Too scared to Arena...

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This sounds like a blanket post about rogues and Vial trinket.

There is nothing to be worried about. What helps is not taking Arena seriously.

Until Blizzard puts an actual effort into some semblance of balance there is really no reason to stress over your performance in arena. Some classes outright dominate others, i.e. counter class like Mages vs Warriors.

A game like Starcraft is something I'd take seriously because the game is actually intended to be somewhat balanced for competitive play. WOW Arena is a joke in comparison. You do it for fun and nothing more.

The Blizzard poster gives good advice but at the same time I can't see how any of it matters in a game that is clearly not intended to be "fair" in PVP. Taking Arena seriously requires a much different mindset and most don't have that. If you don't you are better off playing for fun or at the very least to just cap your arena points then stop.
The other thing I feel Blizzard doesn't really have "right" is the interplay between the "kiting classes" (hunter, ranged dps, healers) and the "pursuit classes" (mainly melee dps). It seems like an all or none affair. Either the kiter can't be touched at all or he can never get away. It needs to be so that there's a give and take where encounters involve both sides of that coin to have the advantage and disadvantage. There are many situations where you cannot "get away" from a pursuer, no matter what you do. I think Blizz has failed in a major way when it comes to the dance between pursuit and being pursued. A really fine example of this failure is frost mage vs warrior or hunter vs. any class w/ a permanent slow.

"This game is not balanced 1v1" - Ok, so why have duels? And if Blizz can't balance 1v1, what in the world are they thinking with pet battles? Additionally, whether you "like it or not" a lot of this game is 1 v 1. There's no way to avoid it. If Blizzard and other companies can design pvp encounters that aren't so out of wack in small scale confrontations, why can't they do it here? I'm not saying it should be perfectly balanced, but I am saying that every class should have an answer for every class at some level. Otherwise, it's truly just rock paper scissors.

"Like casual pvp matters" - Actually, casual pvp does matter. In fact, the vast majority of "pvp" is non-rated battlegrounds. Of course, it's not the part that carries prestige but it's the part that most people actually do. Just look around, anyone with the basic powers of observation will see that most people who pvp spend their time in a more casual setting. I'm not saying the game should be balanced around casual pvp, but I am saying that by the sheer volume of gameplay it provides for the majority of people who do pvp in WoW, it should matter. I personally like arenas, rbg's, and non rated bg's but like most of you, just by the sheer odds of it and how the culture of the gamebase works, most of my "pvp time" is in a non rated bg.

I just really feel that Blizzard is a bit out of touch with the larger part of what's going on in the PvP world. I think they are focused so tightly on some of the "wrong things" they miss what actually makes PvP fun for most people that play the game. Even Rob Pardo has said that the biggest mistake of WoW was Arenas but yet this fall what is Blizz taking to Asia? An arena tournament. What sense does that make. What part of Pardo's statement "WoW's biggest mistake" doesn't the current design team understand? Is this guy still VP of game design and BlizzActivsion?
don't like the crazy burst in arenas and pvp? don't pvp. The blues response looks like he's basically saying "suck it up and live with it til we get out a patch" which to me translates to "We don't care"

I did some pvp during 4.1 and 4.2 and thought it was great... Heck, it was my first time doing any kind of arena and RBGs and I got to around 1900 in both (i know this is nothing to most, but it was AWESOME to me). Now i feel like I can't kill anyone ever so I don't pvp. Play other games if you want to play against other players. If I want to play against other players I play LoL. If I want to kill internet dragons, I play WoW.
the blue is simply a gm that was trying to help

Of course this guy doesn't understand how pvp works at top level THAT'S NORMAL

get off your high horses people
Oh yeah... I want to come back to the tone of the blue post. Like I said before, whereas I think it's very cool they came into a pvp forum to participate and I don't want to punish that, I really feel the post itself offered pithy advice and seemed out of touch. A condensed version of the post really amounted to "learn to play". The thing is there's no amount of learning that will magically make you "in control of your character" when the game mechanics dictate you are "not in control of your character". Additionally, everyone is at the "level of play" they are at for a variety of reasons (skill, experience, brains, nimble fingers, talent, who you roll with) and with a good MMR you face off against people of similar "level of play" and so telling someone to "learn to play" will just mean they are going to face a new tier of rogues, dk's, mages (insert fotm class here) who are at that new "higher level of play" but the fundamental issues are the same.

Basically, the OP is saying, "at my level of play I don't like getting killed while not being in control of my character much of the time and their are certain classes (compounded by certain items) which makes this worse" so that saying "well get to a higher level of play" is NOT a solution. The same exact scenario will exist. There's no magical level of play or resilience where these issues go away.

Someone above posted a link to a what they said was a top level shaman being globalled by a mage and a rogue. It looks like the same exact stuff the OP is complaining about. The gameplay doesn't really change fundamentally the higher you go, it's more of the same with bigger numbers on all sides (b/c the gear is just that much more) but the encounter is just that much more stressful.

I used to heal in 3's to a high level and I can say there wasn't some grand sophistication to it. The higher up I went, the more intense but simplified my job became, heal more per second.

