Cataclysm PVP Feedback

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My two biggest complaints have been touched on. Low level PVP and bots.

But after playing that sci-fi mmo that came out recently, I don't think I will complain too much about PVP.

I've been reading this thread closely since it started, hoping to find some aggregate points of feedback to compile and share with the WoW development team.

So far, so good.

I just want to point out that posts with well-reasoned answers to both what-you-like and what-you-dislike are the best. A post with a single, pertinent point is not bad, and we definitely compile them into feedback. But they don't give us much to work with compared to posts that attempt to follow Eldacar's lead in the OP, and address a lot of the breadth of this part of the game.

I love WoW PvP, and I hope this thread carries on!

Major complaint with Cataclysm PvP is that it failed to slow down the pace of PvP like intended. They wanted to increase health pools and have less bursts of 100-0 windows and they only half succeeded. Half as in, it's still possible and common, it's just less classes are capable of doing so and it's led to the dominance of those classes for lengthy periods each season. Meanwhile, many other specs have languished for the entire expansion. There's been very little even playing field overall. Anyone reading this immediately knows which classes I'm talking about.

Other smaller ones would be wayyyyyyyyyy too much CC and a pretty brokenly OP dispel system.

I give Blizzard credit for the effort and their heart was clearly in the right place, however actual implementation failed.

I did however enjoy Twin Peaks. One of the best BGs and it's nothing more than a reskin of WSG. It brought new life into the CTF game.
  • What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? (Things that are an inconvenience but don't significantly affect game play or balance)
  • What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?
  • What Cataclysm Arena changes/additions did you like?
  • What Cataclysm General PVP changes/additions did you like?
  • What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?
  • What are your top issues with Arenas in Cataclysm?
  • What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?

  • [li]What already announced Mists PVP changes/additions are you most looking forward to?

    I liked the removal of SotA from RBGs even though it did reduce all games to 10m.

    I like that they fixed Ring of Valor, elevators were bad.

    I like the class balance as a whole. Before you say it's imbalanced note, I'm talking in an RBG or arena, not 1v1.

    My top issues with the current Battlegrounds are the fact that Isle of Conquest and Strands of the Ancient still exist. The reason 15v15 RBG was unpopular was because you could get SOTA. Such a minority of the player base like this BG it should be removed. Or at least give us the option to uncheck one or two BGs from our random queue.

    I think arena is currently as good as it could be. More tightly toon class balance is my only suggestion. I'd say hunters are too be on specific maps but once they can shoot from melee range they won't suck anymore.

    My top issue with PvP is gearing all of my toons. I have 17 level 85s and I believe 14 of them currently have full honor gear+ I completely understand MMOs are about the grind but I almost want a GW server where I can just make a toon and PvP.

    If I remember correctly there will basically be a BG where you need to out kill the enemy team? (AV turtle basically but w/o the ability to regain reinforcements) I want that. If I remember wrong and that isn't a thing, idc much for MoP PvP specifically but will continue to love PvP.

    I hope for fixes for low level pvp aswell, just dinged 60, qued for random, and now getting graveyard camped in wsg because there team has 4 dks and we have 0,

    rogues and dk win games in these lower brackets, not players.
    I would like for there to be a place to find comprehensive and detailed information on certain aspects of PvP. For instance, how fast you can accumulate points in EotS (each flag cap is worth x amount, and each tower earns you x per second), or how exactly resources are affected in AV. From my experience, the only way to discover these things is asking questions on the forums or sifting through patch notes (which only sometimes works). If this magical place already exists, I'm sorry for wasting your time, but I think that if it were easily accessible to new players (and old ones too, actually) it would help a lot.

    If this is not possible I know I could make more of an effort to figure it out myself, but since the information already exists somewhere, it would be nice to post it all in one place (and if it already is please direct me there and I'll /blush).

  • What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? (Things that are an inconvenience but don't significantly affect game play or balance)

  • PVP requireing PVE items to be effective. This has been a huge issue for me since Classic, and continues to persist. I feel that PVE items should be BANNED from rated battlegrounds, as well as arenas. PVP is the focus, You have BGs for getting pvp gear, and crafted for just starting out - there's no reasons for Dragonwrath, Warglaives, smourn, Val'anyr, Fangs, or Sulfuras hammer -wielding players to be so far ahead of other players, that they don't have an honest chance to compete.

