Cataclysm PVP Feedback

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is this another thread that may change game play? sarcasm - love how the game rolls around the forum community. this is dumb. only a sweater vest charleston banks will fill out a "how was cata pvp" survey

  • What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? (Things that are an inconvenience but don't significantly affect game play or balance)

  • Getting BGs I don't like, I hate AV and IoC because it feels like such a cluster, and I don't feel I have much of an influence on the wins. I would really like the ability to blackball or have call to arms days throughout the week. Like Monday is AB! Tuesday is WSG etc etc etc

  • What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?

  • I think this may have come out in WOTLK, but timed WSGs and the two new BGs. They were small, interesting.

  • What Cataclysm Arena changes/additions did you like?

  • Not sure there were any to the arenas themselves.

  • What Cataclysm General PVP changes/additions did you like?

  • Conquest from BGs and Rated BGs.

  • What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?

  • Wall and hill clipping, not sure how it's okay for a range pvper(Mages and locks mostly) to hit melee through objects, especially on open fields where they'd have the advantage.

  • What are your top issues with Arenas in Cataclysm?

  • Class imbalance, I felt totally useless this expansion, we're not weak per say we just have bad class synergy.

  • What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?


  • Class imbalance, one spec being the hard counter to an entire cross class section of the pvp population isn't fair.

  • What already announced Mists PVP changes/additions are you most looking forward to? (here is a summary of what is coming: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3424795794 )

  • Nothing, I'm more concerned with resilience becoming a base stat to make PVP accessible to PVE'rs I worry that it'll make another vial fiasco.
    Would like more loot from picking up opponent insignia :) like gold and crafting mats, atleast gold since we do have repair bills.
    01/30/2012 12:56 AMPosted by Eldacar
    So much great feedback in this thread, I love it, keep it up guys!


    hi, did you see my topic? please man take a look, you are the only one who can do something :(

    i'm not asking blizzard to do what i want, i asking them to make it better for everyone!

    thanks in advance.
      What already announced Mists PVP changes/additions are you most looking forward to?


    By far the reintroduction of world bosses. The loot that they drop should be very desirable, perhaps a mix of current tier PVE and PVP gear, like the existing VoA/TB bosses (since as far as I can tell there will not be a VoA/TB equivalent in Mists. I think another interesting way to go about it would be to make everything they drop BoE, like Doomwalker's loot table, therefore giving players a potentially large gold incentive to try and take world boss kills, while still allowing players who simply can't get a kill a means of obtaining the gear via farming gold and purchasing whatever item they are after. They should also be on a reasonably short, random respawn timer and respawn location, perhaps in the region of 24-48 hours and potentially in any one of the new mists zones.
    What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? (Things that are an inconvenience but don't significantly affect game play or balance)
    1)Faction racials. There's always that feeling of being underpowered if your faction doesn't have the current strongest racials, or you play a class that doesn't have access to your faction's best class. Every Man for Himself is a very powerful racial, and all the other Alliance ones are rather lacklustre (some of the bordering on complete garbage). With the exception of Undead, all the Horde racials are at least 'quite good', with some of them being rather powerful. This leads to humans being seen as 'bogus', and a general feeling of 'Horde are OP'. A system where, when you make your toon, you can choose 2 or 3 'racial abilities' from a list of many, would feel a lot more balanced. Yes, you might lose that 'lore' aspect of 'feeling like a Draenei' or whatever, but balance should always trump aesthetics and 'mood' and other stuff when it comes to something as fragile as PvP.

