General Discussion
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I've always speculated that GM's when they -do- have an oppinion of their own they are passionate about, they would post on their player-characters rather than start up some mass blizzard-hate or drama.

Things like Lore / PvP balance that the GM's likely have as much general knowledge on as the players themselves. Who knows :O !
01/24/2012 01:18 PMPosted by Warmage
Mind turning some of this apparent "thread noticing" toward the PvP, warrior, and damage dealing groups in the forum? Don't see a lot of attention anywhere near that area.

Think of blues as outside help. They do not class balance or develop new content but they do take things that stand out to them on occasion to the ones that do.

The term Forum moderator fits well with the term Community Manager.
01/24/2012 12:39 PMPosted by Kularanini
Do any of us the majority of the time?

No, but that rarely seems to stop people from posting.
I just wish there were a way to know that Blizzard has seen a suggestion and will consider it.

When there was a suggestions forum, we knew. It got removed, though.

I've have two current suggestions, both of which I think would solve some annoying problems. I can only have faith that the designers have considered or are considering them.
Mind turning some of this apparent "thread noticing" toward the PvP, warrior, and damage dealing groups in the forum? Don't see a lot of attention anywhere near that area.

Think of blues as outside help. They do not class balance or develop new content but they do take things that stand out to them on occasion to the ones that do.

The term Forum moderator fits well with the term Community Manager.

And yet the same thing is said in game. "Think of the term 'Game Master' as outside help. They do not relay any information regarding customer complaints or legitimate class issues toward the developer team for legal reasons." The forum moderators, however, can tell us if we will be seeing a more balanced WoW, or one that we should be unsubscribing from.

My post was also not about them changing anything. It was about questioning why there seems to be a intolerable lack of consideration in the PvP section of the forum. We don't see any blues in the warrior threads, damage dealing threads, arenas threads, or any of those threads for that matter. All we see are responses to topics that can be fixed through Blizzards support section or contacting them about the issue.
01/24/2012 09:04 AMPosted by Reveries
Still more feedback from blue posters would be nice. Stop scaring them away dissecting meanies!

This for truth. :)

I read a lot of posts here but don't necessarily reply to all of them and I assume most people do the same. Who's to say that "Blizzard" (CM's) doesn't do the exact same? ;)

Well maybe YOU don't... :p

No, seriously, I have this bad habit - unless a thread just has nothing left to say (and sometimes even if it does), I make a post in it to say something.

I guess in my weird little mind, I've already clicked into the thread, I may as well post about something. Probably due to my knowledge sharing/teaching motivation. -shrug- That and I love taking part in good/interesting discussions/debates.

They are probably reading this right now :O


This is especially creepy in that Neth replied after you said it. :O

"We're always watching!" -Angels in the Outfield (and for some reason, that creeped me out as a kid, lol)

01/24/2012 09:28 AMPosted by Curufinwe
But what really bugs me is that people have to be reminded of this again and again, and even then, if they don't get what they want (in their thread) they complain and say that blizz doesn't care.

You have to realized it's disheartening to people when they put out something that's a good idea (at least to them) or that starts a good discussion, everyone agrees on it, and yet there's never a Blue to say, "Hey, that IS a good idea, we'll put that in the game," or "Well, there are reasons (tech, code, whatever) that we can't do that...but (if it's a good idea) we may be working on something similar in the future."

Like just lately I had four semi-decent ideas - portal rooms/dailies/transmog/reforgers in all capitals (I don't care about getting people out in the world right now, I just want to get them out of ORGRIMMAR!), Enchanting being able to craft staves and wands with Engineering being able to craft "compound" bows, bringing back faction BG rep (like WSG/AB/AV) complete with rewards (just unlike Vanilla, they can make the rewards scale to level with the same code used for BOAs) AND world entrances (the big one with me - give BGs a place in the world again, helps with game immersion), and...something else a bit more complex.

Ideas that range from simple to complex and from quality of life to change the game (hopefull for the better, like a revamping of how the 5 man normal/5 man heroic system works to make...well, look for my thread on it if you're that interested. :p)

On some level, I'm fairly sure they get read and probably all discarded, but it's sometimes nice when someone will come along and tell you that your ideas are stupid, just to get rid of the uncertainty of whether or not they'll ever be employing you. :)

01/24/2012 09:48 AMPosted by Nethaera
We don't have elaborate schemes

That's just what I'd expect someone with elaborate schemes TO say! /tinfoil hat.

Hi Neth. ^_^

EDIT: I should make one final note, though... does tend to happen more (all feedback, though I'd like to hope more of the good, constructive kind) when people think they're being heard. Blues responding less makes some people have a sad and feedback less. :(

...on the other hand, we know from WoWs history that the devs do, from time to time (and sometimes fairly often), listen to and apply feedback and suggestions to the live game. So take heart, feedback and suggestion-ers!
01/24/2012 01:34 PMPosted by Xuzen
've posted questions about LFR loot about options to transferring from low pop servers, stuff all the time that is actually probably really affecting the game but they are ignored.

A lot of people pop into the forums and think they have a unique issue and LFR loot is a perfect example. Tons of people come in everyday saying how they would fix LFR loot and blizzard has already said they are fixing it. Why should a blue take time to respond to someone who isn't reading the posts they took time to write?
01/24/2012 01:34 PMPosted by Xuzen
I've posted questions about LFR loot about options to transferring from low pop servers, stuff all the time that is actually probably really affecting the game but they are ignored.

