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Because then you would have roughly 50 thousand things for the CM's to bring up in the weekly meeting which would lead to poor time management and really long meetings.

This in turn would lead to the Dev's changing the format of the meeting to an all out CM nerf blaster slaughter fest.
And we love our CM's we can't have that.

On a further more serious note if you treat one kid like they are special eventually you have to treat them all that way. A public promise to a player that their thought/idea/gimmick/ect will be brought up in the meeting could spark a massive community out cry for any number of reasons.


Commenting that an idea will be brought up in the meeting wouldn't increase the ideas they bring up in the meeting. Except for if people new idea were actually being taken into account there would be more of them.

Responding to a player saying that something was an interesting idea or that they are going to bring a topic up in a meeting doesn't make someone special. It does make there point or idea special though. As for massive outcry because of a CM mentioning something to the Dev that amuses me because the CM's don't decide what goes into the game.

Really I would just like blue to be more active in the forums.
01/24/2012 10:40 AMPosted by Reveries
Really I would just like blue to be more active in the forums.

That would be a mixed blessing.

I've seen good conversations get overrun by people flocking to a thread becuase they see the blue icon next to it and contribute nothing to the conversation.

Generally, yes. If we see some really good feedback or ideas, we will often take it with us when we meet with the developers (which is generally a weekly face to face meeting.) We don't want to give the wrong impression that feedback given equals a guaranteed change based on that feedback.


I understand why you take the approach that you do, but in my opinion, there is too little activity from the CM. In some cases, I will see multiple, massive threads on a topic with lots of great stuff going on and not a peep from the CM. Other threads, which barely get any attention from the community or are just completely inane topics get feedback from the CM. It really confuses me.

For example, the mage talents have been discussed at length. Based on some of the changes to the mage talents, we are guessing the feedback was used but it is very hard to tell. Did we just make a lucky guess? Did we actually have a good idea? It is hard to say because some of the stuff we hated and didn't see as useful are still there.

The community knows their classes a million times better than the developers ever will and the community can be a great asset, and a royal PITA, but it makes it hard for us to help if we don't know what is going on.
01/24/2012 10:58 AMPosted by Lucrea
understand why you take the approach that you do, but in my opinion, there is too little activity from the CM. In some cases, I will see multiple, massive threads on a topic with lots of great stuff going on and not a peep from the CM. Other threads, which barely get any attention from the community or are just completely inane topics get feedback from the CM. It really confuses me.


The nerf thread doesn't need any more blue posts and it was like 300 pages or something.

Just because a topic is large because the discussion is going in loops over and over again doesn't mean it needs a blue to comment in it continuing the loop.

Large actual topics with no blue post could use some input though.
I just wanna know... did you see the casino posts? We want to gamble!
01/24/2012 10:35 AMPosted by Catareroll
ok but you can't tell us you're just as likely to notice a thread with 5 replies as you are to notice a thread with 23 pages of replies.


Yes. We are just as likely to notice a smaller thread as we are to notice the larger ones. Sometimes, the best conversations are on the first few pages (not to say we don't read through the entire thread.) The reason being, that often, the conversation is more focused on the topic at hand and as the thread lengthens, we either see repeat discussions/arguments, or it begins to expand to other topics that may not be as relevant to the main topic of the original post.

BTW, contrary to popular belief (and not to start a moderation discussion.) We do not delete threads solely on the idea that it's saying it dislikes something we've designed or done to the game. We generally delete non-constructive threads or repeat threads since they often don't lead to good discussion or split conversation which makes it more difficult for us to sift through them for the constructive bits.


Large actual topics with no blue post could use some input though.


Those are the topics that concern me the most. For example, in the MoP area we hit the post limit and had a decent sized second thread on the new Mage talents. There were the occasional trolls but there was a lot of good discussion and there was not a peep from the CM's.

In those threads some feedback would have been great. There were very in depth discussions on talents and their usefulness, lack of usefulness or simple tweaks that would make them more useful.

I, and I suspect others, feel like we are spinning our wheels because we don't know what direction the devs are planning to take?

For example, why are there so many freezes effects in the mage talents? There is an entire tier of just freeze effects. Some people were guessing because they needed to guarantee that we have enough for PvP to work for shatter combos to function. Some people said it didn't matter and it was for another reason.

Some tiers have brutally obvious choices. Some have obvious choices, unless we make a massive assumption on how things are going to be in MoP, in which case we may have a choice. Making a massive assumption may make it usable, but knowing if that assumption is correct really makes a difference.

This is the stuff I am more interested in the feedback on.
01/24/2012 10:00 AMPosted by Nethaera
Generally, yes. If we see some really good feedback or ideas, we will often take it with us when we meet with the developers (which is generally a weekly face to face meeting.) We don't want to give the wrong impression that feedback given equals a guaranteed change based on that feedback.


when you see good ideas on the forums, do you send a letter in game(or something) to give kudos to the person who posted said good idea? that would be awesome to receive.

goes to mailbox on miserable monday. poof.. you got mail

" hey ____ , we saw your idea in the forums ! we may try to impliment it in the game ! thanks , the devs"

woot made my day !!
^ that would rock !!
01/24/2012 11:27 AMPosted by Nethaera
BTW, contrary to popular belief (and not to start a moderation discussion.) We do not delete threads solely on the idea that it's saying it dislikes something we've designed or done to the game. We generally delete non-constructive threads or repeat threads since they often don't lead to good discussion or split conversation which makes it more difficult for us to sift through them for the constructive bits.


