Cataclysm PVP Feedback

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01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?

For me, kind of paranoia that the other team will be decked out in full t2 while my team is nothing but greens or blue vic gear. Sometimes I wish random match up system could see how much resilience you have so that I am put with other low resilience players. Being undergeared (or under-resilient if you will) makes me feel like I am dragging my team down.
•What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? (Things that are an inconvenience but don't significantly affect game play or balance)

Fiding partners on my server, not much blizzard can really do about that though lol

•What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?


•What Cataclysm Arena changes/additions did you like?

Changing the spawn point in RoV to opposite sides as opposed to right next to each other

•What Cataclysm General PVP changes/additions did you like?

the addition of enchanting mats that were purchasable with honor

•What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?


•What are your top issues with Arenas in Cataclysm?


•What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?

That classes that were obviously Overpowered or Underpowered remained so for the entire expansion with little/no changes made.

•What already announced Mists PVP changes/additions are you most looking forward to? (here is a summary of what is coming: )

Hopefully some balance fixes so resto druids don't die 5 seconds into every match

I'm a new player as of Cata, so I can't really comment on what it was like before. Just my perception of how it is now.

What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? (Things that are an inconvenience but don't significantly affect game play or balance)

Preparation and Timers. I try to get into the arena as quickly as possible to cast Fear Ward, so that it will be up faster than another priest's. There's a few other things like this, things that have short durations, that really should start when the gates open to make it a bit more fair.

Also, I'd like to see a Surrender Option. If I'm healing and there's a DPS and a Healer left in a 2v2 Arena, I'd rather surrender than leave or wait to die. This way I can see the battleground recap panel. Part of 2v2s is just chaining them to grind points, so I'd rather just end quickly. And in some 2v2s that looks like it's going to be 45 minutes long, it would be easier to surrender than leave.

One last thing, and this is for all the Disc Priests out there. COUNT ABSORBS IN HEALING. Sorry for the shouting, but it's annoying to have to explain that I'm not a lame healer, it's that the recap is not showing my true potential.

What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?

I've learned that Rated Battlegrounds are new to Cata. I love the Wargames and Rated Battlegrounds. They're AMAZING. If it wasn't for them, then I wouldn't have gotten involved in PvP other than casually. I'd love to see other battlegrounds expanded to a 10v10 RBG setting.

What Cataclysm General PVP changes/additions did you like?

Conversion from Valor to Conquest, was that a Cata thing? I did like that to help me when I had extra Valor.

What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm? / What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?

I love my Prot Paladin. I'll still go to Tol Barad with PvE gear and harass enemy healers. I feel my Divine Guardian every 2 minutes can really help. But the Prot Paladin has become the biggest joke of PvP, and I've forced myself to grind out a full Holy PvP set. Vengeance in PvP has been an issue largely with Blood DKs. But it's the Prot Paladin who has suffered the most.

The other issue I have is concerning Achievements. I know some of them are really difficult, but as a healer some of them seem impossible to achieve. I know Capture and Return flags for Twin Peaks seems doable, but generally I'm not anywhere near the flag carrier to return it - I'm healing at a distance. I imagine ranged DPS might have a similar issue.

--Also, when I pick up the Flag, or when someone squishy does to try and get the achievement, there's usually a lot of nasty comments about it on the bg channel. I feel bad when I try for one.

What already announced Mists PVP changes/additions are you most looking forward to? (here is a summary of what is coming: )

I'm glad they've looked at some other guys and created bgs that are similar. I'm really glad there's no more driving vehicles, but I'm worried Carts may be similiar. The goblin theme is going to be awesome at the very least.

I hope the new BGs can be RBGs.

Edit, to add a wish-list topic: add a LFR for random bgs. On my server (alliance Sargeras), its not unusual to see trade chat: LFM Low MMR RBGS, 1500+. Seriously, 1500+ is low rated? And on other servers they cant get enough for even onerbg group. Keep the same scoring system, so you're likely to fall in ratings compared to a guild premade, but give people the option please.