If they can discuss an issue in direct response to a question or problem that's brought up, they will.

It would get really old quick if they did take the time to reply to every thread, "We don't have any further comment on this." (Plus that'd set conspiracy theorists on about negative answers meaning more than they do.)

I do understand your sentiment, though. I've participated in critical feedback before from everything from mage nerfs back in BC (I'm a mage, come on, we QQ) to recent gripes on the Darkmoon Faire. I understand how frustrating it is to feel like the Blues are responding to relatively trivial matters, but not the issue that's important to you and others of like mind.

However, much of that sense is an illusion. We feel like we're not being listened to, but we are. The key point of this thread is that blues do read this stuff. They know what people are saying about transfers, low-pop servers, LFR loot, the Darkmoon Faire, mages perpetually QQing, PvP balance, etc..

To some extent, and beyond reasonable critical and constructive feedback (which is encouraged), I think we need to sit back and trust Blizzard to take overall player concerns into account in the ongoing development and maintenance of the game.
01/24/2012 09:48 AMPosted by Nethaera
Sometimes our intervention can actually skew a conversation off track if we're not careful.

Your plan to cover up your schemes, we see right through it.

Almost immediately knew that a certain poster would be posting ASAP to a blue response, and (ironically) derailing the thread.

It's good to know though that blues are watching, even if not posting.
01/24/2012 02:55 PMPosted by Gunny
TLDR: A little bit of communication goes a long way - and forum moderation isn't communication at all.

I think the Blues do a decent job of communicating with us through the forums. We are quite the group of trolls, and for every good idea I've seen on the forums, there's five bad ones.

That Blizzard has no schemes, though, I can't believe. They are much to epic to not scheme.
01/24/2012 10:00 AMPosted by Nethaera
Generally, yes. If we see some really good feedback or ideas, we will often take it with us when we meet with the developers (which is generally a weekly face to face meeting.) We don't want to give the wrong impression that feedback given equals a guaranteed change based on that feedback.

While I do see the wisdom in that, this thread gives me the vague hope that the half-baked suggestion posts I've made over the years were actually read by someone.

I'm tempted to ask - has there ever been a thread with less than a page worth of entries - or any replies at all - that have been brought along to developer meetings?

"The glass is half-full. The glass is half full..."
*takes a swig*

...oh, bother.
01/24/2012 11:27 AMPosted by Nethaera
ok but you can't tell us you're just as likely to notice a thread with 5 replies as you are to notice a thread with 23 pages of replies.

Yes. We are just as likely to notice a smaller thread as we are to notice the larger ones. Sometimes, the best conversations are on the first few pages (not to say we don't read through the entire thread.) The reason being, that often, the conversation is more focused on the topic at hand and as the thread lengthens, we either see repeat discussions/arguments, or it begins to expand to other topics that may not be as relevant to the main topic of the original post.

BTW, contrary to popular belief (and not to start a moderation discussion.) We do not delete threads solely on the idea that it's saying it dislikes something we've designed or done to the game. We generally delete non-constructive threads or repeat threads since they often don't lead to good discussion or split conversation which makes it more difficult for us to sift through them for the constructive bits.
what about this: say it's a weekend and none of the CMs are around, but someone posts an amazing thread saturday morning. Because it's so amazing, no one has anything negative to say - and as you probably know, when the people on this forum don't have anything negative to say, they generally don't say anything at all. This means by the time the CMs roll in on monday morning, said amazing post will probably be on page 30 of the forums.

Can you honestly tell me that a post 30 pages back is just as likely to be brought to the attention of the developers as a post on the first page?
01/24/2012 09:48 AMPosted by Nethaera
We don't have elaborate schemes. That would mean we have a lot more time on our hands than we actually do to sit, plot and plan.

I LOL'd... I bet what you all really do is when you see each other first thing, the secret greeting is (ie:) "What are you going to do today, Nethaera?" Secret response: "The same thing we do every day, <insert fellow CMs nane>, try to annoy the forum posters!"

*grins* You guys are great, thanks for the laughs, info, and over all great job!
The problem with this community's perception of the role or lack of presence of CMs in these forums is a lack of perspective ( I think this was mentioned already by someone) People just aren't seeing the big picture.

I've posted this before, that these forums are primarily a resource that Blizzard uses to improve the game; they sift all the junk and pull a few good ideas that they implement down the road whenever. This is evident to anyone who has spent a few years reading blue comments on these forums.

These forums are NOT, primarily, where you come to interact with Blizzard, it may happen but it is unrealistic to come here and post, expecting a CM to make you feel good about an idea you posted.

When this community was smaller, there was more direct interaction with CMs, for example, we had class reps that would post in class forums. But that has changed.

My point is, people just need to tone down their expectations of CMs in light of the primary function of these forums, if they ever decide to post in the pvp, warrior or whatever forum, just consider yourself lucky.

ps. like I said, this is just my interpretation, gained from ~ 7 years of frequenting these forums
01/24/2012 10:00 AMPosted by Nethaera

I would have loved to have seen more than 1 blue post in that LFR thread that was 24+ pages long.

Now you say all posts are read but when we see that in the PTR there is a little fix to LFR that address just one little issue that plagues LFR. So you stop the same person from winning 2 of the same item but that doesn't stop them from winning 2 or 3 different items from the same boss drop. I could go on about all the other loot problems in LFR but I am trusting that you did actually read them...

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