    2) PvE gear in PvP. Having a rogue in full PvE, with Vial and the two Legendary daggers, come in and destroy me when I'm running a high-end amount of PvP gear and am fully set-up for the PvP game... it's not fun. Sure, you say you want to keep it 'accessible' for those without gear, but if that's the case, what's the point in gear? If you want to access PvP gear, run BGs, collect honour, and buy it. If getting people without PvP gear able to access PvP is the problem, make it easier to get starting PvP gear. Give daily quests that offer huge chunks of honour, such that a week's worth of questing will yield a complete set of honour gear. There has to be a breakpoint at which there is a distinct and tangible advantage and reward for those who take the PvP side seriously and work hard to gain the gear. Right now, a lot of classes are actually running with their PvE two-piece bonuses just because they're so powerful.
    A fix for this could be to add a damage increase against other players only to resilience, such that resilience is just too desirable to PvPers to justify losing the resilience on their PvE pieces.
    Another fix could be to add a multiplier to certain stats for each piece with resilience, similar to the gear specializations that are giving 5% primary stats. The multiplier would be more effective the more pieces are worn. For example (and these numbers are just for example's sake - the real numbers would have to be balanced by a better brain than mine) - First piece would receive no bonus. Second piece would increase total resilience by 1%. Third piece would increase total resilience by 3%. etc etc. The more pieces you get, the more valuable they become.
    And obviously, the last and easiest fix is just to ban PvE items from rated PvP. Easy, but kinda 'clunky' as far as explanation goes.


    What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?
    I liked the new BGs a lot more than the old ones. I like smaller BGs with actual objectives, rather than the huge five-million people-per-group ones where, no matter how good or how well you play, it's almost always going to come down to who has the most people doing 'the right thing' (which is too hard to coordinate with randoms as there are so many PvE heroes and Rambo wannabes who just 'do what they want lololo') and who has the most people in a given area.

    What Cataclysm Arena changes/additions did you like?
    I like the arena that has the pillars that rise and fall as the fight progresses. It adds a dynamic aspect to the map, and prevents bugs/abuses/'cheap tactics' from being employed, as nothing is permanent on the map, and you can often adapt your strategy based on when the terrain is most to your advantage.

    What Cataclysm General PVP changes/additions did you like?
    Tol Barad was a nice idea - I have a lot of fun there and the honour from so many kills is quite rewarding at the start of a new season, to get caught up with all of last season's Conquest stuff. The only issues with it are that defending is a lot easier than attacking, so, once a faction has control, it can be hard to wrest it from them (which wouldn't be an issue if it wasn't tied to raid access, but I think Wintergrasp's 'attacking is easier' approach was better, since it promoted a healthy turn around and made sure more people got to do their 'loot pinata' bosses each week).
    What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?
    AFKers, Griefers, and people refusing to follow the group strategy. Yes, the solution is RBGs so I can't really complain, but when I just want to get that 100 Conquest reward for my daily BG, to complement my week's Arena earnings, I don't want to be spending an hour and a half trying to get into that 'one lucky win'. Also, as others have mentions role and class balance when it comes to matching people up, is often an issue. When one team gets three healers and a prot-specced warrior on a flag carrier map, and the other team gets one undergeared resto druid, four hunters and three DKs... it's pretty clear who'll win.

    What are your top issues with Arenas in Cataclysm?
    1) Line of Sight. The theory behind it is alright, and it adds a nice twist sometimes, but Pillar Humping is where gets out of hand. Yes, I'm a hunter, and yes, I might sound like I'm QQing, but it just isn't fun when I spend the majority of an arena chasing a healer around a pillar, with my screen spammed with the LoS warning. DoT classes and classes with self-heals can use this too, and it's very frustrating having a feral druid Cyclone me, then sprint to the other end of the map and hide behind a pillar to spam heals whilst I just have to chase him in circles like a clown.

    PvP should not look like a cat chasing its own tail around a tree.

    WoW is supposed to have that whole fantasy, epic 'sword 'n' sandals' feel to it. Players stand and assault each other with powerful abilities and aid their comrades with healing spells and by coming to their defence. Now imagine the scene. Spartacus steps out into the arena, followed by Achilles and Conan the Barbarian. Across from them stands Hercules, Merlin, and Joan of Arc. This could be one for the ages, right? The fight begins, and very quickly, all six combatants rush to the nearest pillar or obstacle and begin a 10 minute game of tig-tag, chasing each other around like some kind of farce from a pantomime.

    The crowd would not be pleased, and neither am I.

    2)The stupid Dalaran sewers map. Seriously, as a hunter, I can do nothing. The other team just runs behind one pillar of boxes and proceeds to laugh at me. The water thing that falls is cool (albeit annoying when it screws me over) because it's another dynamic effect that can't really be exploited, but can add an interesting twist to a battle.

