Cataclysm PVP Feedback

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I was reading this thread about resetting cooldowns on the EU forums:

I've long had a strong distaste for cooldown resetting in PVP and I'll tell you why. In PVP, knowing when and where to use your cooldowns is important. However as a class with a cooldown reset, you can make mistakes that other classes can't and recover. It has always felt to me, regardless of the current pvp power level of these classes, that cooldown resets should not exist in pvp.

I have to agree with this poster. Having cooldown resets, as it gives these classes the opportunity to run into a match blowing cooldowns left and right, armed with the knowledge that as soon as they NEED on of them a second time, they get all of them back.

I think it might be more balanced if these cooldown resets applied to a much more limited scope of abilities or if those abilities were less powerful. But as it is, I just think it gives those class the advantage of being able to use cooldowns to force enemy cooldowns, only to use them again when the enemy has nothing to match them with.
Quick Version:

•Expansion focuses on Horde vs Alliance conflict (what exactly this means for PVP in the long run is uncertain).

*** I hope this means World PvP with tangible objectives and increase in the "spirit of competition" within and indivdual server. Realm/faction pride ftw.

•Three new POTENTIAL battlegrounds based on game types that are new to WoW. (They may not all make it in at launch or at all)

*** Excited to see the DOTA style battleground most of all. Has the potential to be transformative in the 3v3 and 5v5 style gamescale.

•STV Diamond Mine (Payload Style)

*** I really like how this was done in Rift

•Valley of Power (Murderball Style)

*** If this is like "huttball", please keep the "attention sports fans" crap to a minimum. there's a reason I play a fantasy MMO and NOT want sports crap on sundays.

•Azshara Crater (DOTA Style)

*** ding ding!!! This is what I really most look forward to.

•One new arena map, Tol'vir Proving Grounds which is based on Nagrand Arena.

*** Meh... get rid of arenas as far as I'm concerned.

•Renewed focus on NATURAL world PVP (No Tol Barad/Wintergrasp type zone).

*** Nice, that's I want too.

•Resilience made a baseline stat (but still included on PVP gear).

*** I am seeing conflicting message about the pvp / pve gear thing and I wish they would clarify it. I am worried it will be HEROIC RAIDER > all - all over again.

•Revised talent system (not PVP specific but will have a large impact).

*** I like the new system but the new talents seem pre uninspiring. This is an opportunity for them to "go big" but I feel they are rehashing too much and giving us some pretty weaksauce talents. Fervor for hunters? Again? really? That's compelling? Yuck.

Interrupts and Instant Crowd Control Used as Interrupts

My biggest concern is the inability of classes with mana to cast much in arena. This stems from the huge arms race of instant casts and instant cc that has been happening since the beginning of WOW. I'm going to use a few exaggerated examples to show what I mean. Many physical dps classes have multiple ways to stop a caster from getting a cast off. When you put two of these classes on a caster, they can not get any casts off without peels. With all of the dispel spamming going on, it can be hard for some comps to keep two people off one of their casters. CCs should be for CCs and not as extra interrupts.

Rogues (I do feel that rogue utility is part of what makes a rogue a rogue, however some of this is over the top)

Alternating kick and gouge to be able to interrupt a caster is incredibly annoying. Their damage output is reduced doing this but it is incredibly frustrating to the caster. Garrote silence, blind, vanish, cloak, cheap shot, kidney shot, you get the point.

Death Knights (Perhaps causing their cooldowns to not make them immune to a multitude of cc would fix this)

If you fake cast a mind freeze this is usually what happens. AMS, Lichborne, Strangulate, Gnaw(if unholy), or Deathgrip. It is not uncommon for a Death Knight to roll these cooldowns while tunneling a caster while the caster is completely helpless and the caster's team mates can not cc due to these immunities or the cc is immediately dispelled.

Feral Druids

A feral druid does not have the same stopping power that some of the other physical dps classes have. They skull bash, maim, bear bash, and instant cyclone. Other than the issues that people have with instant cyclone, this is actually one of the more balanced melee classes.

Retribution Paladins

Ret Paladins have rebuke, hoj, and repentance. Consequently this class has very high cooldown damage and incredibly offhealing capability.

