raids near impossible. Now imagine how the devs feel when they spend all this time creating raids in hopes that we will enjoy it, then see that only 5%-10% of the population ever sees it? It would be tough to justify the cost and time to create something if so few ever experience it.

If anything, all these complainers should be happy. For all we know, raids may have been about to go by the wayside or be severely gutted and the LFR is one final attempt to spark interest.

Not to mention that now, people like me can raid without being excluded for the simple fact that some want to feel special like they are a part of some little club.
I got DW today as well and loved it - mirroring the OP it was probably the most fun I've had in WoW. Some jerks came and went, but there were two guys that really helped walk our group through the strategy for the last two fights and it was a ton of fun. Just 1-2 people can make all the difference for 23-24 others if they're willing to put themselves out there.

And yeah, that doesn't mean I'm done with LFR either like some people seem to suggest. I'll go back for more gear, then go back to gear up my DPS spec, then my healer alt, etc. etc.

LFR is awesome.

Perhaps the OP has other goals, or you don't have to a particular goal in the game to have fun. OH SNAP!

Some people do not have the time to progress through normal or heroic raids, so your answer is that they shouldn't have any access at all? Why? It's not like it affects your experience in the Normal and Heroic difficulties. In fact, perhaps nerfs will be less common thanks to the Raid Finder.

I have killed DW in LFR already .. I WANT TO GO KILL HIM AGAIN NEXT WEEK.

Then I have 9 other 85's to take into LFR to kill him with and I might even level a new hunter on a new realm. Might also run arenas on my pally to get that awesome new set.

I have so much to do I doubt I will get it all done before MoP beta hits.

I also got into the D3 beta so I have that to keep me busy as well.

Sigh so much to do and not enough time to do it in.

Imagine if you used all this time to do meaningful content.

Oh right it's not actually about time at all. /rolleyes
Oh look a positive thread, I LOVE IT!

I agree that LFR is amazing.

I'll never be able to go back to serious raiding again due to real life priorities and work and what not.

IMO, I think the LFR tool is the BEST thing Blizzard has done for this game in SUCH a long time.

Im not sure you realize the influx of activity that you will be getting because of the release of the LFR tool, but things are going to get huge.

2mil lost subscribers are nothing compared to what I predict the LFR tool will bring back to the game. The skies the limit!

Imagine if you used all this time to do meaningful content.

Oh right it's not actually about time at all. /rolleyes

Meaningful content does not mean the same thing to everyone. Get over yourself. :)
I am so pleased with the new LFR tool. I can hardly overstate how welcome it is, and how much I have enjoyed it. I too only do raids to see content, and I like getting upgrades, but honestly it is usually just so that I can see more content or because I'm tired of how I look, not because I like bigger numbers.

Transomg lets me change how I look, and the raid finder lets me see the content, even if it easy. I don't care.

I'd like to tell a story. When I first qued for the second half of the deathwing raid, we downed the first boss, but some unhappy players kicked me because I was doing low dps. (Nevermind that I couldn't get behind the boss to proper damage.) The next raid I got into, I was near the top the whole time, and we cleared everything. It was not easy. We wiped many times, but most of us were really enjoying the challenge and each pull we got better as we learned each encounter. And we all could actually use the gear. It was great fun.

Bravo Blizz, BRAVO!
12/07/2011 06:32 PMPosted by Doomthulsa
The only thing us hardcore raiders have now is the sense of achievement of downing the harder content.

Wasn't that the thing that motivated you hardcores in the past? Downing the content, not just getting the epics?

Right. They kill harder bosses - but get better ilvl loot and cool mounts and !@#$. That's more than fair.
I am not the best player of this game... but nor am I the worst. I am medium. I dabble in all areas... I master none. I've raided, I've pvp'ed, I've collected, I've achievement-!@#$%d. Many have done these things better than I, but still... I've at least done decent at all of them.

That said... today I have finally killed an expansion's final boss within the life of that expansion. Within his first week of life no less. Something I, an average player... never did in the previous expansions.

He may have been a sissied up version of himself... but I do not care! I am thrilled and more than pleased with the LFR tool. Leave the harder versions and the fancier loot to the people who care for such things. This is all I need.

As someone who played Warcraft 1, Warcraft 2 and Warcraft 3... but never any MMOs before this. This is all I've ever wanted.

This game has never been about the loot or the prestige for me. I've always just wanted to SEE the content. I want to SEE the characters. The cutscenes. The story. I want to meet them, talk to them, kill them. Whatever. Just wanted to do it. Loot was always just a means to that end for me. I wanted to see how the world of warcraft unfolded... in its entirity. FIRST hand. Without watching videos second hand on youtube, or reading about things on WoWWiki...

