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Hello i'm a resto shaman. I was in the LFR party with one other Shaman that was Enhance.When we down the boss and the loot windows pop up their was these boots with spirit on this int ect. They was for sure made for Resto class and so i put a "Need Roll" on it. The other Shaman did the same "Need Roll" and got them. How in the Hell could a Enhance Shaman win them boots over "Main spec Resto"? That is what i would call a Ninja. I got to looking at the players in the raid party and they was all from the same guild but for about 10 of us.I ask the player in whisper to let me have them and that my main spec is resto and all i got from him was some nasty choice words.

I think the loot system for the LFR needs some fixing still. Make it Main spec rolls are what you enter the raid with +1 over Off spec Need rolls. No way should enhance Shaman should win Spirit boots over Main spec Resto Shaman!

It doesn't look at spec (or the persons current stats as far as hybrid dps go), it goes by role and class. Since the other person was a shaman also, he can roll by default- since the ele shaman spec does actually use spirit. If the system ALSO took current stats into account, they wouldn't be able to do this (though I'm starting to think they should also divide dps types by melee and caster- thus dumbing things down one more step).

I think if they dumbed it down just one more step, we wouldn't see half as many "guildy buddy" systems as we do now. And also made things Unique- whether it be on their person or in the bank.
I have a concern:

I have found out that after winning an item, if it were to drop again, I can still "NEED" on it. That shouldn't really be allowed, should it? I have also won on that roll and not been able to pick the item up from the boss if its a tier drop.

My concern in this is for the other people who roll need on said item and lose. If it wasn't for my good play ethics I could walk away with an item I already have and not allowing other classes to have it....even if I never picked it up and just left raid. That is a def. fix.

You shouldn't be allowed to need on the same item you have already won unless you can dual use it.
First off, I love LFR, I think it's great. My guild is running 25m normals and now, when we reach a "new" boss, everyone has at least an idea of how the fight will go. It helps people who wouldn't have ever even bothered with the content get in there and help kill Deathwing. That said, the only real drawback to LFR right now is the loot system. As I'm sure you're aware, it's really, really, broken. Every single run I'm in it seems like the one or two people who shouldn't have gotten certain items are winning. For example, Priest who already has T13-RF chest equipped rolls and wins another, Hunter rolls on 1H AND 2H sword off Deathwing and wins both, Enhancement Shaman wins healing shield, Druid wins both staves that dropped, etc.

Sure, most cases it's actually for an off-spec, which I have no problem letting people roll on. But the fact that they get the roll bonus, despite not being in a spec, blows my mind every time. And whenever anyone ever says anything to the person I'm amazed at how reluctant (and flat-out rude) people are to give up their loot. You only get one drop per week with these bosses, so when the thing you've been waiting for drops and someone grabs it from your hands, it's awful. And there's no guarantee it won't happen the next week either, which is just disheartening.

I don't believe for a second that the current system can't figure out a player's spec. Tons of add ons manage to figure it out, and it's no question that Blizzard has logs of everything a player has done in his/her time in-game. That's like if Facebook started telling people "Oh, no, we totally don't know anything about you..."
Why not apply them to 5 mans? I've seen rogues take strength trinkets and rings! Its sad when addicts don't even know to what they are addicted. I'm an agility junky. Strength just doesn't give me the same high.

Hi five, sir!

Yes, absolutely allow people to roll need on items they can use for an offspec. However, implement a "Need Minus Roll" which would allow rolls for those who need the item but do not have the item equipped OR in their inventory or bank the priority! Tier pieces should be treated the same. I have the feral T13 shoulders, I should not beat another player for a shoulder token who doesn't have one just because I want a second set for tanking.

Make greeding an option for those who truly would just sell it for gold. Obviously, a druid will never need a plate helmet.

PS I would like to trademark the "Need Minus Roll"
What do people think about restricting need rolls to the spec in which they entered combat in?

For example, if a shaman entered combat as elemental or healing, he could not roll need for an agility ring for his enhancement set. He would have to roll greed.

