[Guide] Combat PvE 4.3

Rogue
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As for the boots, even though +35 agility is a solid Dps increase, Ive seen some combat rogues take assassins step for the movement speed bonus due to the lack of being able to talent into Quickening. Not going to say one is better than the other, but either seems like a good choice.
From my own gear, the difference between step and major agility is about 48 DPS on a 6min fight that's 17280 damage overall. But if on any target swap or movement I am delayed by even 1 second I could lose as much as 40000 damage (my theoretical DPS), or more. That's just 1 second delayed, once in a fight. If 8% movement speed cuts out 1 second of lost up-time, once in a fight, it's already more valuable than that extra 10agi. Most fights with movement have more than just the one movement phase.

Better mobility translates to more DPS. It's just very hard to quantify it. But a movement speed enchant is always the recommended enchant for any spec that doesn't have a natural speed boost. It gets you into the good stuff, out of the bad stuff, and on your target just that much faster. And those are all extremely valuable things.




12/11/2011 06:42 PMPosted by Backstabi
I start off my encounters stealthed because ambush or cheapshot gives me two CPs right from the start to use on SnD. I know cheapshot is no dps but sometimes I'll use it on a caster who is the primary target and it gives the tank and heals a slight break in damage at the beginning of a mob fight. Also, it's not really a dps loss because I haven't began to dps yet:)

Wrong, wrong wrong soooooo wrong.
1) You delay Bandits Guile
2) Energy cost of Cheap Shot / Ambush pushes Bandits Guile back even more
3) Why the hell would you stun in PvE? That delays your DPS, so !@#$ dies slower.
4) Trying to get to your targets back and use ambush delays your DPS even more, as you had to take your time, rather than opening up with SS and just starting your rotation.

5) It delays Bandits Guile. ktb.


Well, first of all I think their are a variety of effective ways to play a class.

I think we have to clarify what type of encounters we're engaged with when considering rotations. I for the most part was focused on mob encounters with my post. Bandits Guile is not a consideration for me in mob encounters because rarely do I get 30% before my target is dead or close to dieing. Also, damage from BF on nearby targets doesn't tag them with BG either - even less reason to consider BG with mobs.

As for using Ambush or Cheapshot, I made it pretty clear why I use it - 2 instant CPs at the start of the fight. My SnD duration is longer than those who spent only 1 CP on it and I did it in the same amount of time.



12/11/2011 04:06 PMPosted by Darkulous
I also use RS near the beginning of my rotations because I don't want to worry about squeezing it in before an enemy dies on me

Again, wrong. By not using RvS at the end of your CP's, you waste a potential SS glyph proc. Also, if something is that close to dying, just faceroll your keyboard. Doesn't matter, it's about to die, so just go ape%^-* spammy.

[/quote]

I think it's important to squeeze off an Evicerate before your target dies in order to maximize damage to the nearby targets with BF active. That's why I like throwing in RS early.
Rather than making a mess of your rotation and opening with sub-par abilities why not learn to Redirect? If you're playing correctly it's really not that difficult to not only hit but utilize Deep Insight on trash. 30% increased damage for 15sec is much more substantial a gain than an extra Eviscerate on a botched rotation.
12/11/2011 08:34 PMPosted by Caera
Rather than making a mess of your rotation and opening with sub-par abilities why not learn to Redirect? If you're playing correctly it's really not that difficult to not only hit but utilize Deep Insight on trash. 30% increased damage for 15sec is much more substantial a gain than an extra Eviscerate on a botched rotation.


Confession time:

Ah yes, Redirect, my weakness. I'll admit, I haven't found an efficient way to use it. I use an autoattack target macro on my SS to make target swapping easier and instant. That doesn't leave any room for redirect though. What are people doing here? Hotkey Autotarget, Hotkey Redirect and than commence SS attacks? Seems like a second or two of standing there.

What's the process of your target swap with redirect?

Also, this would convince me not to burn a finisher on a dieing target but it won't change my mind on openers :P

I tend to hotkey it during target swaps but I think people have a macro set it where when they target swap if its up they will use it along with a start attack macro.
12/11/2011 09:05 PMPosted by Kiwe
I tend to hotkey it during target swaps but I think people have a macro set it where when they target swap if its up they will use it along with a start attack macro.


Hmmm, i was under the impression that you can't use redirect in a macro.
In the form of a cast sequence I think it is possible but I tend not do try because, as I said, I just hotkey my redirect on target switches.

Edit: yes, you can make a cast sequence with it as I did it on a dummy to see if it could work.
Updating with extra resources and usage of Redirect.

3) Why the hell would you stun in PvE? That delays your DPS, so !@#$ dies slower.


SOMETIMES, if the tank is a bit squishy or if the heals is having trouble keeping up on heals, I'll throw a disarm up, or KS to help tone down the damage.

I'd rather lose a little dps then have a wipe.

Plus the few times that I've helped out that way, I've been met with a world of thanks from the tank.

/flex
Aye, I was speaking in more generic terms, there's no real reason to use a stun. The number of times there is an event like Rag where the sons can be stunned (and should be) are few and far between. But a tank and/or healer shouldn't have to need a DPS to stun a target, just to stay alive and/or heal the tank in most scenarios.

And I suppose my no to stunning comes from my background as a warrior tank. I used to yell at some DPS "Wanna know why you took aggro? You stunned so I had no rage, dip!@#$!"
Regardless, thanks for this guide, I prefer these types of no nonsense guides that don't tell me about the whole story.

Tell me how to reforge, my rotation, and my glyphs.

I don't care about all the stuff in the background.

That's why I steer clear of EJ, it's all greek to me.
Thanks, that was really my only goal was make something that says the same thing as the Elitist Jerks guide, without writing out exactly why something is the way it is. I guess the downside is you get people who actually want to know all this info, but then I'll just direct them to the EJ link.

That, and the number of questions being asked about combat that are absolutely stupid are driving me insane.
In the form of a cast sequence I think it is possible but I tend not do try because, as I said, I just hotkey my redirect on target switches.

Edit: yes, you can make a cast sequence with it as I did it on a dummy to see if it could work.


Realllllly, I tried incorporating REdirect into my SS/start attack macro two patches ago and it didn't work. Maybe something changed. I'll play with it again next time I log.
I just have it kotkeyed to Shift - SnD key. I don't like cast sequence macros, because if it fails for any reason, the macro will stay on that spell until it casts.
12/12/2011 04:25 PMPosted by Backstabi
I just have it kotkeyed to Shift - SnD key. I don't like cast sequence macros, because if it fails for any reason, the macro will stay on that spell until it casts.


/castsequence reset=5 redirect, sinister strike

Shoddy at best but after 5 seconds of not using the Sinister Strike in such of a macro like this it will reset back to redirect.
Still, I wouldn't use that. In the time required for Killing Spree, RvS, Evisc, it would change to redirect. Just use a modifier macro for SS/ if you want to do that. While I don't personally do this (My Shift-SnD key actually moves to a different action bar), I believe this is how it works:

/cast [nomod] Sinister Strike, [mod:shift/ctrl/alt] Redirect

Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Bumping because hasn't been stickied, and we don't have a combat sticky.
burped.
12/13/2011 03:56 PMPosted by Jinthiel
Bumping because hasn't been stickied, and we don't have a combat sticky.
Every time someone says this, I cry a little. Just want you to know.

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