That said... LFR takes everything I've ever hated about raiding and makes it go poof. No more guild politics and BS. No more people yelling in vent. No practicing and grinding for months and months only to wipe and wipe and never even get to see that final boss. No more obligations. No more schedules. No more cares! I AM FREE! From here on out, I can kill EVERYTHING and owe NOTHING TO ANYONE! HOORAY!

I can finish a raid on my own time. On my own terms. I am warm and fuzzy inside.

My only complaint is that it wasn't backward compatible to the old Cataclysm raids... which I still have yet to see. A slight dissapointment... but oh well. Guess I'll have to see these later... once I've outleveled the content, just as I did so many others in the past.

But I can't tell you how excited I am that every tier of raiding moving forward into Mists of Pandaria will have this feature. I'll once again be excited for each and every patch day!

You'll note from my achievements... I didn't do one damn ounce of raiding in Cataclysm this past year... like many... I was growing tired of this game. And trying to do and see new things became more of a chore than a fun time... so my interest simply faded.

But today Blizzard, as I smote Deathwing with only minor headaches and a reasonable amount of wipes... I found myself having fun again. Well done!

There are kinks to smooth out to be sure... but I am very pleased with the LFR tool... and I will never go back to normal raiding again. The hardcore raiders have their hardcore raids... and I the average person, now have mine...

Hip Hip Hooray

Honestly I can't stomach to see this post and it makes me sick to see that World of Warcarft is turning into some junkfood game. Players should not kill Deathwing this fast, but instead it should be done by only a few players and guilds that have earned the spot to kill Deathwing. This is very insulting from a lore perspective, in which that everyone in Azeroth gets to kill Deathwing. This isn't Diablo where every player "gets to see Deathwing" in MMORPGs a everyone shouldn't automatically be main hero, but instead they are a dime a dozen and the way from them to "see" the content is to earn their way to the most important places in the game.

I am not saying that only a minority of players should raid, but I think raiding should not be for everyone. Raiding is all about teamwork and commitment where 25 players all work as a single unit and go through the most challenging content in the game. Raiding should also be about community and working with other players. I am not so found of this raid finder for the same reason why I am not found of the LFG tool, it takes the concept of community and teamwork out of the game. It makes me so upset that Blizzard is trivializes gameplay value, and the concept of teamwork and community just for this horrible idea of no player left behind. This whole concept of no player left behind has no place in MMORPGs, it is an insult to the lore and gameplay concepts of WoW.

I for one am not a satisfied subscriber. It's hard for me to stomach to see players down Deathwing who really didn't earn the spot to be raiders in the first place. It's also hard for me to stomach that players no longer take heroics, or any gameplay mechanic of WoW seriously anymore. I am truly concerned about the direction World of Warcraft is going.

This is pretty much the way i feel as well. I understand why LFR is in the game, and i can see the side of players who would be using it the most. However i put so much of my IRL time into this game and some casual who dosent care can go in there and clear it in 40mins. kinda makes me goo hmmmm... they claim its because they "just want to see the content." but in the back of their minds we all its really about getting gear that they would otherwise never get.

First of all, nice to see a post that isn't some whiny faction of Alliance going on about 'injustice', 'quality', and 'OMGWTFBBQ that guy just stole mah flag in ab RAGEQUIT'...

I digress, injustice is playing av every. Second. Queue...

My bad. Anyway, great post, I wholeheartedly agree, I spent months trying to get into ICC raids, I got 4k gearscore after tons of work, then the requirement had become 4.6k or something, whatever... Anyway, it turned me off to raiding, though I always wanted to, purely for the bosses and content. Ok, and the phat lewts...

I haven't checked out raid finder yet, but I always liked the sound of it for your reasons exactly. I don't have the time or wherewithal to be in a proper raid team, but this sounds great, the perfect soluton for many of us. Props for a sensible post =D
Delicious hardcore tears.
Imagine if you used all this time to do meaningful content.

Oh right it's not actually about time at all. /rolleyes
What is meaningful to you?

this OP may have turned my pilot light back on. this toon is my main, and if you check, you can see i didnt even bother with even the normal dungeons.

12/07/2011 06:34 PMPosted by Cylise
but in the back of their minds we all its really about getting gear that they would otherwise never get.
They will never get 397 T-13.

What's your point?

This is pretty much the way i feel as well. I understand why LFR is in the game, and i can see the side of players who would be using it the most. However i put so much of my IRL time into this game and some casual who dosent care can go in there and clear it in 40mins. kinda makes me goo hmmmm... they claim its because they "just want to see the content." but in the back of their minds we all its really about getting gear that they would otherwise never get.

No kidding they want gear along with seeing the content. So do you. You're not going to run hard content "just for the challenge!" anymore than others will run something "just to see it". Both those arguments are largely untrue, and the reality is much closer to the middle.

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