I'd love something like this too. In my vision I'd be happier if there was a queue based on Resilience. It would queue for RBG battleground maps, require a minimum resilience to enter, and put together a team of 10 (1 Tank, 3 Healers, 6 DPS) and try to mix classes as best as possible. It would award a once per day of 150 Conquest for a win and honor. It would not be rated, so you won't have to worry about rating adjustments.

This was it's a good stepping stone towards RBGs. It means you have a certain level of Resilience, and you're starting to learn the RBG maps. You may have a longer queue, but I'd be more than willing to wait for that than run around the randomness of a random battleground of mixed skill and gear.
What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues?

As a Shadow Priest, having to cast Fort, Shadow protection, Inner Fire, Vampiric Embrace, and then Shadowform, before effectively entering combat after being rezzed at a graveyard in a BG.

What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm? And what Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?

I don't like starting a BG and seeing the opposite faction has more or less healers then we do, or starting a BG and not having any healers on our side. I would really like addition of system similar to Dungeon Finder where for 10v10, always queue with 7 dps, 3 healers, as an example. I also like to see a 40v40 AB style game someday. And I would like see Wintergrasp and soon to be outdated Tol Barad somehow transformed into a BG 40v40 style to be added to the BGs we have, when queuing for randoms.

I liked the addition of rated BGs even though I haven't played many.

What are your top issues with Arenas in Cataclysm? And what Cataclysm Arena changes/additions did you like?

Any and all utility spells that have no cooldown, for example, Mana Burn, Polymorph, Fear, really give those classes a significant edge in Arena. And those classes are generally favored over others primarily for that reason. I would like to see either removal of some and or add a cooldown to those abilities while in arena.

I seriously like the removal of gear tied to rating. In Wrath, I would go weeks and weeks without getting an upgrade in pvp gear all because our team couldn't lift our rating.

What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm? And what Cataclysm General PVP changes/additions did you like?

I feel melee are bit over the top with 10 second school lockout interrupt. As a shadow priest, I liked the addition of Mind Spike for that very reason, but that spell itself wasn't answer to that problem until later patch, and even today, when an interrupt last 5 to 6 seconds, and reapplied 5 to 4 seconds after that, is a bit much, and frustrating to deal with. It becomes nearly unbearable when 2 or more melee are focused on interrupting you. I would like see interrupts revamped to work differently, like maybe only locking that one single spell out from being casted again for X seconds, and not the whole school.

I liked increase in health from the Wrath to Cata, to slow down PvP.

What already announced Mists PVP changes/additions are you most looking forward to?

As a priest, most looking forward to the new 87 spell, it might give me the answer I need to help survive against rogues and other classes who have me totally locked down.

  • What do you not what to see in Mist's PVP?

  • * I think for all of Blizzard's attempts to make raids "bring the player, not the class", PVP has not seen the same attention. Arenas especially are built on the outstanding synergy of the team, and certain classes (and specs) have extremely good synergy with serveral different classes, while others have to find a very specific composition (sometimes there is none). I hope the new talents, and some work on the classes can alleviate some of the class representation in PVP. Even looking at RBGs, there are classes that are nearly required to have, and classes that are low represented for a reason.
    What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? (Things that are an inconvenience but don't significantly affect game play or balance)

    For me it has been the mismatch of roles. Currently RBGs are completely random in how many healers, tanks and DPS each side gets and while they probably balance out they have been a big frustration for me. What I would love to see is a queue system like heroics where you specify the role you want to queue for. And while this might not resolve the issue as long as 3 healers are placed in the BG for each side started for each side I think the experience might be better.

    What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?

    I liked how Twin Peaks turned out as a map and hope that WSG gets reworked so people can't clip through the tree stumps and such.

    What Cataclysm Arena changes/additions did you like?
    What Cataclysm General PVP changes/additions did you like?
    What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?

    The graveyard change in WSG. The Horde graveyard allows them to come out of the gate and just fall down without taking damage while the Alliance has to jump over to their graveyard then down to not take fall damage. Not a big deal but something that surprised me when I was on the horde side. Also graveyard farming seems to still be an issue in WSG. Clipping through the ground is one issue but could there be benefit in raising the graveyard higher instead of lowering it?

