Fix Loot Ninja-ing and PVP/PVE Gearing

General Discussion
Issue 1: Loot Ninjaing still allowed

Running the final HoT 5-mans trying to gear this toon up to ilvl 372 to run DS. The BoE int cloak drops, I need it, the ele shaman needs it, I inspect him, he already has it. Of course he's an enchanter. He wins the cloak. DEs it.

At the final boss, the staff drops, I need it, he needs it (he's well over 378 geared), he wins it. Insta-leaves the party. Obviously he's going to DE it.

Honestly, can this not be fixed? How can you roll need on an item that you have equipped? Why don't need rolled items become non-disenchantable? It's just frustrating when it happens, and ruins the gameplay.

Issue 2: It's easier to gear for PVE by PVPing than by PVEing

Currently the best JP gear I can get is 378, and I cannot purchase a helm or shoulders above 346 ilvl. But if I PVP, I can buy 390 ilvl gear including helm and shoulders.

What's the quickest way to 372 ilvl to do DS? PVP! Why is this?
Issue 1: Loot Ninjaing still allowed

Running the final HoT 5-mans trying to gear this toon up to ilvl 372 to run DS. The BoE int cloak drops, I need it, the ele shaman needs it, I inspect him, he already has it. Of course he's an enchanter. He wins the cloak. DEs it.

At the final boss, the staff drops, I need it, he needs it (he's well over 378 geared), he wins it. Insta-leaves the party. Obviously he's going to DE it.

Honestly, can this not be fixed? How can you roll need on an item that you have equipped? Why don't need rolled items become non-disenchantable? It's just frustrating when it happens, and ruins the gameplay.


Not ninja looting. He put in as much effort to down the boss as you did, and he got a shot at the roll. You lost the roll, so quit QQing, run it again, and roll on it if it drops. The ele shaman did nothing wrong.

As for your other issue, turn JP into honor, buy helm and shoulder, and quit QQing.
Not ninja looting. He put in as much effort to down the boss as you did, and he got a shot at the roll. You lost the roll, so quit QQing, run it again, and roll on it if it drops. The ele shaman did nothing wrong.

As for your other issue, turn JP into honor, buy helm and shoulder, and quit QQing.


Rolling need to bypass the DE/Greed roll is ninjaing. If he wants to DE it, he should be forced to roll greed/DE. Especially when he already has that very same item already equipped.

Rolling on items that his class doesn't even use to DE them is again attempting to bypass the Greed/DE roll.

This should be fixed.
Agree with OP. Getting tired of seeing druid and shaman healers rolling need on dps gear that I need.
Not ninja looting. He put in as much effort to down the boss as you did, and he got a shot at the roll. You lost the roll, so quit QQing, run it again, and roll on it if it drops. The ele shaman did nothing wrong.


Using your twisted logic then every member of the group should be able to roll "Need" on every roll. The Shaman who rolled need on an item that he already had so that he could DE it pretty much is the definition of "Ninja" and I'm betting you'd be here QQing quite loudly if it had been Gurubashi Punisher that the Shammy rolled need to DE when you were working to get yours!
The dungeons aren't going anywhere, I would think they would have to create a whole new system to fix this, which I doubt they have the time to do. Also they are pixels, frustrating, but deal with it.
Also for the pvp gear, I honestly don't understand why they have ilvl, do they preset stats on gear from ilvl or something just to make it quick?
12/10/2011 01:42 PMPosted by Treii
Not ninja looting. He put in as much effort to down the boss as you did, and he got a shot at the roll. You lost the roll, so quit QQing, run it again, and roll on it if it drops. The ele shaman did nothing wrong.


Using your twisted logic then every member of the group should be able to roll "Need" on every roll. The Shaman who rolled need on an item that he already had so that he could DE it pretty much is the definition of "Ninja" and I'm betting you'd be here QQing quite loudly if it had been Gurubashi Punisher that the Shammy rolled need to DE when you were working to get yours!


Thanks for this response. I think there's a lot of newer players who don't remember a time back before LFG when if you did something like this, you'd be run off the server.
12/10/2011 01:47 PMPosted by Sakera
Also for the pvp gear, I honestly don't understand why they have ilvl, do they preset stats on gear from ilvl or something just to make it quick?


Ilvl determines the total stats on the piece of gear (not the allocation though). The reason I'm pointing out the PVP > PVE gearing for PVE is that it's just bad game design.

The whole reason Blizz increased the ilvl of DS from 365 to 372 was because they didn't want a bunch of PVP geared toons dragging down a large group. But they've set up a system that makes it faster and easier to gear for PVE by getting PVP gear (the ilvl is so much higher, and shoulders/helm is actually available).