Warriors, Arms and Protection

The distinction between fury/arms warriors and protection warriors is important. A dps warrior (almost always arms) has charge, intercept, pummel, spell reflect, throwdown and potentially a silence on heroic throw. Intimidating shout can also be used as an interrupt although it rarely is. A protection warrior does not have throwdown but has the heroic throw silence, concussive blow, and shockwave in addition to the rest. This is way too much.

Enhancement Shamans

Enhancement shamans have wind shear, grounding totem, their wolves stun, and instant hex. Hex is rarely used as an interrupt but when the others get mixed in with wind shear it becomes difficult for a caster to cast at all.


The effect to which a hunter can stop a caster is not as powerful as most of the others but worth mentioning due their all instant cc. Silencing shot, scatter shot, monkey stun, and feign death are all commonly used as interrupts. Deterrence can also be used to stop a cc but rarely is. They can also have wyvern sting, or intimidation depending on their spec.

Overall, when you combine all of this with the cc/root breaks and mobility that many of these classes have with spammable dispels, you get a very high up time on every casting class except a mage. Mages have enough utility to escape and kite but other classes do not have this luxury.

Instant Spammable CC Used as CC

It is not uncommon for a team to take an incredibly amount of burst damage and have a healer use a trinket on some CC in order to heal. What isn't ok is that this now opens them up to a complete instant cc chain against some teams. I'm talking about things like scatter shot into frost trap into monkey stun into priest fear. A lot of times this results in a kill and becomes frustrating because their is nothing the opposing team can do about it. If this kind of CC is left in the game, all of it needs to have diminishing returns.

Dps Offhealing

Good Offhealing - Victory Rush, Glyphed Evocate, Enh using maelstrom for instant healing, Feral using an instant heal after a finisher, long cooldown heals such as feral rejuv and enraged regen.

Bad Offhealing - Abilities like Word of Glory and Recuperate

Cooldown Resetting Abilities

I commonly see cooldown resetting abilities used to spam damage into a target until it dies. They should reset defensive cooldowns only.

Multi-Effect Abilities

Necrotic Strike - Does mediocre damage, absorbs healing, causes casting slow and puts down desecration with the talent. This is too much for one ability from one global cooldown to do. It's also a very unique ability that stacks with other abilities such as mortal strike and wound poison. No ability should have this many effects baked into it.

I could go on and on but I think this is enough for now.
What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? (Things that are an inconvenience but don't significantly affect game play or balance)

Well, for me it has to be spec viability. I love it when every spec of every class is atleast viable. In Wrath, combat was my #1 spec to play as, I just loved it. Cataclysm hits, and every single rogue is "pigeon-holed" into a single spec for the entire expansion. I'd like to see other specs be viable.

What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?

I liked the time limit on WSG, and that the demolishers can now be snared in SotA.

What Cataclysm Arena changes/additions did you like?

Ease of weekly capping of arena points.

What Cataclysm General PVP changes/additions did you like?

It's easier to gear up a toon for PvP. Used to take forever. But it still takes a tad too long, especially a really fresh 85.

What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?

Probably healer displacement. When you're in a battleground, your team has 0 healers, and the opposing 4, it's an almost guaranteed loss. Sort of disheartening.

What are your top issues with Arenas in Cataclysm?

Certain arenas just outright favor certain classes. Ring of Valor for example, with the raised platforms can seriously help out a caster.

What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?

Certain classes are far too powerful, and some far too weak. Classes like Frost Mages, Sub Rogues(yes, I admit it) have way too much control and damage. Whereas an enhancement shaman lacks a lot of both.

What already announced Mists PVP changes/additions are you most looking forward to? (here is a summary of what is coming: )

New battlegrounds. Oh, and resilience everywhere!
Oh, another point I forgot to add : I don't like how instant-cast spells are so predominant.

Because there is so much CC, silences and interrupts, we only have a short window to actually hard-cast anything. Usually no more than 2 sec. Let's take an example : I am a healer and I have a rogue + a prot warrior on me. This is how often I will get interrupted or silenced :

Kick - interrupt - 4 sec every 10 sec
Gouge - incapacitate - 4 sec every 10 sec
Kidney Shot - stun - 6 sec every 20 sec
Pummel - interrupt - 4 sec every 10 sec
Charge - stun - 1 sec every 15 sec
Shockwave - stun - 4 sec every 17 sec
Concussion - stun - 5 sec every 30 sec

That's 120 sec of cc every minute of play ! Of course, there are diminishing returns between all of them. But still ! It means that in the first seconds of the fight, I can actually be silenced full time if they play correctly and I can't juke.