Rather than just deleting them though, couldn't you simply do as say, the moderators on The Old Republic forums do, which is to close the thread (not delete it), and in your post link to the appropriate thread in which the discussion is supposed to be taking place. For example, there are multiple posts on the TOR forums that come up time and again about ability lag, or framerate issues. Rather than just deleting that topic, the moderators acknowledge the concerns, and then post the link to the thread where they would like to keep all discussion centered.
And by this you mean skype :D

It is nice to know when you bring an idea out that someone notices it. Why cant a CM say. Interesting I'll mention this during our weekly dev meeting.


Because outside of a hippie commune. statements like that create false expectations.
01/24/2012 11:38 AMPosted by Lukar
BTW, contrary to popular belief (and not to start a moderation discussion.) We do not delete threads solely on the idea that it's saying it dislikes something we've designed or done to the game. We generally delete non-constructive threads or repeat threads since they often don't lead to good discussion or split conversation which makes it more difficult for us to sift through them for the constructive bits.


Rather than just deleting them though, couldn't you simply do as say, the moderators on The Old Republic forums do, which is to close the thread (not delete it), and in your post link to the appropriate thread in which the discussion is supposed to be taking place. For example, there are multiple posts on the TOR forums that come up time and again about ability lag, or framerate issues. Rather than just deleting that topic, the moderators acknowledge the concerns, and then post the link to the thread where they would like to keep all discussion centered.

Some threads are just better off to be deleted so they can remove information that doesn't belong on the forums. Other times they lock the thread and post reason why. And they do link to threads to consolidate discussion becuase some people try to go around long threads.

Generally, yes. If we see some really good feedback or ideas, we will often take it with us when we meet with the developers (which is generally a weekly face to face meeting.) We don't want to give the wrong impression that feedback given equals a guaranteed change based on that feedback.


I know this happens because I've seen my ideas come back in patch notes or developer blogs despite not having gotten any direct feedback when they were suggested. Of course, then again, it could simply be a case of great minds think alike.
Surely there must be SOME threads that slip by the blues. I doubt they have enough time to read every single one.
Pretending you saw an idea or topic of discussion that you decided maybe the developers might want to hear of; how long, generally speaking, does it take for you to hear something back yourself before you can relay to the public.

No specific numbers, just a generalization is all I am curious about.
Blue is watching you..

...Even when you sleep.
Those are the topics that concern me the most. For example, in the MoP area we hit the post limit and had a decent sized second thread on the new Mage talents. There were the occasional trolls but there was a lot of good discussion and there was not a peep from the CM's.

In those threads some feedback would have been great. There were very in depth discussions on talents and their usefulness, lack of usefulness or simple tweaks that would make them more useful.

I, and I suspect others, feel like we are spinning our wheels because we don't know what direction the devs are planning to take?

For example, why are there so many freezes effects in the mage talents? There is an entire tier of just freeze effects. Some people were guessing because they needed to guarantee that we have enough for PvP to work for shatter combos to function. Some people said it didn't matter and it was for another reason.


The CM's don't make decisions like that though. They could say something like we are aware of your concerns and there will be an update soon that further covers this situation. Even just acknowledging someones concerns when you cant do anything about them is comforting.


01/24/2012 12:11 PMPosted by Magnatik
Surely there must be SOME threads that slip by the blues. I doubt they have enough time to read every single one.


Unless something pops up at work I try and keep up with the general forums. Its not an easy feat especially if you are trying to read every post.
Pretending you saw an idea or topic of discussion that you decided maybe the developers might want to hear of; how long, generally speaking, does it take for you to hear something back yourself before you can relay to the public.

No specific numbers, just a generalization is all I am curious about.


Releasing any information is a case by case bases. I think that question is a little to broad. Try to find a post with an idea in the forums for any of the MoP content they have said they are coming out with and you will see the wide variety of response times.
01/24/2012 09:48 AMPosted by Nethaera
Sometimes we just don't have anything we could effectively add to the conversation


Do any of us the majority of the time?
01/24/2012 09:48 AMPosted by Nethaera
We don't have elaborate schemes.

Hmm. Or are scheming about having no schemes?

You CMs are more roguey than the greatest rogues.

You lurk in places nobody expects, and nobody will ever know what you did, and did not read.
01/24/2012 11:27 AMPosted by Nethaera
ok but you can't tell us you're just as likely to notice a thread with 5 replies as you are to notice a thread with 23 pages of replies.


Yes. We are just as likely to notice a smaller thread as we are to notice the larger ones. Sometimes, the best conversations are on the first few pages (not to say we don't read through the entire thread.) The reason being, that often, the conversation is more focused on the topic at hand and as the thread lengthens, we either see repeat discussions/arguments, or it begins to expand to other topics that may not be as relevant to the main topic of the original post.

BTW, contrary to popular belief (and not to start a moderation discussion.) We do not delete threads solely on the idea that it's saying it dislikes something we've designed or done to the game. We generally delete non-constructive threads or repeat threads since they often don't lead to good discussion or split conversation which makes it more difficult for us to sift through them for the constructive bits.

Mind turning some of this apparent "thread noticing" toward the PvP, warrior, and damage dealing groups in the forum? Don't see a lot of attention anywhere near that area.

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