I'm not saying learning doesn't help because I can tell you over time, through modelling, I can make rogues pay dearly for trying to jack my hunter in bg's. However, that's because I'm pretty good at playing a hunter and most rogues I see right now are rerolls who are jumping on the fotm train and the "cool, we get a legendary" train. But then again, when I meet a skilled rogue, my hunter is almost a free kill for that guy. In the same way that, when I go after a hunter with my resto shaman, he has NO chance, he cannot get away from my relentless pursuit. He just doesn't have the tools.
01/27/2012 07:45 AMPosted by Eppelin
The blues response looks like he's basically saying "suck it up and live with it til we get out a patch"

Sort of true but not in a rude way. The GM is being helpful however there is no denying the fact that the current state of PVP is not going to change until Mists and even then it is questionable if it will be any better then current.

The GM is most likely not a developer so just appreciate the fact that we actually got a response.
01/27/2012 07:51 AMPosted by Nohman
The blues response looks like he's basically saying "suck it up and live with it til we get out a patch"

Sort of true but not in a rude way. The GM is being helpful however there is no denying the fact that the current state of PVP is not going to change until Mists and even then it is questionable if it will be any better then current.

The GM is most likely not a developer so just appreciate the fact that we actually got a response.

True, I did just put a very negative turn on it. But too, it's frustrating that they just say "it is what it is and we aren't fixing crap til you pay us $40 for another expansion".

That said, I stopped pvping. That's my way of protesting pvp.

All these first world problems do kind of suck when they all get added together.

It really is a crying shame. Blizzard used to be a developer that prided itself on quality of workmanship when it came to their games. It would seem that dogma, especially with PvP quality, has been on the downward spiral since WotLK and only picking up speed in Cataclysm.

I wonder why, what with the community treating every Blue who comes into this forum on the rare occasion like absolute crap. Those are obviously people Blizzard wants to listen to and take ideas from, am I right? All the butthurt and bitterness are not helping anything except digging your own graves, especially when you take it out on the people who develop the damn game. I think that's the biggest shame of all considering how many on here consistently cry out for PvP balance or for Blizzard to even glance at some of their suggestions.

You want PvP to improve? Drop the sarcastic comedy act and talk to Blizzard like they're fellow human beings and maybe they'll start listening. Or you could always keep doing what you're doing and let the PvErs continue to have a dominant say over every aspect of the game.

To be fair the amount of attention pve gets vs pvp is beyond staggering. There have been some aspects of pvp this expansion that is so laughably broken it makes you really sit down and think if blizzard does care at all.

Can you honestly look at the state of the game for the past 2 expansions (and to some degree TBC) and excuse blizzard's inability to create some semblance of balance in the pvp world. They have had FOUR YEARS at least of actually documentable pvp to draw data from to create a somewhat balanced experience.

Please for the Love of God tell me how do you excuse the burst going on in the game right now? This expansion literally was supposed to slow down the game and it has not at least not by anything all that noticeable.

We expect people to play 3v3 in it's current state? Sorry for what I have read and some of the videos I have seen people are dying in OPENERS.... It is WOTLK all over again.

Cata didnt fix a !@#$%ing thing and we sure as hell have a right to be pissed.
anyone else get the vibe that the blue did not bother to check and see this guy has around a 2k rating in 2v2 and 2.2k rating in 3v3? and well over 300 games played with his teams... Not exactly the top of the chart but most certainly he knows what he is doing in a battle at least to a certain extent.

LOL at the "coordinated attack" quote

Just admit you messed up and this season is toast.

I understand you're trying to be helpful blue.


There's blatant imbalances in the supposedly most balanced arena bracket. THAT'S what's keeping OP away from arenas. Learning their so called weaknesses won't get you anywhere when you find out that they really don't have any.
So I finally managed to dodge the angry barrage of 2k+ rated rogues running vial and hit 2.2k. The problem is I am currently too scared to que because of the shear amount of vial trinkets out there and the possibility of running into legendary daggers.

I have never been this scared in my life, I haven't played arena in over 2 weeks. I am currently having nightmares of rogues opening on me and killing me. It's not only rogues who keep me away from arena, Hunter/Melee cleaves are almost equally as scary. I like arena, I just dislike dying in openers. I dislike dying in openers so much that I can't even arena anymore. In WOTLK I never had this problem because it was actually balanced around that burst meaning people couldn't just rush in and spam CC and get a kill without risk of getting counter globalled. Cata burst is not intended therefore not prepared for meaning it's just plain stupid and gives unfair advantages to one side who can rush in and spend 30 second on CC people while being immune to damage and CC.

I don't really know what to do with myself. I have just been telling my partners I don't feel like arenaing but I think they might kick me off the team soon. I tried raiding I've just cleared 8/8 and it's getting a little boring. There are no real changes to fix anything in 4.3.2 except the vial nerf, but rogues still do crazy damage without vial.

You used "your" on your 3's team.
Pretty sure it's supposed to be "you're"
This blue post is a very polite "L2play". What a freaking insult.

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