Ironman Challenge IV

General Discussion
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question. would a druid or a hunter be more survivable? i'd think the druid cause they could go bear form. but then again hunters have pets to distract mobs
Really hate the fact that someone insisted on defacing our fun. Ironbraids, as much as I hate saying it, perhaps a locked version of the spreadsheet would be less prone to vandalism. I have deleted the filth that was in the spreadsheet, but it needs all the info back now.

/sadpanda
After a morning that seemed to last forever with some quests that had me going to point A and killing X number of things then back to turn it in. Then going back out to point B killing X number of things and coming back, etc. etc... I decided to take a little break.

I broke out my little journal as I had a snack and started looking over all I had done so far. Wow I had done over 250 quests! I then started to calculate some numbers about reputation and found that I was lacking in my standing with the people of Gilneas. It was then that Lennah, the resident Mage trainer at Bloodwatch, came over and chatted me up to see what I was up to. I was explaining to him my situation and he told me I should probably head over across the pond to Duskwood. Great, just what I wanted to do, get back on that creaky boat that takes forever to get to Stormwind. He then told me he could teach me a spell of Teleportation. That sounded right up my alley. He showed me a few things and I was off!

I started to cast my spell and was surrounded by an aura of bright arcane magic when poof I was transported to the Mage tower in Stormwind. Once I gathered my thoughts on how awesome it was I noticed my whole body seemed to be on fire with invisible flames. I guess traveling through the nether at such a high rate of speed does have it's side effects. I took some deep breaths and composed myself as the feeling started to subside. I then made my way to the flight master and took a gryphon to Duskwood.

Right when I got there I had people waving me over and offering me quests that needed to be done. After I had completed a couple quests, I was asked to kill the Insane Ghoul. I guess there was only one insane ghoul because that was actually his name. So off I went to burn up some undead. After a brief time of killing some skeletons and other undead I found him running around a little chapel in the Tranquil Gardens Cemetery.

http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r587/Wizspindle/Wiz_2.jpg

I let loose with a frostbolt and proceeded to lead him out and around the cemetery, never letting him get close enough to touch me. Once I got up above him on the hillside it was lights out for this insane ghoul.

http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r587/Wizspindle/Wiz_3.jpg

After that It didn't take much more and my calculations had put me over into now being Honored with the people of Gilneas. I braced myself once again as I began to teleport to The Exodar. I think I'm going to love this spell, just not the side effects.

[Level 25 - 23 hours, 10 minutes, 31 seconds]
Thanks everyone for checking in and good luck. I really like the pictures Wiz!

I'm not sure how I feel about locking the spreadsheet. This is our second vanalism, and it'll probably keep happening, but then I know how much time and work it was for Aber to manage something like this on his own. I'd like to hear Ironbraids' thoughts on it though.

02/02/2012 08:29 AMPosted by Ironbrit
BTW Selena: I may have been too hasty about the Dailes. They are not the same as others, and if there is no death risk you can coast to max level slowly but surely. Maybe mention any that fall in this category by name, and explicitly exclude them (No Argent Tournament Dailies).

That sounds like a good compromise.

AG participation can be easily checked here:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/moon-guard/Ironaria/achievement#155:14941
02/02/2012 11:15 AMPosted by Syssae
They're free.

I know the rule is in a bit of a "gray area" (especially with AH-players on WrA making it hard) but you shouldn't be gifting items across characters. If you want to help someone out try to charge a reasonable price and trade it.

Otherwise it's not really fair to the players who aren't on WrA who don't have that community giving them hand-me-downs.
Thanks everyone for checking in and good luck. I really like the pictures Wiz!

I'm not sure how I feel about locking the spreadsheet. This is our second vanalism, and it'll probably keep happening, but then I know how much time and work it was for Aber to manage something like this on his own. I'd like to hear Ironbraids' thoughts on it though.


Honestly, once I notice vandalism it takes about two minutes to restore to a previous version. I just have to look through the Revision History and find the latest point before the vandalism. I'm also making daily (and sometimes more) private backups of the page that I can restore to as well. I'd say if people deface it, just clear out their filth, and post a note either here (or better yet, on the page itself at the top) asking me to restore it.

Most of my classes are on computers, and there is always some downtime while the profs are helping someone with a specific problem to pop in and check the sheet.