    3) Healing output vs damage output in later tiers. One of the most enjoyable times for me in PvP was at the start of the expansion, where I knew I could kill a healer if I focused him down and forced him to use expensive spells to stay alive. It was an exciting game of trying to maintain enough pressure, whilst also trying to avoid their teammate, who could attack me without fear for his own safety due to the support from his healer. If I played well, we could win - if I played poorly, their ability to recover damage would turn the tides.

    As things stand, I can't even kill a healer if he just stands there and lets me do a PvE rotation on him. I'm serious. My gear is strong (4747 resi) and I know how to output damage, but I tested against my friend (4k resi paladin healer) and we had to stand there for like five minutes whilst I unloaded constantly into him, until he finally ran out of mana. In an arena, with LoS, CCs and downtime, grouped with ridiculous mana pools and regen abilities... it just isn't possible.


    What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?
    Class imbalances. Yes, it's a well-trodden path, but for good reason. Getting rolled by the latest flavour of the month comp is not fun, especially when you can tell that the other team is really bad but they win anyway. What's fun about being on the receiving end of a smoke-bomb stun-lock kill from a rogue? Sure, there ARE ways out of them, but it can be difficult, and if you mess it up, I really don't think that it should just be the end of the match.
    What already announced Mists PVP changes/additions are you most looking forward to?
    No more sodding minimum range for hunter. getting the worst of both melee and caster worlds for centuries has been very frustrating. I also like the new talent tree designs. Less of those 'fake choices' that aren't really a choice at all (I mean, how much of a choice is Silencing Shot for a PvP hunter, really?) and less of those 'fillers' that you have to take just to get down to the next tier. A few choices that really make a difference will be far more fun. Knowing that my damage might be significantly lower than the opposing hunter's, but that my CCs will be more potent, or that I'll have an extra defensive CD... it'll totally change the way each game is approached and keep it fresh for some time.

    I also like the idea of changing Intellect to be purely a throughput stat, and Spirit to be purely a regen stat (for PvE purposes (my main is actually a PvE priest) as well as PvP). If a healer wants to have very potent and powerful heals, he may do, but it will come at the cost of reduced regen and less longevity. It will allow focus to shift back to a mix of pressuring the healers into spending excess mana to prevent burst deaths, and also maintaining consistent damage to force them into finding time to use cheaper, more powerful heals, to gain more efficiency.
    If a team runs with a healer, it should be a big deal for that team to try to protect their healer. They shouldn't be able to sit back in the knowledge that their healer has god-like healing powers and infinite resources.



    I'd like to thank the OP for making this thread - it's a nice way of consolidating concerns and feedback.
    I'd like to thank MMO-Champion for their Blue Tracker. Without it, I wouldn't have seen this thread.
    I'd like to thank those who take the time to read these thoughts and opinions.
    I'd like to thank the developers for making the game.
    01/28/2012 12:57 PMPosted by Eldacar
    What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? (Things that are an inconvenience but don't significantly affect game play or balance)


    The relative value of honor as your pvp equipment becomes better starts to taper off, and there are not BG/Arena only consumables like in the older days. I recall fondly being able to purchase up to level healing draughts and mana draughts for battleground use quite a long time ago, and dropping a few consumables was really quite enjoyable. This goes for the old standards, such as Sprint potions, Free Action Potions, etc. In general I feel like non-class specific cooldowns (in the form of consumables/professions) make battlegrounds and arena far more interesting and less predictable.

    01/28/2012 12:57 PMPosted by Eldacar
    What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?


  • The change to the graveyards to prevent Warsong flag carriers from camping in their graveyard was extremely welcome.
  • The addition of a meager, but still present amount of conquest points on the daily random queue was also welcome.

  • 01/28/2012 12:57 PMPosted by Eldacar
    What Cataclysm Arena changes/additions did you like?


    The initial idea that each win gave you a set % of that week's conquest points was extremely nice. Only having to play 5-7 games a week for rating as great, because of both time constraints and my lack of enthusiasm for beating on targets that are constantly healed to full.