    What already announced Mists PVP changes/additions are you most looking forward to?

    Can't wait to see what comes from the new types of BGs. Capture the flag and resource gathering are cool but can't be done forever. :)
    The Good:

    • Easily accessible entry-level gear
    • Alternate means to obtain current-season gear
    • New abilities mostly enhancing PvP experience
    • Rated Battlegrounds
    • Honor-to-Justice Point Conversion

    The Not-Quite-So-Good:

    • New interrupt abilities causing shift to instant casts
    • Power of healing framing PvP as kill-healer-first-or-lose
    • Three-node battlegrounds
    • Out-of-control scaling in Level 10-84 battlegrounds
    • Too many fire-and-forget slows
    I'm just a BG-hero, so take my opinions as you will (and so I'm leaving out arena questions);

    01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
    What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? (Things that are an inconvenience but don't significantly affect game play or balance)
    For casters, so many silences and interrupts. It makes it less fun to play casters with lots of or long cast times vital to doing damage/healing.

    Spec viability as well; I don't like how I'm automatically a tard for playing fury, and I'm well aware of how little utility I get in comparison. It's the same for almost all classes. Being able to adequately pvp in any spec would be amazing.

    01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
    What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?
    The fact that we actually got new maps. I'm not madly in love with them, but it's nice getting new BGs, that DON'T have vehicles in them! And it wasn't so many BGs that you felt overwhelmed learning them all.

    I love conquest points in BGs. It's awesome, if a little low.

    01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
    What Cataclysm General PVP changes/additions did you like?
    I love the health pools. It's nice actually getting a few-minute fight in, and when I'm on my healers, actually be able to heal before someone's insta-dead. If the item-squish happens, I'd really like to see a similar relation in health pools and the percent of that health pool that can be chomped off by a single ability. I dunno how much that makes sense, lol

    01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
    What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?
    The people who get into BGs with NO gear. I'm not complaining about the people who are fresh 85s and only have greens on; I'm talking the people who come in naked, or might as well be because they're still in Brutal or Wrathful gear. Even leveling, this is a problem.

    Team matching could be improved. At 85, almost all of my BGs are crushing losses or landslide wins, almost no middle ground. Personally, I'd be willing to wait a tad bit longer for more well-matched teams.

    Also, the (lack of) balance in low level and twink BGs. End game PvP is what's going to be balanced around, and I get that. But in all brackets below 80, rogues can kill people before they can get out of stuns (and even one-shot in lower levels). It doesn't necessarily have to do with heirlooms, imo. Lower levels could benefit greatly from a stamina buff (say, just in BGs), from say level 78 and below. Hopefully the innate resil will help. But a close look at what abilities classes get at what levels, and how hard they hit, would be greatly appreciated. New players will, sooner or later, discover battlegrounds - and judging by the multitudes of them complaining on the forums, most of them get very turned off of it. I'd bet as a company, keeping them interested in PvP is a good idea, considering how much time can be put into it with getting points/gearing, with minimal time investment from developers.

    Slightly related, boss and vehicle health. At the beginning of the expansion, all is usually pretty good - but getting to the last patch like we are, things are getting a little skewed. We can pull Vanndar with two generals up. Vehicles in Strand basically disintegrate before you get to the gates - I find this on my 85 as well as my 70 twink. The opposite is true in some leveling battlegrounds - 80-84, the boss hits too hard to be able to kill before they wipe out the entire team. I don't know - scaling according to the team's gear, would be nice.

    "Players often have BG's they don't particularly enjoy, the ability to opt-out of 2-3 maps for random queues similar to the system that exists in Starcraft 2 would be amazing."
    Also, this.

    01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
    What already announced Mists PVP changes/additions are you most looking forward to?
    No, seriously, they look awesome and unique and I can't wait to see how the DOTA style game play is put into WoW. My only worry is that they'll be too complicated for the average BG-goer to grasp, lol.