At this point the ease of restoring the spreadsheet far outweighs the effort any trolls put into defacing it.
02/02/2012 10:56 AMPosted by Ironbrit
question. would a druid or a hunter be more survivable? i'd think the druid cause they could go bear form. but then again hunters have pets to distract mobs

I think it's Hunters all the way. Our pet is a Tank, and we're DPS and Healer. Thus we are an entire group in one nice package.

Cheers.

Not trying to stir up trouble, mind, just an observation from the Peanut Gallery, but...

This is what has me a little bothered. One of the "rules" both in letter and spirit says "no groups". The intent is to solo everything without aid, yet Hunters and Warlocks both get "pets" of various sorts that give them a distinct "group-like" advantage over all other classes.

I'm not saying we need to reevaluate, change, delete or otherwise tinker with the rules...leave things as they are. I just want it made clear that -- to me at least -- use of Hunters and/or Warlocks does water down the impact of success in this Challenge.

More power to everyone, of course, I just can't help say that non-pet using participants are acutally functioning closer to the concept... doing it the harder way... than pet users. Yes, yes, each class has some "edge" the others don't, whether it's stealthing, self-healing, whatever. But haveing two actual bodies to utilize is so little different from grouping that I hardly see the difference.

Just my 2c.
Document found in a field near Garren’s Haunt, Tirisfal Glades.

I am Legion, for I am many; champion of the numberless victims of the plague whose souls scream for justice… and if none is to be found then for vengeance. I write to remember…

Still I am relegated to menial tasks; bring me this, take that over there…make-work of the lowest sort. But slowly my standing with these… “people”… grows. Already Master Trias’ instructions have begun paying dividends as I put them to use ostensibly for my “masters” but ultimately for myself. I have been accorded the “honor” of committing murder for them – many times. And I complied, without compunction, for I have sworn that no task is too demeaning nor too foul if it will lead finally to the vengeance I have sworn on those who have made me what I am… who have made so many of my people and so much of my homeland into… this.

In my work I have finally seen what became of the ruins of once mighty Lordaeron – now called Undercity. It is a fitting monument to the unspeakable putrefaction of mind and body beget by fiends. A short visit there was enough to convince me that my task will be long and difficult for any power capable of transmuting such a wonder as Lordaeron into something so revolting must be mighty indeed. It only makes me more determined, and hisses in my ear of the need for even greater caution.

Among the guards I have heard whispered rumors of another abomination in the world. Gilneas has become a den of terror in its own right; a different sort of plague having swept there. Instead of death it brings transformation – a profane affliction which makes men into beasts, figuratively and literally. Rumors mouthed about say Gilneas still possesses Alchemists competent enough to have gained some limited control or influence over this curse; that those beset are capable of a limited morphosis of body without complete loss of mind. I find it interesting that their woes are so little different from my own. I look forward to meeting these newly- christened “Worgen” and wonder if there are any amongst them who would listen to me and … perhaps… aid me in my goal. If given a good opportunity, I shall surely investigate.

I find the story of the family Agamand a sad one. I shall say little about it but that I did what was needful there as I did with the Scarlet Crusaders so nearby. I understand fanaticism all too well, but I also understand that it must be leavened with staunch practicality or it is wasted effort.

Here I must make mention of a particular person. Within hours of my rebirth I thrice came into the presence of a woman named Lillian Voss. I know little of her story or of her family but what I have experienced tells me that I have not seen the last of her. From denial of her state as walking dead to an embrace so complete that she instills near-panic in her foes speaks greatly to her potential. I do not know if she may become ally or enemy. It may be wisest to prepare for both and embrace the finality in full measure when it comes, whichever it may be, for I mark that such a meeting is nearly inevitable.

I am Forsaken, and…

I am Legion.
02/02/2012 11:34 AMPosted by Ironbraids
At this point the ease of restoring the spreadsheet far outweighs the effort any trolls put into defacing it.

Good to know! We'll leave it as is then.

02/02/2012 11:45 AMPosted by Aberzombie
More power to everyone, of course, I just can't help say that non-pet using participants are acutally functioning closer to the concept... doing it the harder way... than pet users.

I'm going to have to fundamentally disagree with you here. While I agree that hunters/warlocks are probably (I have very little experience with anything else) easier than the other classes, that in and of itself does not mean they are skirting the intention of the rules. The rules, as I understand them, are meant to limit the player in significant ways, but still create room for personal skill and knowledge to play a role in success. In this case, knowing which class to play and which quests to take can and do give an advantage.