I realize that people sometimes argue over an item that has stats that "could" be healing or dps or better for one class than another. I don't see how to solve those problems, BUT a Resto druid sure isn't going to use an AGI ring to heal and that issue would be solved by this proposal.

What do y'all think?
@Teren...ZOMG Man! What are you thinking???

YOU should be able to roll NEED on everything. Everyone else should get the back of the bus treatement...

I kid, I kid....

Well the reason that shamans and paladins cant roll on the off hand is because actual casters that SHOULD get them CANNOT role on shields and therefore paladins and shammies should not be allowed to roll on offhands because it would then severely limit the possibility of these classes of actually getting the item.
Well done, and quite quickly might I add! I'm glad that this has been done, honestly. Now if only we could get a way to prevent someone from winning two items at once!

Could this mean that you're looking for ways to ensure no one can win two items at once!? *starts to make a happy face*

This is something we know happens, and we definitely want to find a way to address it so it doesn't happen.

Yea, I saw this not too long ago. Someone won both of the Vanquisher helms or something like that. Didn't even hand one over to the next highest roller. Just got a primary set one and an off set one. I hate it when that happens.
So are there any plans to implement a fix so I stop losing the 2H sword on my pally to pally/warrior tanks. They're queued as tank. They're in full tanking gear. Why are they getting a 2H sword? It's happened -every- time I've killed Deathwing on my pally.
12/14/2011 11:18 AMPosted by Zadck
I had a paladin tank roll on my two hand sword off dw and win it. WTF bliz. Last week a blood dk won it.

The issue here is that sword is likely tagged for both tanks and DPS, as while paladins and warriors use 1 handed weapons+shield, DKs use......FREEKING 2 HANDED WEAPONS

TANKS AND HEALS SHOULDENT GET TO ROLL ON DPS ITEMS wtf are you guys doing. Hurry up and fix it, I have lost the sword now two weeks in a row to tanks, and healers rolled on it too and got +100.

I'd feel for you, if DPS did not do the same to tanks and healers, now you might say "but I don't do that", well, guess what? NO ONE CARES IF YOU DO OR NOT, too many have already done the damage and left the rest to pay the price.

Fail system is fail. Frost shouldent even get to roll on it either. Should be ret paladins and fury and arms warriors and unholy dks. But certainly not tanks.

Selfish idiot is selfish, while I can agree that shield tanks should not get that, it can be a fair upgrade for DK tanks and as far as the spec restriction? let me see:
Ret paladins: Big 2 hander
Fury warriors: 2 1-hander or 2 2-handers
Arms warriors: 1 2-hander
Frost DKs: 2 1-handers or 1 2hander
Unholy DKs: 2 1-handers or 1 2-hander

Hmm, you want to tell a frost DK that prefers a 2 hander that he can't get an upgrade? If so, I hope before they fix it, they make warriors UNABLE TO ROLL ON IT AT ALL.

12/14/2011 01:23 PMPosted by Teren
Why not apply them to 5 mans? I've seen rogues take strength trinkets and rings! Its sad when addicts don't even know to what they are addicted. I'm an agility junky. Strength just doesn't give me the same high.

It iis worse when it is secondary stats being argued over. I have toons across all primary stats so I felt the sting here. I don't ever roll need unless it is an upgrade and the toon uses the primary stat (str/agil/int) and then I look to see if one would get more out of the secondary stats (exp and hit/spirit are the commonly fought over) rolls need. If the answer to #1 (upgrade for primary stats) is yes and #2 (secondary stats more benificial for someone else) is no then I roll need, if either of those is the other answer, then I roll greed/DE.
the big thing that in lfd you can get more then 1 run of the same place in a day to get the one thing you need so you can grind it out lfr on the other hand it one time a week no mater how much you what to get a full set for gear from it
My question is about loot balance.

There is a bow that only Hunter's can loot, but Rogues could wield it too as their ranged slot.

There is a one handed axe that only Rogues and Shaman are allowed to loot, I thought Hunters could wield axes too.

There are several daggers that are not marked for either Hunter or Druid.