    Also, baseline resil = awesome. I hope, like I mentioned above, that it will scale back with level, but give quite a bit pre-80.
    Im sure it had been said before, But reset MMR every season!!!!!!! Even multi glads ask for this, yet blizz turns a blind eye. Its is disgusting for people to run to 2.2k+ one season then the next with no MMR reset all they have to do is grind arena in one sitting and there at 2.2k+ again. Its honestly unfair

    The realy question being is anyone going to actually do anything with it?

    I read the news every day, but I can't and don't solve the world's problems, so just reading something doesn't really mean much. Can someone actually address some of these issues? Let us know if any changes are going to be made prior to MoP or if we should just hang up our hats now?

    Exactly what I thought. Words mean nothing until they are solidified into a patch, rolled out onto the public realms, and the game feels better for everyone. Nobody likes having their class nerfed, or wants to feel useless in certain aspects of the game. But that's a reality for people who want to play their character they've been with since vanilla but suddenly is nothing but left over patch notes.

    The community wants change, so when are we going to get it? 4.3.2? I don't see anything being changed in that patch. Looks like they're listening, but the thing is they're not doing.

    We may not know too many details about Blizzards internal development processes, but a little common sense can tell us that with a game this large with so many moving parts making major changes requires time and planning. The whole point of making this thread now when Mists likely wont be released for another 6 months at least (wild guess), is so the developers will actually have time to incorporate changes based on this feedback into the expansion.

    The fact that this thread is being watched and brought to devs is both nice to hear and also amazing ridiculous. Many of the current arena issues (and those last season) are mentioned 65 jillion times in WoW, MMO, and AJ forums.

    I am sure they were aware of a great deal of this before now, however it is good to have it all compiled for kind of a post-game review at times like this where there is a calm before the storm of the next expansion. Cataclysm isn't likely to change much from here forward, and Mists is still far enough away that they have a chance to incorporate changes based on the feedback we give here. This is just a great time for us to give them this kind of comprehensive feedback.
    For me the issue with PVP in general is the transition into PVP if you don't start ASAP at the start of the expansion. Right now when I enter a battleground in blue quality pvp gear I am a burden on my team mates, and while I could do 5-mans and convert jp to honor that means I as a player am taking a personal hit due to extra time to get gear to avoid being a burden.

    Whether its fair or not, people will always take the path of least resistance, and if I can get a piece of gear in 3-4 hours of pvping compared to doing 5-6 doing 5-mans then I'll always pvp. I love doing Modern Warfare because I can jump in at any time and even if my perks aren't great I can still contribute to my team, while right now I'm a dead-man walking.

    Overall I think PVP is better (although Warsong Gulch rep definitely needs a boost).
    I greatly dislike how there is an abundance of stuns/slows and hardly nothing to remove them. Yes the PvP trinkets to remove a debuff is necessary, but using it once every two minutes, and just getting another debuff after using it practically makes the point mute.
    CC - Bad This expansion, Simply Too many, Changing repentance into a polymorph next expansion will be bad. I also think it will break how retribution works while helping holy become an even stronger potential powerhouse. Throwdown not being trinketable due to animation is sort of bs too

    Battle of Gilnaes - Three nodes = one team getting annihalited a good portion of the time and them giving up. Seems fine other than that

    Twin Peaks - Warsong rehashed , I like

    Blood dks - Tanks in general, Too strong in pvp

    Self procs, automation - You know which classes automate moves, these classes are the too strong classes atm, fix the self-automated spells via nerfs or something

    Pvp armors being different = good this expansion

    Tol barad = Failure, I dont want to see another world battleground unless server balance is allowed/illidan gets a better server with an alliance server merged onto it for a mega server

    Rated bgs = Never partook, im not going to be part of another ninja guild / elitist jerk convention

    Guild recruitment posting is great however i believe there should be some sort of guild fee dependign on size or something for advertising your guild to limit the spam and really make peopel decide if they want to use it to find people, and more options for pvp recruiting .