    01/28/2012 12:57 PMPosted by Eldacar
    What Cataclysm General PVP changes/additions did you like?


  • Early on, healers being able to run out of mana fairly quickly was nice.
  • The addition of a separately colored pvp set for people with high ratings to "show off" was a great idea.
  • Random BGs being added was extremely nice, although sometimes I wish I could opt out of certain ones.

  • 01/28/2012 12:57 PMPosted by Eldacar
    What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?


  • Objectives tend to obscure the whole purpose of the battleground---to fight players. Objectives which require more direct fighting rather than clicking on terrain or avoiding combat with the exception of 'stopping the cap' would be welcome.
  • Serious imbalances arise when one team has too many healers; there is nothing less fun than fighting a team with 4 healers in Warsong, Arathi, Twin Peaks, or Gilneas. Too few healers is annoying but acceptable; too many healers just takes the fun out of the game, leading to long, stale battles where CC and burst damage are irrelevant because targets are virtually unkillable (but they still win because there's no need to kill anyone, all that needs to be done is holding the objective).

  • 01/28/2012 12:57 PMPosted by Eldacar
    What are your top issues with Arenas in Cataclysm?


  • The arena areas are stale and there are no significant interactions with terrain in most of them outside of line of sight.
  • Being attacked through walls by larger character models is still an issue (particularly tauren in Nagrand arena).
  • Resilience scaling as only a damage reducer and not also a damage enhancer increasingly makes arena games take longer and discourages offensive play in favor of defensive play (which I find boring and uninteresting).

  • 01/28/2012 12:58 PMPosted by Eldacar
    What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?

  • Resilience only scales damage down. If Resilience were entirely neutral to players who also had resilience (IE if it both increased damage done and taken) then the standard game balance would remain the same at all levels of resilience (for players who have it). As it is, defensive classes and healers become increasingly powerful as resilience continues to scale. This has happened every expansion since resilience has been available, leading to "unkillable" healers as the seasons draw on.
  • Lack of areas to engage other players in world pvp also strikes a nerve. There are too many places to flat out avoid combat and flying mounts prevent a great deal of random encounters.
  • The removal of most fun items/profession related perks in battlegrounds, tol barad, and arena killed a lot of my interest in organized pvp. I enjoy using consumables related to various professions, from alchemist items to engineering items. These add different layers of skill and decision making, whereas fully removing them takes away that choice to go the extra mile.
  • The lack of tension between the horde and the alliance has been disappointing as well. This was supposed to be the boiling over point, but nothing happened. Very disappointing, both in story and actual gameplay.
  • I think these forums have had enough constructive and articulate feed about pvp for all of cataclysm. barely anything has changed. Take resto druid for example. People have been putting together great, descriptive, posts about what exactly is wrong with them since 4.06. I never seen a blue comment once about them. 20% reduction in wild growth is what they get.

    And remember this thread? http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2973257189 (Good evening pvp enthusiasts).

    That topic was started by a blue. So much great input was given within those 76 pages and NOTHING came out of it. Wind Shear "nerf" you say? that was already on the block.

    This has been battered into my head so much, I believe it now. This is a pve game. changing pvp at the cost of hindering pve will result in no changes.

    Sorry i just have no hope in the team in charge of pvp, or class balance, to make any improvements to pvp. The general consensus is the game gets worse and worse with each expansion.
    I hate the way the moment you step into a PvP situation the server bans you from ever PvEing for gear again. It makes PvP too unbalanced for people that have PvEd.
    I hear that Eldacow was carried in RBGS. Confirm/Deny/Death-threat?
    What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? The Balance between crowd control and burst. In Cataclysm you promised things would slow down, but it just became much much worst. Not only is there burst that far surpasses Wrath's but there's things like smokebomb which makes large chunks of damage and possible deaths unavoidable. Crowd control is absolutely moronic at the moment, Fear and Polymorph not sharing a DR...instant damage and cc which is unavoidable. (Cyclones, FB stun). In WOTLK caster cleeves were top dogs, but you could atleast tell when the burst was coming....RLS is unpredictable.

