Looking For Raid—Need Plus Updates

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Because then everyone would have their full set within a month and be bored even sooner.

I've done LFR I think three times (twice for the first four bosses, once for the last one), and I'm already bored with it. Not because I don't like the content or anything, but because LFRs are worse than random BG's for trolling and raging and BS in general. Case in point, just tonight, during my first-four LFR, there was a nerd fight during Morchok. Then during the ooze boss, somebody pulled him while we were doing trash and immediately dropped group. I then lost an Agi ring to a Boomkin who spent the majority of the Hagara fight raging against two priests who Life Gripped him into a bad spot and let him die. Then for a Fall of Deathwing LFR just a little bit ago, people who couldn't even roll on the loot that dropped (3 2h swords and a Vishanka) were raging about people other than themselves getting loot and how they're so much better than everybody else. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, knowing John Gabriel's Greater Internet F@#%wad theory.
Another thing that'll help is 1) Make it so you can no longer trade gold in LFR, therefore people will no longer be Needing on items they don't actually need just to sell it to the highest bidder. 2) If you have an item from regular/heroic 10/25m Dragon Soul or something of equal ilvl (ie you've looted Maw of the Dragonlord from regular Dragon Soul or the heroic version of Sulfuras from heroic Ragnaros) then you no longer get the role bonus for the item within LFR.

Combine this with my idea above (losing your role bonus once you've won the item already in LFR) should help to alleviate a LOT of the issues and loot disputes from LFR.
they need to fix the loot problem, i lost Souldrinker from LFR because everyone and their moms rolled need on it and i lost to a holy pally, just at least make it so they can roll need but cant get a role bonus unless they are marked as a tank rolling for tank items and etc etc. cause its getting out of hand

My DW Frost DK would argue with your assertion this is a "tank" weapon. It has STR, Stam and a self-heal/damage proc.....what about that = tank?

A holy Pally shouldn't have won it....that sucks.....but it is not just a "tank" weapon.

Blizz just needs to itemize their gear better.....I proposed an idea on another thread to assign a "ilvl budget" instead of stats on gear that players can reforge/forge into desired stats in the amounts they want (within reason). So many points to spend on primary stat, so many for secondary with procs preprogrammed. This would solve the problem neatly. Pally/Shammy healers could itemize the crappy shield better and wouldn't care about off-hands any more. There wouldn't be any complaints that class X won Class Y's drop because there wouldn't be class X or class Y drops anymore.....just role drops. If a weapon has a healing proc it is s healing drop, if it has an avoidance/mitigation proc it is a tank drop, if it has a damage dealing proc it is for DPS. If it is just a vanilla stat item it is free to all. No one left out, no one favored. All Blizz would have to do is provide a means for the game to identify that item in your inventory (somewhere, bag, bank or paper doll) and disqualify you from winning it again. Not even disqualify really.....just reduce the bonus (say +50 to keep ahead of people DEing it) to make it easier for those without that piece to get a first one than it is for someone else to get a second (or third!) one. I am looking directly at the d-bag TG warrior already wearing one Gurthalak who won two more and gloated nonstop in raid chat before leaving group.

Another simple fix would be to only apply the week loot lockout if you actually win a roll on a boss.....this means more people continue running it who HAVEN'T won something yet. It should be as simple as coding to evaluate that item # 1224xxxxxx drops off of boss #1224 so you can't get anymore items off that boss.....history resets every Tuesday.

It is certainly possible, the only question does this affect enough of the player base to warrant the resources....
understanding that LFR allows more people to see the end-game content, it also should be made as a step toward normals with the gear it drops. However, even with Need Plus and other fixes, it has a lot to be desired for those using it as a step to other raiding... And I am a big example of that. In 3 weeks... 24 boss encounters, I have seen dozens of drops I can roll need on, but I have been successful only once. As this gear is much better than the HoT gear and valor gear can only be purchased once every 1-2 weeks (because of the limit you can get), I have decided to not have my mage as my main. Every week I see the same items drop and every week the chance to get it is the same... roughly 1:10 since everybody seems to get the role bonus. What i suggest is that with every passing week, if you don't get anything, you get an additional +5 or +10 bonus to items until you do get something. At this rate, my mage MAY have 2-3 more pieces before MoP. On the other hand, I have seen some people (especially healers and tanks) getting 4-7 pieces a week. It feels like vanilla all over again, but worse since the speed of gearing up seems to be quicker and easier for many. Why I am having such bad luck is beyond me, but I know that a few LFR pieces would increase my dps significantly. I have farmed the hell out of everything else on this character. Maybe once Blizzard fixes that healer going in as DPS to get double the loot will fix my issue of not getting anything.
Good to hear this was done

But also sad that this had to be done because people are too greedy and....other worse words to use common sense.

