Nerfs.

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01/23/2012 07:23 PMPosted by Jackjagalos
last I checked this game was growing better when it had more difficulty curves, and it started snowballing down hill ever since they've been trying this spoon feed model.


Actually, it was the change in Wrath, then the abrupt change back in Cata.

They started to attract and gain a different type of player, then told them all to bugger off 2 years later, thinking that the old players would come back. Very very few of them did, and then they started loosing everyone in a landslide for multiple different reasons.

They just had too many development paradigm shifts too fast, and they really can't go back at this point. The Wrath model is going to win out in the long run.
Which goes right back to Blizzard (the horror!) doing what the majority of their playerbase wants. Which, from a business standpoint, is the only intelligent thing to do. They're not out there looking for ways to make a minority viewpoint come to fruition, they're in this to make money.


There's no indication that "the majority of the playerbase" has any inclination of raiding in the first place, so by that logic there shouldn't be any endgame PvE content at all.

01/23/2012 07:13 PMPosted by Cyberweasel
Find me one company, just one for-profit company, that does otherwise, and I'll show you a company that fails in business 101.


Apparently you fail at WoW Raiding 101.

Still waiting for you to find me some guilds that are progressing in hardmode content but won't have the buff on when it goes live.
Yeah like I said, they went back and forth a lot and it hurt each kind of player. Wrath while easier still wasn't nearly as bad as cata is nice, dungeons were easy true, naxx 25, true easy. The rest it had difficulty, you still had to work for your stuff. The dungeon aspect did throw players off though yeah.


Correct. I guess I have an odd perspective with this conversation.... As I was one of the people asking "What were you smoking?" back in Dec/Jan when we were wiping for 2-3 hours in RDF 4.0 groups........ Or spending 6 hours for progression on Magmaw, ugh....

I've done hard core during BC (See my FoSs....) I know what that play style is like. I'm not advocating that only those people should have access to content, I think the LFR is skinking brilliant, however... Those who DO want to have that level of difficulty DESERVE TO HAVE IT, period. They are players in this game just like everyone else.

I also have a real tough problem believing that this tier, at least on normal, doesn't need more that tweaks. Normal mode feels really really good difficulty wise, save Warmaster. While even a 35% nerf will not drop it down to LFR level, it's going to take a lot from it.


The biggest problem I have with this, I think, is that I'd like to move into heroic modes on my terms and with my raid group. This just makes me feel like Blizzard wants me there for some reason. It removes choice in the long run, because if normal becomes just that laughable with the gear in it, and the nerf on top of that... The only way to really have fun is in the heroic modes.
Damn. Nearly 300 pages.
01/23/2012 08:08 PMPosted by Zycorax
Damn. Nearly 300 pages.


The opposing sides are immovable. This should go on forever.

One side doesn't see the hit to competition; the other feels that they are the gatekeepers, defending HDS from the unskilled masses.

The only thing I see resolving the matter from coming up every time is to implement an achievement for not utilizing whatever buff that Blizzard applies. That means implementing a gear tracking system to insure that players are wearing no gear that was obtained while buffed.

I have no idea how much that would cost - especially when it would only be for an incredibly small minority that cares. On the other hand, it could be looked upon as an overall prestige point for the game. Only time will tell.
01/23/2012 08:18 PMPosted by Mossclaw
One side doesn't see the hit to competition; the other feels that they are the gatekeepers, defending HDS from the unskilled masses.


If this is all you've taken from 300 pages on this, I'm not sure what to say......


There are those who, like you said, don't understand the issue with how little time has been given to progress and that this will lessen the competative nature of long term progression raiding for this tier.

On the other side are those of us who are seeing a significant issue with the fact that this is already the best tuned raid of the expac bar none. From the heroic perspective, many of the other posters who have experience with them seem to be of the opinion that only slight adjustments here and there are really needed.


There is also the feeling that by just rolling out a generic nerf, Blizzard is taking the easy way out. It means that (aside from encounter breaking bugs) they don't have to do those tweaks and adjustments that people have called for.


But I mostly agree. A FoS that trigers upon completion of all the heroic modes without the nerf would be the most appropriate.
If this is all you've taken from 300 pages on this, I'm not sure what to say...... <snip>


Good heavens, no. :) You saw my other posts, right? But that is boiling it down to the bare metal, in my mind.
DS normal was already tuned quite easy. Buff was unnecessary. Heroic DS was meant to be challenging and hard and if you are hitting a brick wall then its something you have to work to overcome and not be hand-held through it.

However nothing will be given to increase competition as Blizzard has already made it clear they want to tone the game down further to accomodate their new target player-base. >.>
DS normal was already tuned quite easy. Buff was unnecessary. Heroic DS was meant to be challenging and hard and if you are hitting a brick wall then its something you have to work to overcome and not be hand-held through it.

However nothing will be given to increase competition as Blizzard has already made it clear they want to tone the game down further to accomodate their new target player-base. >.>


I don't think it's that. It's one thing that I can spend my entire life telling you, anbd your answer will just be "transfer servers"...

Raiding is flawed. It's always been flawed, since every MMORPG before the existence of WoW, and so far, for every MMORPG that came after WoW.

Most people make the same mistake when they talk about difficulty... They say "you just have to improve". But the problem with that, is how does me getting better at playing ret help my tank start using his CDs right?

Personally improving only works if you personally are the reason your group is failing. People tend to completely overlook the entire rest of the group when it comes to the difficulty of content.

But it's not just good players in bad guilds, there's players who the only guild they can find that works with their availability is pretty bad, or players who made the doomed decision of playing with family or friends.

These are the kind of people these nerfs are aimed to. The people who aren't openly available 24/7 that can just guarantee they can commit to almost any raid group in existence, the people who have to take care of a family or RL, or who work inconvenient hours... or the people who just wanted to play with some friends.

This really has to stop. A lot of you need to be put in a tough situation for once. Some of you need to have your guild disband tonight and your only choice of available raid spots is a pretty terrible guild.... You need to see what it's like to be held back because of other players, and because the better groups, who only have room for so many people in each raid, are full.

You need to accept that life happens in WoW, and sometimes it takes nerfing content to be able to get the people who should be doing the un-nerfed content a chance to actually do it.

This is to help success not come at the cost of having friends or family. Like I brought up a few pages back... to be successful in this game, you have to be ready to tell your mother, or your daughter, or your girlfriend that you're not playing with them anymore because they're bad. Do you REALLY not think theres a little problem there?

WoW is a raid or die game.... You have a choice, sacrifice everyone else so that you can raid, or choose to have friends and spend literally the entire time you're on your 85 just running around SW and Org because it's not like you're raiding and getting anywhere.....

But yeah, lets not nerf content.... Let's just let great players stay locked out of content because they're not going to be a jerk to their own kid just to get gear with bigger numbers on it. You guys fought and fought to go to the extreme opposite of wrath, well, now deal with the nerfs that come with the raids.

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