    What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?
    I really enjoy Battle of Gilneas, good implementation.

    What Cataclysm Arena changes/additions did you like?
    It's been terrible all expansion, that's my honest opinion.

    What Cataclysm General PVP changes/additions did you like?
    The removal of bloodlust from arenas.

    What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?
    Overpowered classes. Frost Mages, Blood Dk's, Geared Sub Rogues, Holy Paladins. This is from a warriors perspective ofcourse. You shouldn't have to avoid a class because you stand no chance, you should avoid it because you have a chance of winning but the chances are less then what you would like.

    What are your top issues with Arenas in Cataclysm?
    Too much burst, too much cc. There's a difference between fastpaced and instantaneously paced.

    What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?
    The worst part I think is a newly leveled toon has 100k health and decently geared toons have 140k+ health....this is not fair what so ever for toons with terrible gear trying to farm for themselves. Even worst, the feeling of being ignored the entire expansion. Not sure how the rest of the pvp community feels, but thats how I feel.
    I used to play a resto druid for rated bgs. My group has me going moonkin instead.

    What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues?
    Survivability. There is a reason in rated everyone says moonkin or resto druid first. They are easy to bring down.

    What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?
    I don't mind the current environment for rated bgs. The size is good for quick pops.

    What Cataclysm General PVP changes/additions did you like?
    For moonkin the mushrooms were a nice addition. However I find the targeting a denoting as clunky. Rarely am I able to get the mushroom down in time or a manner for them to help me kite a melee if I already have the melee on me. The solar beam/root combo is nice to remove a healer for a bit.

    For resto, tree form made restos able to provide some burst throughput. I do miss the strong bloom from LB. I always felt a well timed LB was awesome. I don't have any healing that can provided a 72k heal like my shaman can do when mastery kicks in.

    What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?
    Discussed above.
    01/30/2012 05:13 AMPosted by Relentlèss
    I think these forums have had enough constructive and articulate feed about pvp for all of cataclysm. barely anything has changed. Take resto druid for example. People have been putting together great, descriptive, posts about what exactly is wrong with them since 4.06. I never seen a blue comment once about them. 20% reduction in wild growth is what they get.


    I am fairly sure the only reason a blue posted in this was because it came from an MVP. People can post suggestions until they are blue in the face and Blizzard will never respond or care.

    I am very tired of it, especially the lack of responses with the pvp in general and that resto druid thread. "We'll fix it in MoP" is totally and utterly inexcusable. I am a fraction of a second off from cancelling my account and maybe resub'ing with MoP. I am just waiting until the v-day event so I can get my lovebird. <3
    ... The idea of something like the old tarren mill vs southshore battles returning is really something worth looking forward to.


    The pathetic saga of level 80s rushing to South Shore to beat-up on level 20 noobs is not something we need to repeat. That was one of the few examples of PvP that was more ridiculous than the STV ganking of level 35 toons by level 80 try-hards.
    I would love to see a system implemented for PVP which mimics the new challenge mode for heroic dungeons.

    A normalized ilevel/gear set for participants of the challenge mode would make PVP balance outrageously easier to accomplish and maintain. The rewards could simply be cosmetic/non-combat in nature.

    And the matches would just be super fun, darn it.
    To me, now that I'm playing a rogue that gets blasted to hell by casters/ranged. I would love love it, if you would actually make all environment objects LoS casters and ranged attacks.

    I'm not talking about bushes and stuff like that. But if I'm behind a big wooden pillar there is no reason a hunter or mage or lock (or lock's pet) should still be able to hit me.

    A good example is the tree stumps/big wooden posts (on the buidling and those things in the back)/saw blade at LM in AB. Likewise, the entire building at BS in AB. If I run in there I still get hit by casts/ranged attacks. To me it's just silly.

    A hunter's range is crazy too.

    To me, toning down the CC, upping res and lowering the damage/healing would make battles more strategic. Being able to strafe certain ranged spells/attacks and dot's losing their potency at range would be nice too.

    I like PvP overall, I have a fair ratio of wins/losses. But damage and heals at <50 brackets should be toned way down.

    That's all.

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