    The other issue is the Human racial "every man for himself". This is an INCREDIBLY powerful ability that I honestly feel EVERY race should have. This should be blanket, and not be eating a trinket slot, or no one should have it. It's another one of those so powerful, if you don't have it - you're playing at a severe disadvantage.

  • What Cataclysm Arena changes/additions did you like?

  • I liked that for about half a season mana mattered, and people didn't blow up in seconds. Unfortunately that is already gone. It's not uncommon to see a 4k resil player die in a global to a rogue for example. =/ Dragonwrath Spriests & mages are similar.

  • What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?

  • Low level BGs are broken. Period. 10-70s It's not uncommon to outright be one-shot, even in FULL boas. You may get pitted against 10 healers, and you have 0. Some form of balance here would be nice, in both aspects.

  • What are your top issues with Arenas in Cataclysm?

  • Severe lack of balance. Most of my pvping friends have quit. This is the least balanced expansion to date. It's so bad, it's not even funny. Rogues globaling people thanks to a trinket, OP legendaries galore, PVE items breaking PVP, Some classes being practically useless in both pvp and pve - not seeing any form of buff at all(hi2u hunters), CCs galore, almost everybody has a snare, or a slow, abilities like Desecration - aoe slow applied passivly, and mages able to completely stop pretty much any melee. It's all around turned into an arms race of mobility vs immobility.

    I don't mind slows, however the fact that every class has one, almost every spec has one, and at least 6 classes apply them passively, leaving pvp physically moving at a snails pace, while the damage is not lowered at all.(Rogues Cripling, DKs Desecration, Ferals Infected Wounds, Shaman's Frosttongue/Frost Shock(included with roots~), hunters 100% up time Concussive Shot/Chimaera daze/trap root, Prot Pallys Shield Daze, Frost mages Frost bolt/Ice armor/Nova/Cone of Cold/pet freeze, Destro's Aftermath, Demo's 95% slow Hand of Gul'dan, Affliction's 100% up time Curse of Exhaust, etc.) Does EVERYBODY really need a slow? =/

    I've given up on pvp, minus a little taste at the start of each season. I quite simply don't enjoy playing the game as walking being on full time.

    What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?

    My final issue, that I haven't posted above, is the number of interrupts. You can juke a mind freeze, Juke the strang(to still be silenced), juke the following mind freeze, Juke the spell lock(to still be silenced, for only 2 seconds though!), only to be dcoiled, to be forced to juke another mind freeze...and there's 35 seconds where you could not cast. Period. With so many interupts - and a few classes having multiple, it feels like you're trying to balance casters insane damage and defensive cooldowns with never being allowed to hard cast. It also feels like you're all around punishing hard casts this entire expansion - from the change to Ice Lance, to the Warlock ability Shadow Flame.

    With the change to dual-school spells, Suddenly shadow priests are terrible targets to interrupt, due to it not stopping their damage at all. I think this is an interesting way to handle it. I do however wish you'd lay back on the interrupts, and snares/slows for MoP. I hope I'm not alone, but I don't enjoy playing the game moving at 50% speed, while having to avoid 3 different interrupts in 3v3.

    I'm sorry, but I really struggle to find something I enjoy about cataclysms pvp. The only thing I can really think of is I like the new BG, as well as the ability to get CQ from Random BGs. I feel this should move a little closer to what you get from arenas, but what can ya do. I did enjoy tanks being viable again in pvp, I'm sad to see it being nerfed. My Prot pally, and blood dk had a lot of fun while it lasted.
    My biggest issue is with the fact that Blizzard did not even attempt to fix a single one of the issues they addressed as problems going from Wrath to Cataclysm.

    Three things are the major culprits and I could probably site blue posts for all of them:
    1. Dispel system revamp. Dispelling requires more of a decision. NOT FIXED.
    2. Burst. Both healing and damage. NOT FIXED
    3. Diminishing of the CC arms race. NOT FIXED

    You had only three goals for PvP in this expansion and you failed to deliver on them. My hope is that with MoP you will actually at least attempt to make the changes that you propose. And please, start with the CC. The burst and dispel is bearable as long as you aren't sitting in 15-20 seconds of being controlled.