So because of that, the only safe way to cast a spell is instant-cast. And this is bad for the game because then, dps who don't use their CC to the fullest think that healers are invincible. Whereas we're just used to staying alive by not casting, juking, los-ing, and running behind objects.

Adding more conquest points to random bgs

Lack of variety of pvp gear.
PvE gear in PvP
No direct income from PvP
Healers never going oom, running around spamming instant heals for 40+%
Dps being able to burst someone from 100% to 20% in 4 sec, that should take at least double the amount of time.
Zerg bg's (Isle of Conquest and AV)
Strand of the ancients.


It has been said numerous times in this thread, add a gold reward to completed Bgs, RBgs and Arenas.
Increase CQ gained in random bg's as well. Do something to the tune of LFD where you can cap or nearly cap your CQ like your VP by doing random bg's 7 times a week instead of once per day.
Make healing be affected by reslience as well (the MS rebuff was a good start)
Perhaps adding more tiers of pvp gear? For example, you have your honour gear, honour teir two, conquest gear, conquest tier 2, then a batch of items or item enhancements that add procs or different effects to your gear? Pretty weak example but it's just a basic concept.
I would love an ability to queue for Rated BGs as a group of 5 and be matched with other teams of 5 to make the final 10.

I agree that single random queuing for Rated BGs essentially just makes them regular BGs. But it's so much easier to find a group of 5 keen PvPers on a PvE server than it is to field a regular team of ten. If we combined 2 teams there would hopefully still be enough sense of teamwork to differentiate from the more selfishly motivated Randoms.
What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? (Things that are an inconvenience but don't significantly affect game play or balance)

Daily rewards. With 4.3, rewards became a lot better instead of the 25 Conquest Points per win, a win now rewards you with 100 and each win after that an additional 50 but it's still not on par with PVE content. You can cap Valor by doing 7 heroics anytime during the week. You can't cap Conquest by doing 7 battlegrounds anytime during the week. You need at least 10 wins (more if you don't log on every day to get your win, and you can double that number if you win half of your games). On a bad week you could very well have to do 50 BGs to cap. Way too much of a grind compared to PVE.

What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?

Wasn't much into PVP before Cataclysm, but I love the 2 new BGs. By far my favorites out of all of the BGs.

What Cataclysm Arena changes/additions did you like?

N/A, I don't Arena.

What Cataclysm General PVP changes/additions did you like?

Being able to convert PVE points into PVP and vice versa. As a PVE-only player in the past, stepping into even a BG with no PVP gear was daunting. Now I can simply build up a PVP set if I find myself with Justice/Valor points that I'm not using.

What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?

40 man BGs. They are just a mess. Impossible to coordinate, and don't feel like PVP at all. People start random fights in a corner of the map while paying no attention to the objectives.

What are your top issues with Arenas in Cataclysm?

N/A, I don't Arena.

What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?
The larger health pools were supposed to fix going from 100 to 0 in 2 sec (this applies to PVE as well) but that's just not the case. It may have been true at the beginning of the expansion but with the gear/ilvl getting in the 400s and health pools not increasing that much with gear, we are back to the WotLK model.

Interrupts, CCs & Stuns. Way too many right now, or I should say way too often. Some specs have all of those on relatively short cooldowns. It's just not fun having to dread hard casting a spell or having to fake cast half of your spells or every worse being chain-CC'd for 15+ sec.

What already announced Mists PVP changes/additions are you most looking forward to? (here is a summary of what is coming: )

The 3 new BGs sound good on paper, especially being new game types and not just CTF on a different map. But the biggest thing I'm looking forward to is the new talent system. The utility talents, playing with their synergies, being able to pick and choose regardless of your spec sounds amazing. Hopefully this will get rid of the cookie cutter builds and add an element of surprise when facing an enemy (you'll play differently vs a that priest spec'd into psychic scream than one with void tendrils).
The case against the middle healing spell in PvP :

I don't like how the Devs want to force the 3-heals PvE system in PvP, where it just doesn't fit. As described below, there is no place for a long-casting, low-healing spell in PvP. Because healing someone for 10k hps is just not worth exposing oneself during 2.5 sec hard-casting in the open. During that time we can (will) be interrupted, school-locked and then feared or cced.