..."but i want to transmog".....lol

Nobody cares what your toon looks like
i have read this thread and yes i have had some of the same problems ie a mage wearing the t13 lfr chest won the token again only looking to trade it. Now i think its bs as well and i had even put a ticket in on it. but like they have said in the first post they are trying to find ways to fix it. it cannot be an easy fix or blizz would have already done something to fix it. but i do say blizz please hurry and fix this its very annoying i have ran through the lfr myself for several weeks and not won a single thing includeing when certian people roll on the tier tokens that dont need them
I'd like to see "Need" done away with altogether, in all raids and dungeons and instances. It should be only "Roll" or "Pass" imo.

Let the mechanics of the game decide if the item is better for one character or another in cases where there would be an actual benefit, and let's have a completely random roll in cases where the "need" is for gold or mats. I have never rolled "Need" for anything, but I can certainly use stuff I don't intend to equip.
you have an alchemy item that can determine which stat to give you for your chosen spec.
you have a food item that can determine which stat to give you based on your current spec.
you have a flask from a cauldron that can determine which stat is best for you for you current spec.
there are multiple trinkets that increase an ability "your highest ability will always be chosen".

but your support and GMs keep saying that the loot system cant figure out that an agility/melee class shouldnt get a roll bonus on an intellect/caster dagger? or that a shield/tank class shouldnt get a roll bonus on a 2 handed melee/dps weapon?


or how about when someone rolls on the item and then leaves the raid because he already has it or doesnt want it just to be a jerk, so the item just sits and rots in the chest.

Fix this crap already and stop saying "its new and were working on it." because its not new, and i doubt youre working on it.
So I realize when I say all of this I am most likely just throwing more wood on to the fire, ignoring if said fire is lit or not.

The LFR loot system needs to change drastically. Now I know its all down to luck if you get something or not, but it really does not help when majority of people are going to roll on something they should not cause they either do not care about pissing people off or they do not know any better, the latter of which is not an excuse by the way. For example today two of the agi axes off of deathwing dropped, one was taken by a rogue with the first stage of their legendary and the other was taken by an ele shaman. I was the only enhancement shaman in the raid and with the legendary for the rogue those axes should be enhancement only.

Ok now that I am done venting on to the constructive part of this post.

Problem 1: This need plus and class restriction does not work.
While this is a simple answer, it is to simple. Once you throw hybrids in to the mix this stops working all together, but lets face it, it stop working once you get people that do not know what is meant for their own class/spec or stop caring.

Problem 2: People rolling on item below what they have.
Now I realize there would be some mass complication in solving this, but reporting people wont cut it, since in the end they are doing nothing really wrong or at least they can be punished for. Now really this is still a problem I know people are not going to be happy in a month or two when more people in heroics show up just to troll people by taking the loot.

Problem 3: Not being able to loot from multiple runs a week.
This in it self is not the problem, just the best way to summarize it, the real problem is raids loot gets handed out with checks and balances in a normal raid. Guild have their own loot systems, people can discuses things, and at the very least in a pug if someone ninja loots something they get branded for doing so. The point here is in a 5 man no one really cares cause you can just go run it again and again till you get what you want/need, so the harder you work the sooner you get rewarded. Now I realize that you most likely wont make it so one can loot LFR more then once a week, even if it is lesser gear, but could you lock people out once they have done the whole thing, or at the very least if we go again get rid of the box that taunts you with what dropped by showing it to us. This will get much worse when someone is down to just needing a single item from the whole raid and every on wants to steal it.

Problem 4: Tier tokens.
To many problems can come out of them being in LFR (such as people rolling on them for os when they have it or better ms) you should go back to letting us buy them (all 5 like tier 9 and 10) and take them out of LFR. Now I am not saying this so it will be easier for me to get, I am saying so players not in raiding guilds can still get them, cause really I would not care less if you remove the ability to get tier gear from LFR and valor if that is what it takes to solve this.

On a side note LFR as a whole is TOO easy.

It is very depressing that something has not yet been done to resolve the issue of players being able to win 2 of the same item off one boss, or off multiple boss's in the same run etc.. This also goes for winning the same item they already have equipped, only because they are going to hold it hostage and offer to trade for something else that drops later that they want. In these case's that second item never gets to someone that could otherwise use it either because, the item they want doesn't drop or they drop group or people do the right thing and tell that person to take a hike and keep their greedy item and let it rot...

This is just something I find is broken and can easily be resolved since. Many other games do not allow you to win 2 of the same items or even roll on an item you currently posses in your inventory. The winning of both items from the same boss can simply be fixed by defaulting the second item to the next highest roller based off inventory/already equipped rules.
Ugh..just had a fellow mage already decked out in full Tier win the shoulders. He then trolled the group offering to sell them and then opened trade with others and then sat there not hitting trade. Then told everyone else to "L2 play your class" and left. I realize that he is not technically breaking the code of conduct but...ugh!