    I'll also mention that, unlike in earlier seasons and expansions, the burst NEVER came down and the CC has only gotten worse. Some classes have an absurd amount of both of the above while others have to suffer by having one or the other thus providing more imbalance to the game.

    3. Install "Reversal" mechanics. It's been done in a few other multiplayer games that, if the game appears to be too one-sided (in that one team is doing exceptionally well and the other is not), several factors will be initiated to try and even the odds. Sometimes this works like a brief damage reduction buff, or a single player who is doing exceptionally well is branded a "marked man" and appears to everyone on the map and takes extra damage and gives extra honor.

    Some brief ideas, but in general, I want to feel like battlegrounds are more about skill and less about who was unlucky when the numbers came up.


    You want it to be about skill but if one team is playing better than another you want a buff to the loser?

    How does that make it about skill?

    That handicaps exceptional players.
    What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? (Things that are an inconvenience but don't significantly affect game play or balance)

    1) Difference between arena & RBG point cap. It was a completely unnecessary change that favours RBGs while sticking it to people who like arena.
    2) Change in point cap per win. The original system at the start of S9 (5 wins to cap) or the original TBC system (points based on rating on reset) were much more user friendly. You can't seriously consider playing high rated alts (i.e., 2200+) unless you want to spend all your time capping points.

    What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?

    1) Twin Peaks is a nice map.
    2) Battle for Gilneas would also be great if they reduced the points to 1600 like every other BG

    What Cataclysm Arena changes/additions did you like?

    1) Ring of Valor changes.
    2) Otherwise, arena was completely ignored for this expansion --- so nothing.

    What Cataclysm General PVP changes/additions did you like?

    1) Ease of signing up / creating a new team.

    What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?

    1) Bots everywhere
    2) Terrible team mates.
    3) Drawn out matches (i.e., AV)

    What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?

    1) Every class can heal for a billion hp. I've been in 5 minute matches against 2 dps (i.e., feral druid/ret/dk) and they can take 300-500k dmg and still end the match at 100% health. Why play a healer when DPS can heal just as well?
    2) Burst can be out of hand
    3) Too many flavour of the month comps that get created because of broken game mechanics. They never get hotfixed and people get gladiator because of it.
    4) Basically every caster has had a good number of abilities become instant and/or able to cast while moving. They are no longer casters, but spamming 1 button (i.e., ice lance anyone?)
    5) Unavoidable CC / minimal effort to CC (i.e., feral druids did not need instant clone --- allow them to cast cyclone while in feral instead).
    6) Game breaking PVE trinkets
    7) Lack of concern regarding PVP from Blizzard. PVE heroes always get things the way they want it.
    8) A Major One ---> Each season the gear is boring. The newest set of items are ALWAYS ONLY STAT UPGRADES FROM THE PREVIOUS SEASON. Why can't you make a variety of interesting trinkets, set bonuses, etc that makes getting a new set feel different than healing or damaging for bigger numbers. Give some depth to strategy / itemization beyond getting them from PVE gear.
    Pve gear out of pvp

    -Smart RandomBG queueing system certain amount of healers etc
    -group low il/resil people with each other
    -base damage reduction for low level pvp
    -a lot of classes useless in arena, you never see destro locks anymore etc
    -more world pvp, besides another TB for MoP
    -would love to see pvp slowed down a bit more
    suprise me blizzard! :D
    show more love for the pvp community

    Not going to stick to the format, just adding my 2 cents.

    All my opinions are based on arena, hardly did rbgs, always hated the idea of them.

    -Healers should go oom in arena, like the beginning of cata when all healers had mana issues. Games shouldn't last because healers will never go oom.
    -Ban pve items, they destroyed a majority of cata and was seen clearly.
    -Skill should overpower gear/comp setup. Comps such as rls s11 are just over the top. For a lot of people it doesn't matter how good you play. Even if you play flawless you can still lose to FOTM comps, random trinket procs, or just complete RNG luck.
    -Balance issues, while hard, should be better than cata. There were to many FOTM classes, specs, and comps. Makes it really annoying to play unless you are one of them.
    -Kills should be set up in arena. You should have to actually try to get kills, not just destroy someone in a 3 second switch through cds.

    Probably a lot more things, but all I can think of right now.

    Ah, one point I forgot to mention is that the PvP daily should be changed into a weekly reward, allowing you 7 full rewards for your first seven wins, similar to what is done with dungeons.