So I see people stating how they wished healers' mana mattered more, and how healers don't go oom anymore nowadays. That's fine, but please don't blindly raise the cost of fast-casting spells and require us to use the middle healing spell (slow-casting, low-healing). Because we just can't do that.

There's a reason Flash of Light, WoG and Holy Shock are the go-to spells in PvP. It's because two of them are instant, and the third is either very fast casting, or can be instant with a process. That's how PvP works, because that's the windows of opportunity we have to cast spells between CC.
Biggest issue with PVP.

1. Gear imbalance. PVE vs. PVP gear.
2. Queue system imbalance. 4 healers on one side none on the other.
3. Healing. Healers should be killable.
4. Mana. Regen rates are such that it is not even a factor anymore in PVP.
What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? (Things that are an inconvenience but don't significantly affect game play or balance)

Not having any way of paying for what you're doing like I do in PvE. It's much easier to make gold and actually keep paying for any enchants and materials I may need (Which are outrageous on my server as it is IE : 300-400g per blue gem) when I do heroics.

What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?

I liked that they recently made the conquest amount you get higher, as it allows those of us who don't really Arena/RBG a lot to at least get most of our points from BGs and only have to do a few games to cap out for the week.

What Cataclysm Arena changes/additions did you like?

I liked that they were willing to remove an arena map if it was buggy or broken in some way. It made it a little less frustrating to do arenas as certain classes that don't do very well in them when their mechanics worked the whole match. Making Arena sets not be Rating Gated (Save T2 weapons) was a huge plus for me too. It makes it a fair match between people when everyone can get the gear albeit at a slower rate.

What Cataclysm General PVP changes/additions did you like?

More Maps and slightly different takes on older ones was a huge plus for me. I really enjoyed the new maps even with their problems, and I liked that they weren't just perfect mirrors but weren't completely unbalanced because of it.

What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?

The amount of CC and burst in PvP right now is a big issue in my mind. Taking away a lot of self healing from people yet buffing others self healing that never needed it before caused some huge balancing issues. The amount of CC needs to be dropped as well, there is just way to much of it being thrown around on much too short of a CD. The game it a lot more fun to me when I'm able to actually use my skill with my character to it's advantage. When I spend half the game CCed off in a corner somewhere not playing I may as well be botting.

What are your top issues with Arenas in Cataclysm?

Mostly the same as BGs, certain specs surviving way to long when their healer is CCed is also another issue. I would much prefer classes and specs last longer because there is less burst, than last longer because their defensive CDs are so much better than their opposition.

What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?

The amount of time it takes to gear up for PvE compared to PvP is rather drastic at this point. It takes so much more time and effort to get PvP gear than it does to get PvE since you can queue with some friends and just speed through the Heroics.

What already announced Mists PVP changes/additions are you most looking forward to?

I can't wait to see how the talent tree changes will affect certain specs/classes. I'm also really looking forward to the new style they are going for in BGs where you're required to actually *Gasp!* PvP to get to the objective. I've always disliked maps that require you just kill some PvE stuff while you ignore the other team and try to race them. Looking at you AV/Strand/Isle.
The PvP trinket is an uninteresting piece of gear. Everyone who PvPs MUST wear one - except humans because of their racial. So there is absolutely no diversity. It's just a gear slot that HAS to be used for the PvP trinket.

I think it's bad for the game, because it actually blocks one slot, and doesn't promote diversity. I think it would be best to give this ability - remove all CCs - to all players as a baseline ability, and then allow us to actually use this trinket slot to customize our character.
The biggest problem with PvP in Cataclysm has been how heavily RNG based it has been.

In Starcraft 2, each unit does a set amount of damage, has a set armor value, firing rate, cost, build time etc. There is absolutely NO RNG. When there is no RNG is comes down to pure strategy and skill, what is needed to counter the other players forces, then whats needed to counter the counter.

I know for an RPG eliminating RNG, at least for PvP, would be hard but it needs to be cut down as much as possible.
Items like the Vial of Shadows, the rogues legendary daggers and the absurdly high crits and number of stuns some classes have.