    Crafting was terrible this expansion and thats alot to do with the linear questline/basing but i like how the pvp gear auto updated in the bags, although noone i know knew about it till i randomly read it online

    Specificaly cooking... Why do we need 500 new meats each expansion ? Cant we just add different spices/fish and then cook it a different way rather than causing us to get loaded bags full of junk?? Got to save some devlopement time that way too imo and add more value to junk that doesnt sell on the ah. This would allow us to focus on things like pvp more
    I want them to actually take an active role in pvp class balancing instead of this awful system they have going on right now. Different values for pvp and pve need to be implemented. Armor pen needs to be removed as a thing and the classes affected changed accordingly. Snares normalized at 50%. Speaking of which DO NOT WAIT UNTIL MOP TO GIVE RET A SNARE.

    tldr your pvp is so awful right now I bought a 3 month Rift subscription for something to do on non raid nights. Everyone I talked to about the game said that Trion was the most active mmo dev around.
    Things I like:

    *Addition of RBG
    *2 levels of pvp gear only, honor that can be farmed and competitive gear. This allows casual players to access pvp without being at a huge disadvantage in gear.
    *Like the Cataclysmic Gladiator gear models. Keep making different look theme gladiator sets for each season just like raid tier sets are fresh with each new tier.
    *Enjoyed Twin Peaks, essentially WSG but slightly different-ish? I guess I just like capture the flag and multiple levels and entrances.
    *World pvp zone, however...see below

    Things I don't like or can be improved greatly:

    *Tol Borad is so horrible! Wintergrasp was 10x better. TB is super small and an annoying rush zerg fest even after the tweaks it is still horrible.
    *Some pve gear is really overpowered for use in pvp. Legendary weapons and some trinkets for example.
    *New bg's are basically the same as old ones. Looking forward to new bg's in MoP that have some new dynamics.
    *PVP content seems to only launch with a new expansion. Would be great if there were pvp content additions during an expansion. Not necessarily new maps but some more pvp content?
    *Currently melee has a huge advantage over ranged still for the most part. With the exception of frost mages. Rogue stunlock is still insane and DK anti-caster, snaring and damage and survivability is out of control. The other melee class/specs are okay for the most part.

    Sorry...coming to the party forgive me if what I'm about to say has already been said...

    but what I would like to see is more viability of world PvP. I realize WoW is not a WPvP focused game, but the brilliant minds at Blizz must be able to find ways to make it fun and worthwhile, without making it the game's sole focus or harshing the buzz of people just trying to get stuff done...

    That said, here's what I've heard is coming, or would like to see return, to get WPvP back in the mix again...

    1) World bosses...their return would be most welcome.
    2) Making capital city raids worth something again, without making them overly problematic for the folks just trying to live their lives...nerf the guard respawns, and perhaps give some additional honor or vanity rewards/titles like For the Alliance/Horde
    3) Buff WG to make it usable in endgame again...I may be in the minority here, but I really enjoyed WG and making it another fun alternative to TB (and whatever is coming in MoP) would be great. As a side note, make TB usable in endgame for MoP as well...the more viable places those of us who love huge groups of players bashing away at each other there are in the game, the better
    4) For MoP, perhaps a combination of all these ideas...separate faction "cities" on Pandaria that are raidable come end game, with dungeons and bosses with PvP loot if they are taken/defended, and some kind of city leader that must be taken down/defended as a PvP objective.

    Those are my overly simplified suggestions towards making PvP, particularly WORLD PvP a viable part of WoW going forward.
    Please, please, please, please make a deathmatch map. I despise objective based maps.
    I enjoy battlegrounds so much, I think the reps associated should be slightly easier to obtain, even if it just means getting some rep at the end of a game, win or lose. Also I would love it if you got the 50 conquest per win in a BG for any one you choose to play, rather than just random. I think you should get much more bonus honor, and the initial 100 conquest each day for using random, though. (I'm a warsong fan and I'll play warsong all the time if I could ^.^)

    The last thing, I really loved back in BC when pvp gear was recolored tier gear, it just looked and felt awesome. My favorite sets ever are from those periods, I'd love to see that make a comeback, although I'm sure there are many mixed opinions on whether pvp gear should be recolored tier gear or not.

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