Again, bad game design that should be avoided in the future. Or at least make the 378 shoulders/helm purchasable to offset this.
Sadly, this is not a case of 'Ninja Loot', and is not broken. The player earned the loot, and had the right to roll on said item, even if they had it, or had better gear already. Yes, it was a not a nice thing to do, but that is the way of it in the LFD system. Everyone who was at the boss kill has a right to roll on the item.
It may not be ninja looting but it sure is rude only caring about themselves. Personally I would follow my advice below

I agree , what a jerk that shamman was/is put his butt on ignore, also write a ticket to gm they may give it to you , never hurts to try
12/10/2011 01:53 PMPosted by Carrionbirth
Run with a guild or people from your server. Stop making Blizzard do more work and fix the problem yourself. They have other fish to fry.


One thing I just don't understand is why players buy this whole "lowered expectations" argument Blizz puts out. Look, they're in the process of fixing LFG looting and have been since it came out in patch 3.2. They've updated it again for LFR.

Telling people to basically "!@#$" about this issue is just blatant trolling.
12/10/2011 01:49 PMPosted by Ellissia
It's impossible to ninja loot in WoW.


No there is a way.

Its called make a raid. Set up loot rules MS/OS and when something dies you take it all. That is ninja looting in WoW. In order to prove it to customer support you need to take a screenshot of the raid leader defining the group's loot rules.

In LFD there is technically no such thing as ninja looting according to Blizzard's loot rules. That however doesn't make it right that people should be exploiting the loopholes within the system. The problem is there is no accountability so people can do whatever the hell they want and designing a system that can figure that the piece you want is an upgrade can be rather difficult unfortunately. Its not impossible but Blizzard definitely likes to make a point that its not worth their time and they have higher priorities.
12/10/2011 02:00 PMPosted by Kabloosh
Its called make a raid. Set up loot rules MS/OS and when something dies you take it all. That is ninja looting in WoW. In order to prove it to customer support you need to take a screenshot of the raid leader defining the group's loot rules.


It's not ninja looting, it's a loot scam

http://us.blizzard.com/support/article.xml?locale=en_US&articleId=17761
12/10/2011 01:58 PMPosted by Kozzae
Sadly, this is not a case of 'Ninja Loot', and is not broken. The player earned the loot, and had the right to roll on said item, even if they had it, or had better gear already. Yes, it was a not a nice thing to do, but that is the way of it in the LFD system. Everyone who was at the boss kill has a right to roll on the item.



BTW I disagree with this post to a degree , though it may not be ninja looting I would let a game master decide ,write a ticket ---- part of the reason people are leaving in droves is because customer service (for the most part) has gone down hill, with the exception of zarhym is right on in my book/
12/10/2011 01:58 PMPosted by Kozzae
Sadly, this is not a case of 'Ninja Loot', and is not broken. The player earned the loot, and had the right to roll on said item, even if they had it, or had better gear already. Yes, it was a not a nice thing to do, but that is the way of it in the LFD system. Everyone who was at the boss kill has a right to roll on the item.


This argument is a small minded failure of imagination. By this logic everyone in the group should be able to roll need on everything, and that isn't the case.

It's also the same tired argument that has been trotted out since LFD went live in 3.2. If this argument had won the day, the LFD and LFR system would be absolutely horrible (the only thing that prevented rampant ninja'ing back then was that the community standards were higher because if you did this on a server group, you'd be run off the server and that ethic took a while to fade).

Instead, Blizz has continued to tweak the loot system with the understanding that need = "I'm going to equip this item".

This idea that "it's the way it is, therefore we can do no better" should DIAF, and frankly as an MVP I'm a little disappointed that this is how you decided to spend your posting time.
Just so you know OP my main is an enchanter and i only do what the ele shammy did in your story if the group im in is full of *#!@s or people im carrying due to their sub par performance.

If everyones playing along and doing their own share i hit disenchant with everyone else....piss me off and ill be needing on anything i can and sharding it later if i feel like it.

Got into a pug last night the pally tank refused to buff anyone...i asked in /p and even whispered him asking please could you throw some buffs around to the 4 other people in the group..no response either time.

When the tanking mace dropped from Well of Eternity and he rolled need on it with his 333 blue weapon I did too. I had every right to otherwise the NEED button wouldnt have been available to me but if he wasnt a dumbass I would have passed and let him have it.
At the final boss, the staff drops, I need it, he needs it (he's well over 378 geared), he wins it. Insta-leaves the party. Obviously he's going to DE it.


I'm actually willing to bet he sold it, since it's worth more than the enchanting mats you'd get from it.

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