PvP should not be based around luck.
01/30/2012 01:22 PMPosted by Grøve
In my mind the #1 biggest thing that ruins world pvp in the game atm is Guards, i was in the storm peaks and about 40 yards from K3 i attack a druid of the same level going for the lunar elder. What i got was a K3 bruiser who hit me for 174k non crit and insta death. Does anyone else see the problem with that?

Yes, the guards have definitely put a huge damper on doing any world pvp and requiring huge groups to even think about going into Ogrimmar anymore is not fun. Flying has also hurt world pvp but if places were more attackable maybe we'd see more enemy incursions in our main cities.

I know they are trying to encourage world pvp on the mists island and I hope it's more like city battle than some Silithus grab the junk and run it around or capture the tower thing. While I don't like griefing, I do enjoy feeling like I'm conquering the enemy's town - killing their griffon master so they can't fly in and basically controlling the area however briefly until we get repelled. I want to feel like what I do matters and is directly impacting the enemy rather than a zone resources mini-game.

I love world pvp and would do it regardless when I get that urge but I wonder if we couldn't also get some currency from taking and holding objectives to maybe stir more interest? If I can get conquest and honor from doing random bgs, maybe I could spice things up by taking out the horde's bread vendor in their town of Mistnoobia and earn a couple CP from disrupting their food supply? I think having fixed dailies and pvp quests like in Northrend kills the feeling of spontaneity but if we could get more fluid rewards based on enemies killed or NPCs neutralized or time spent in control that could provide added incentive, let us earn some currency, but keep it from feeling forced into certain avenues because a quest told us to do this. I don't want to hand in anything or be told how to do my world pvp or require 50 enemy horde players to happen into the area so i can knock off that kill quest.

I also tried dabbling in rated battle grounds with fellow guildies who are also pretty inept at pvp in general and that was a total disaster. There needs to be like a noob league or something where we can learn how to work together as a team before being tossed to the wolves and immediately shredded. That experience was not fun and it scared people away from trying. We didn't seem to get any opponents who also sucked which was a surprise since in random bgs we can wind up paired against a premade that crushes us. I'm not sure how we could improve as a group when the fights are over before we even get started.

I also noted that to be successful at this you need certain classes - flag runner, stealther, etc, which adds to the burden of a bunch of casuals trying to succeed at this in any way. Right now random battlegrounds are more fun because you have a better shot at winning than at rated battlegrounds.

I don't think the resilience change planned for MoP will help with noob groups trying to break into rateds. I think this is more a matchmaking issue. I'm not sure any of this can be fixed but I present the woes of a noob group who tried and failed to get interested in rated bgs in case something can be done to make it less painful to get started.

For random battlegrounds I'd love to have a feature to opt out of a couple of the maps. Or even better, have categories of maps to opt out on like capture the flag.

Other stuff was mentioned in the OP - great post btw.
•What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? (Things that are an inconvenience but don't significantly affect game play or balance)

Carrying all that water to help keep my mana at reasonably high to full state.

•What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?

-The timer

-Having multiple environments for same style of BG

•What Cataclysm Arena changes/additions did you like?

•What Cataclysm General PVP changes/additions did you like?

-Being able to buy trade goods (herbs,cloth,etc) with honor.

-Being able to convert honor to justice, conquest to valor and vice-versa.

-Resilience only doing a flat damage reduction instead of effecting critical chance among other things.

-Being able to get to conquest weekly cap with random battlegrounds.

•What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?

-Strand of the ancient. the demos should have not been changed to what it is today. fast but snare/slow-able demos create a "side with the most slows and snares wins" sort of game play. The demos only in this battle ground should be reverted back to what the original demos were, purely do to the size of strand vs. every other area that demos are used.

-Killing a "General" for a battleground objective doesn't do much for the "pvp" aspect of a battleground.

•What are your top issues with Arenas in Cataclysm?

Nagrand Arena stage, the overall amount of space the 4 pillars take seem to (at least to me) end up taking much more room in the stage itself then obstacles in any other arena stage, i think either increasing the distance or shrinking the diameter of the pillars would make it more workable.

•What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?

-Powerful guards

-Guards being able to shoot people through line of sight.

-Lack of pvp inducing quests, like the Grizzly hills dailies.

•What already announced Mists PVP changes/additions are you most looking forward to?