Also, restricting Int based trinkets and rings that have spirit on it from warlock and Mages. I know that Spirit has a small effect on these toons, but if the item has a large Int jump for them I would equip them until a suitable replacement could be found.

I know that the current changes are new and may still be looked at with more scrutiny in the near future. these are just the things that I see and felt I should point them out.

As others have said, that's all gear that's suboptimal.

Hunters don't want axes and Rogues don't want bows.

Agility daggers are pretty much only used by Rogues. Ferals prefer two handers and daggers are too fast for Enhance.

The whole spirit debate has been going on since the beginning of Cataclysm, but the point is that Spirit has zero benefit for Mages and Warlocks and they shouldn't wear it, especially when taking it means that they're screwing over a Priest, Druid, or Shaman caster.

Except you're wrong on both counts.

First - the idea that putting Spirit on an item somehow makes it something that Mages and Warlocks 'shouldn't use'. Roll a Mage if you don't already have one, and go look at the JP and VP trader selection - Mages can buy gear with Spirit on it if they want - and they very well might want to (for example, two unique rings, one with Spirit and one without). Sure - the Spirit is basically dead, and the fact that it's on the item probably means the item loses something else - but if you were stacking Intellect and maxing out other statistics, it might be totally worth it.

Second - No one 'screwed over' a Priest, Druid or Shaman caster. You not getting something on a roll doesn't take anything away from you, whether it's because you rolled low, or lost to someone else for some other reason.

I can understand why you might wish you'd got the item, but this appeal-to-emotion talk about people being screwed over, when loot distribution is decided by random number generation anyway? It's ridiculous.

Indeed - in the whole arrangement, the only thing that comes close to people being 'screwed over', is when someone gets an item, gems and enchants it, equips it etc.... and then the item is retroactively denied. That person actually lost something. You're complaining because you just didn't win.
derping it up
Ok, I know this is a work in progress, but here is my story of frustration:

Week 2 of raid finder, I was excited to get used to the fights and maybe get some loot. I take some guildmates and run LFR, we get to the end, kill Deathwing, and Souldrinker drops!

I'm super excited, as this is the best weapon for me as a frost dw DK. What happens though, is the tanks are the only ones that get the role bonus.

Oh well I think, next week I'll tank instead of dps, awkward way to earn my weapon, but if that is the system that blizz implemented, I guess I roll with it.

What happens however is, the weapon drops again, and this time, only the DPS get the role bonus!

The kicker: I rolled the highest natural roll both times, but due to the bonus being applied to other specs, I didn't win.

What is the deal with this Blizz?
probably mentioned

But it should be set to SPEC specific, and the spec YOU RAIDED WITH.

I am tired of carrying other plate classes that are afraid to tank or skip content to build a tanking set, but want to role on tanking loot.

Different subject, can you include Enchants and gems in calculating ITEM Level. Ive raided with a unholly DK with no enchants save his weapon, and all green gems save to gem slots that he had nothing in them. His DPS was horrible as expected. This was a regular 10 man btw, Raid leads fail for not looking closely at his gear.

and i still lose Blade of the Unmaker to a hunter this week? HNNGH
I completely agree that loot should be set to SPEC specific , as a resto shaman I just lost the healing shield to another player running as a ret pally in the group. If your not willing to perform the roll for the raid group then you shouldn't be allowed a need roll for the item. I can't see why this should be something hard to code
This is very good news..... Its bad enough losing the need rolls on something I can use and it is won by another player that can't use it.... but I also have a problem with the fact that if the boss drops NOTHING for me to use (example, all plate/mail/leather gear) and I pass on ALL items! Only, I still have the lock out that I looted that boss and can not loot it again for another week!!! I think if I can't use anything and pass on all items, I should be able to loot the boss again. I don't like the lock out if those bosses doesn't even drop anything for my class. Or make it that the bosses drops at least one item per class to use so they can roll need or greed on it.

Enhance shamans should not get a +100 to Need on shields...

Seeing as they DW, and cant tank, (and if they did they would use a tank shield) it makes no sense.

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