Maybe I'm inferring here, but you seem to be suggesting here, "functioning closer to the concept... doing it the harder way... than pet users," that the harder you make it on yourself the more genuinely you're playing the challenge. And I think that's unduly offensive to hunter and warlock players. They selected their classes based on the limitations presented at the time, and made smart decisions based on those limitations. To retroactively call that "cheating" is unfair. Rather, how I would phrase it is to say "it is harder and more impressive to complete this challenge with a warrior than with a hunter/warlock." That way you're not diminishing the achievement of hunters/warlocks but elevating the achievement of other classes.

Now, of course, we could have required that everyone play a warrior and quest through X-Y-Z zones to create true uniformity. That would have allowed participants to demonstrate their skill with the class, but it would simultaneously detract from their knowledge of the game more generally. I don't think this a "better or worse" question in the same way I don't think Neverdied's challenge can be compared to ours in such simple terms. The challenges are different.

Finally, to your first point about the "group-like" nature of pet-classes:

It's a matter of interpretation, so I can see where that's coming from. But those pets are also a significant part of the toolbox available to hunters/warlocks. Warlocks, for example, have a rarely useful CC (banish) an unreliable CC (fear --unglyphed), and no slows or stuns for the majority of their leveling period. Mages, on the other hand, have a strong CC (polymorph), slows, freezes, blink, and iceblock to help them navigate the lower levels. Removing pets takes pet-classes off the top of the class hierarchy but it doesn't eliminate that hierarchy.

Pet-classes are functioning as they intended to function and one of their abilities functions in a similar way to a listed rule. But this is true of other, perhaps less obvious, abilities. Healthstones are the equivalent of health potions. Mana Gems are the equivalent of mana potions. Sprint is the equivalent of swiftness potions. My point is that class abilities, all of them, are fine because they are part of a varied toolbox that allows those classes to survive in difficulty situations. The rules, as I understand them, were not to say "getting health in combat" is banned, "getting mana in combat is banned," and "running fast is banned." In my mind, they were meant to force the player to do the most with whatever tools, all the tools, their class was given. That means, to me, the "no groups" rule doesn't mean "having anything but your character take the damage in combat is banned," it's referring to outside assistance. Just like all the other rules.

Anyway, that's my take. Feel free to respond.
Ironworgen posted:
Posted by Ironcross
Just a word of warning to those on WRA alli side. Apparently among those who have begun posting white and grey items on the AH for us to buy and use, are a few trying to ruin challengers. These items are being posted with enchants cast on them, so if you use one you'll be disqualified. Just letting everyone know to watch before you buy so there aren't any accidents.


In keeping with my Spirit of the Law over the Letter attitude, disqualification seems awful harsh. Just remove the item and move on.

I really don't see this as any different than some player giving you a buff that you don't initially notice which you later remove when it comes to your attention.

As this is an individual challenge with nothing more than a set of guidelines, it is ultimately up to you to decide whether any infraction you make is unforgivable


I absolutely agree with the these comments. It is a solo challenge, and according to the spirit of the challenge, only you can ultimately determine if you broke the spirit or not. However, everyone should be aware that your armory page is public, and you will likely be called out, in public, for violating any rules that can be determined--no matter how fleetingly or irrelevantly. I don't know if it can be determined whether or not you ever wore enchanted items though.

Ironworgen, thank you for always bringing us back to the spirit and heart of this challenge...that's where the fun is. We are all trying to find out if we can level to 85 with only bare bones gear....and you are more bare bones than any of us. Grats on your progress.
Joining the challenge today is the paladin Diarca on the server Kirin Tor.
not mean they are skirting the intention of the rules.

To retroactively call that "cheating" is unfair.

I don't think this a "better or worse" question in the same way I don't think Neverdied's challenge can be compared to ours in such simple terms. The challenges are different.

Hmmmm.... from your solidly negative reaction it seems my generally snarky sense of humor gets me into trouble again (you would be amazed at how many times my wife whacks me for it every day!). What I wrote was actually intended as more tongue-in-cheek than anything else.