-Massive overhaul on class talent trees

-Less devastatingly powerful guards(it's not in your summery post but i remember reading it in a blue post)

-Battlegrounds with new game play.
What I liked:

Creation of rated battlegrounds (despite the hiccups in the system)
Expansion of class defining abilities across different classes
Removal of lust/hero from arena
New battlegrounds (Twin Peaks is much better than Battle for the Waterworks, however)

What I disliked:

45 minute timer on 2's (should be like 30, tops, or toss the bracket all together)
Too many games required to cap with a high point cap
Absolute mind boggling damage - I was looking forward to the "slower" pvp
Existence of broken PVE gear in PVP environments
Too many interrupts
Inequity in defenses
Nerfing of hybrid heals while rogues walk around with recoup
Lack of a reason to go outside Org
What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?
What Cataclysm Arena changes/additions did you like?

I love the idea of getting gold from PvP. Here is a little idea (that even works Lore-wise). Ten Horde battle ten Alliance in Warsong Gulch (Or 40 vs. 40 in AV) . The Horde lose (because I'm an Ally and it's my story), so each of the Horde leaves behind a "Recovered Horde Backpack" that contains gold, a number of "Insigna of the Horde" (for crafters to use to make PvP gear), and a chance (low as it should be) to loot BoE PvP gear that can be used or sold on the Auction House, and a chance at random mats (ore, herbs, gems). The fact of dungeon and raid runners get random drops of gear needs to be balanced with primarily PvP players. Even Arena players would get the recovered backpack for winning.

These "Recovered Horde (or Alliance) Backpacks" would be prizes won and put into our personal backpacks like the tank or healer's bonus satchel or various packs awarded killing holiday bosses to be opened after zoning out of the BG. If Blizz wants to limit you to one (or five) a day, or something, I could live with it.

It would surely bee a nice addition if blizz could bridge the gap between pvp and pve where loot or gold is concern.
Idea 1) Which ever team wins a BG, roll on a list of PvP Green or Blue type weapons/trinket/armor etc, just as an incentive to want to actually win the BG.. Gold been split evenly.

Burning Issues..
Other posters have pretty much covered it.. Also since PvP seems to been a big part of Mists, i hope we get fixes just as fast as PvE stuff get fixed.
What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? (Things that are an inconvenience but don't significantly affect game play or balance)

To me, arenas are just no longer enjoyable. Is this because I play a warrior and they feel extremely undertuned? possibly, is this because RBG's are more enjoyable? Definitely

What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?

RBGSX1000 In my opinion RBG's are definitely the greatest addition to pvp this game has seen in a long long. They require strategy, they promote teamwork, and most importantly they are FUN!

What Cataclysm Arena changes/additions did you like?

Teams where you can get absolutely globaled died off (beastcleave lolol). Now its just turned into OMG sheepfearsilencestunsheepfeargougekicksilencestun. Kill someone.

What Cataclysm General PVP changes/additions did you like?

Being able to get your top tier pvp gear by doing anything.

What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?

Honestly I feel like BG's are in a good place at the moment, the only thing I could suggest is coming up with a way to make the honor grind LESS grindy.

What are your top issues with Arenas in Cataclysm?

Every class has a ton of cc abilities, most classes have at least 1 silence, most classes have a mortal strike ability.

What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?

Legendaries. Both the staff, and now the daggers are ridiculous as far as pvp is concerned. I understand that when you get a legendary it should mean something, there should be a obvious difference from using say Fangs of the Father and using some other random same tier weapons. But the amount of damage they can do in pvp is absurd and this needs to be changed. As a side note, not really related to pvp, these weapons are WAY too easy to obtain now, compare the amount of people that will have Fangs to the amount of people that had Glaives, compare the people with tarecgosa with the people that had atiesh, people that had shadowmourne over the people that had Sulfuras. I'm not saying we should go back to the RNG system, but people can go PUG a legendary staff, there are so many legendary weapons now, can you honestly say a legendary is still "legendary"?

My other issue with cata pvp is the 2200 Elite gear. People work their butts off to try and reach 2200, yes we get a cool weapon but we also get some super awesome gear with the exact same stats and a slightly different color. People who reach 2200 should be rewarded with better gear, even if its just a SLIGHT upgrade I.E ilvl 403 gear to ilvl 407 gear.

What already announced Mists PVP changes/additions are you most looking forward to? (here is a summary of what is coming: )

Definitely the addition of new BG's and new arena maps.

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