Please restrict rolls if the item is equipped!
I would like to propose a possible solution to this whole LFR loot mess that blizzard created:

#01: Instead of gear being awarded to the highest bidder, instead, all members who contribute to the raid would receive tokens instead. These "tokens" would be awarded after every boss kill, and after successfully completing a lfr run. These tokens would be similar to the Justice Points/Valor Points in the fact that they would be used like Justice/Valor Points and that they could be accumulated over time to be used at a vendor to purchase the appropriate LFR Gear.However, these LFR "Tokens" would only drop once per week per boss, per character, thereby allowing all participants in the raid to accumulate raid "tokens" equally and allowing those individuals that participate in LFR runs to acquire gear equally.

The only stipulation would be, that all tokens are to be considered "NO TRADE" and that the LFR Tokens could only be used for LFR gear. Not valor gear, or justice gear, or heirloom gear, or pvp gear. This would eliminate a lot of ninja looting that goes on during the LFR. This would also eliminate those individuals who need for items they don't need. Now, I know that there would be flaws in this system too, like people queuing to raid and not contributing their part to get "free tokens" so to speak. These people should be policed by the players through vote kicking. If you don't contribute to the raid, or if you afk through the whole raid, then no tokens for you. This system would allow players to obtain tokens at a rate to be set by blizzard per week in order to obtain the LFR Gear necessary to progress in to regular raids.

I think that, even though the system that I proposed is not without its flaws, it would still be a better system than the current looting system in place in LFR where you have players needing on gear and winning two to three set pieces at a time in a single run, while the other players who have been running lfr for weeks get nothing in return to show for their hard work. This would also eliminate those players who need on items when they already have the current item in their inventory, or when they already possess a better item equipped in that slot for the gear that dropped.

Losing the BIS melee axe from deathwing to caster shammies is getting old fast
im wondering if the way people need has been looked into mor thoroughly ie a enhance shaman needing on a trinket with intellect an so obviously for a int caster or heals an still getting role bonus even tho enhance shamans dont use intellect? an other such examples are obvious like needing on items which are below your level item anyway but just need to trade an stuff, please tell me this has been looked into an even better will be fixed as it makes it very hard to lvl ones toon if all the gear is being taking but inconsiderated ******** ya know
I would like to propose a possible solution to this whole LFR loot mess that blizzard created:

#01: Instead of gear being awarded to the highest bidder, instead, all members who contribute to the raid would receive tokens instead. These "tokens" would be awarded after every boss kill, and after successfully completing a lfr run. These tokens would be similar to the Justice Points/Valor Points in the fact that they would be used like Justice/Valor Points...

:) Nice idea. Please go back to Page 21 and see post #403

Thanks for the Raid Finder Token support.
i have 1 question to Nethaera i find the lfr is ok but when i did it i feel like i didn't earn any thing it was 2 easy so i kinda stop playing on my pally seeing i did death wing raid and got Bord its the same thing with the lich king u down him your done dint think i kill death wing in 1 day :(
Ug...Just wasted 1.5 hours (waiting for LFR and then doing it) doing Fall of Deathwing and out of the 4 bosses, 0 items for hunters dropped. Nothing.

Why cant Blizz read this thread and fix this stupid thing?
Ok Blizz...your answer when I open a ticket is to post here since you claim you read the forums...well here you go...

Loot system is jacked up and people abuse LFR loot. Case in point...my shaman? Belt dropped, lost to an Enhancement shaman. Today, belt dropped again..lost it to a resto shammy who already had it on and gemmed, then he left raid. Why does it seem to be so difficult to implement a system where if you have it equipped already, or are not the correct role in the raid, to NOT allow them to roll? Most of the time, your bonus roll system doesn't even work. I've seen it happen on Madness time and time again, to me and others I know personally. Why should an Enh shammy get a BONUS roll on a resto belt? Why should a fully PVP geared priest who starts the Madness fight then stand there AFK the rest of the time, come back in time to roll and win the staff, then claim he will vendor it? This system needs a HUGE overhaul. I don't normally post on forums and I have been playing WoW since Vanilla. Blizz, you claim you want us to enjoy and take advantage of all the content you offer, so please explain why I should keep doing your LFR system when it's basically pointless due to how the looting works?

I do raid on my main in normal DS, but for those of us who do like to gear alts, without commiting to raiding, LFR is awesome, until you realize just how broken this loot system is. I have no issue at all losing to someone who actually needs that item, its an upgrade for them, or they are fullfilling that role in the raid. My issue is stop letting AFK'ers, or others take gear that we all invest our time trying to get. Losing a weapon to an AFK, is just wrong. After today, I will no longer do LFR on any of my toons. You seriously need to look into fixing your LFR looting system. Blizz you told me to post here with this issue, because you "monitor these forums closely," well there ya go. Let's see what you do with it.

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