    Heck, throw some gold in there since many PvPers appear to be poverty stricken.
    Also, mana doesn't matter anymore. People don't go OOM. Also, if they do, they have abilities to recover mana almost immediately with little effort.
    What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues?
    Inability to que into RBGs with less than a full raid. Allowing groups of 5 to merge would be MUCH better. I know 4 good reliable 2200+ players on a first name basis - we have synergy and friendship. I don't know 9 to group with.

    Time it takes for changes to happen - MMR abuse, Vengence, OP items like Vial and OP abilities such as early DK deathstrike shouldn't ruin an entire season. Make changes soon, often and in small increments. Deathstrike was OP at 15% for a whole season. (I would argue) its nearly useless now at 7%. Rather than waiting whole seasons or expansions where abilities are OP or terrible please make small incremental changes. When you cut an abilities power in half (or double it) it makes me feel like you guys are just throwing darts at an AP conversion chart. I would have no problem whatsoever if DS had been nerfed every week by 1% for 8 weeks. At least it would seem that there is an earnest attempt at balance and that the devs are actually monitoring the issue.

    What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?
    Allowing players to get conquest more than once a day from daily BGs - mind mindbogglingly still not in the 7x a week format like valor, that allows players with lives to not have to make a commitment to play EVERY DAY but a step in the right direction I suppose.

    What Cataclysm Arena changes/additions did you like?
    Finally reset the MMR and gave non week 1 glads a chance to get somewhere. I guess that's a "change"?

    What Cataclysm General PVP changes/additions did you like?
    TP is better than WSG? I don't know - there didn't feel like there were any really significant or ground breaking changes.

    What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?
    1. Rampant AFK'ers / Bots in regular BGs - needs a more effective AFK reporting system. A captcha or something - anything.

    2. And as noted above unnecessary difficulty in forming RBG groups. Allowing 5m groups to que (not excluding 10 and up groups - just in addition to) would allow existing comfortable arena teams to que like they always do - in their own vents and work as a unit/squad within the larger game. This would allow more players to que more often, would allow maps like AB and eye to be changed to the proper 15m format they were designed for and would allow the larger BGs such as AV and IoC to be played.

    3. PVD - Player vs. Vehicle vs. Door. Pressing "1-1-2" while facing a wall. Very exciting.

    3b / 4. - Why in the world am I not able to que for specific BGs like I can for dungeons? I dont mean que for one single specific BG, but to click the boxes and make a list of what I do and dont want to play. I just want to get into a good PvP battle as soon as possible be it AB, WSG or TP - if there is bloodshed its fine by me. On the other hand when my que pops and I get IoC I usually AFK out as the deserter buff is usually shorter and yet still more interesting than the actual BG.

    What are your top issues with Arenas in Cataclysm?
    Healing is far too strong. DPS get penalized (for good reason) by resilience to make dragon slaying damage more reasonable. However healers get a free pass when they were designed around having 5 people keep up 25 through massive raid damage. A percent of resilience damage reduction should also dampen healing. EG 40% resil should reduce heals by 15%, 50% damage = 17% healing or something. Numbers can be tweaked but the concept seems solid.

    Non healers - healing more than healers. Remember when every other thread was about over powered DK healing? How about 120k WoG ret insta casts? Rogue recuperate in stealth back to full? This should NEVER happen. Let heals - heal and dps - dps. The idea that I regularly see DK / Warrior / Feral / Lock that heal as much as my healer, then I see Ret / Enhance / Rogue that heal for double is just insane.

    What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?
    As noted above excessive healing by pretty much everyone but mage / hunter.

    Difficulty in forming and keeping casual RBG groups outside of a dedicated RBG guild with set raid nights and times.

    What already announced Mists PVP changes/additions are you most looking forward to?

    Literally none of the PvP specific changes are appealing.
    I dislike baseline resil.
    I feel like DoTA / Mine cart will be the new PVD like IoC.
    Murderball sounds good - but we all know is not a new or novel idea.
    New arena is a reskin, and holds no new value.
    Doubtful of world pvp(that change would have been made long ago if it was a true intention).

    The best "PvP" change will be added variety of specs due to new talent system.

    P.S. Please remove 5,000 character cap from posts. Thanks,

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