We've had a fair degree of acrimony over a number of nit-pick issues to date and when I read
Our pet is a Tank, and we're DPS and Healer. Thus we are an entire group in one nice package
it tapped my sarcasm button.

Sorry for the mis-aimed bolt. I'll try to be more careful about where I flex my "smart-a$$".

Consider me spanked.


Ironbrit said:

02/02/2012 01:04 PMPosted by Ironbrit
Aguantar - Can you slow down please. I'm trying to keep up with you but having a hard time :)


Bah, you've been catching up just fine, this toon was started long before yours....you'll pass me today, if you haven't already :) I won't be on this toon much for a few days, I promised my raid leader a new raid-ready toon by next thurs /sigh. So my lead will slip substantially. But don't give up on me!! I may be taking a wee break, but I'll be back.

Whew Aberzombie, I'm glad that was your version of sarcasm, because I am totally not used to you being anything but kind and helpful. It did not sound like you, if taken seriously.
02/02/2012 02:21 PMPosted by Aguantar
Whew Aberzombie, I'm glad that was your version of sarcasm, because I am totally not used to you being anything but kind and helpful. It did not sound like you, if taken seriously.
As I said, my wife thumps me a lot.

I hardly feel the day has been worth its while unless I've at least made her roll her eyes at me.

"If looks could kill," I'd be bruised from head to toe most of the time, lol!

Actually, I was hoping for feedback, but nothing quite that... um... harsh. It's really my own fault. I'm very much the type of person who communicates best face-to-face where I can see expressions and body language, I can hear voice tones, etc. There are a whole host of information bits in those that one just does not receive via such a limited a mode as writing. I detest telephones for the same reason... I get the voice, but not the rest... so there's a disconnect I'm sometimes at a loss to deal with. I'm well enough over 50 one would think I would have developed better skills at such things, but, alas I haven't.

As I said, it's my own fault... and shows why I'm not a professional comedian... I misread my audience and "died" for it.

Just another on my list of reasons why I say, "My life is an exercise in Murphy's Law".

Smiles to everyone.

edit for spelling.
Sorry it's been a while since my last correspondence. Those dwarves in Loch Modan have been keeping me busy! From troggs to kobolds to spiders, they've had me killing just about every kind of creature you can find there. Glad to do it too; the money they've paid me, along with the things I've "obtained" from the corpses, has allowed me to make quite a good living. This has come just in time, too. I've had to find myself a new place in IF.

I decided after killing my second rat, it was time to alert my landlord to the problem. So what does this dirty mage do in response? HE RAISES MY RENT! Well I wasn't about to pay more to live in a rat infested building, a warlock has got to have standards, you know. I told that mage where he could stick his rent and moved on. I knew it was a bad idea for a warlock to live in the Mystic ward....

I've found a nice place just off the Great Forge. It's slightly smaller, but at least there's no rats! The rent unfortunately is much higher, must have something to do with the location, I guess.

Had a close call with some Twilight Hammer cultists yesterday. Seems they had moved in on some of the new land exposed with the breaking of the dam here in the Loch, and a disheartened gnome asked me to destroy some device they had. They were using it to shape the land in their will, or something like that; kinda drifted off during the story. All i know is the gnome offered to pay me, so I was on my way. Well I make my way through their camp and reach the machine. I only see one guard, so I'm thinkin this is gonna be a piece of cake! I send in Zhar'kath to do what he does best, only to find out there were two other guards. Now this in and of itself would have been okay, but it turns out the machine had it's own built-in defense mechanism, and started firing at Zhar'kath and then me. Well I don't really feel like making another trip in a Soulstone quite yet, so i hightailed it out of there to regroup, barely escaping with my life. Luckily the second attempt went much smoother. When I returned to the gnome, my "heroic" act apparently inspired him to fulfill his destiny as a pilot(gnome pilots? CRAZY! How do they see over the controls?). I was just happy to receive my payment on continue on my way.

Unfortunately, the opportunities for work in Loch Modan seemed to have dried up(sorry about the pun, couldn't help myself). Looks as though I'm gonna have to move on; a gnome's gotta pay his rent, ya know. I'll have to stop by the Hero's Call board here in IF to see if any new job opportunities have been posted. First I'm gonna hit the inn and tip back a few. I feel I've earned myself a little downtime.

Ironmikey.....the gnome!
lvl 24 Warlock
Wyrmrest Accord

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