Cataclysm PVP Feedback

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I only have one significant issue with pvp and the announced changes with Mists concern me greatly because of it.

I know it is a topic that is beat to death, but I dont think world pvp can really exist in any fun way with the severe population imbalances that currently exist. It was tolerable in cataclysm because of things like flying mounts and city guards (I realize that comment will probably cause some issues) but it could still get really bad really fast. 4/5/10 to 1 isnt fun - its just a gankfest.

No flying and more incentive to be out in the world would be great - in a perfectly balanced world. What I'm expecting now is another horrid gankfest while leveling. That isnt what i was expecting when I rolled on a pvp server - and it isnt fun in any way.

My plea to the designers would be to look beyond placating comments like "learn to pvp" or "you should have rolled on a pve server" and actually come up with some kind of game mechanic that makes it less of a gankfest (while still letting everyone play). Until you can do that (or magically balance servers), world pvp will always be considered more of a hassle than a real part of the game.

I realize that feels like a real challenge, but if the goal is to emphasize the war between factions in Mists, you need to make it fun for both factions - or a bad problem will only get worse. People not playing for the first weeks of the expansion or rerolling to the more populated faction on these servers - these are the responses we've seen in the past.

Again, please look past the degrading comments that these posts typically generate and think about how this issue can be resolved - in a way that makes the game fun for BOTH factions.
01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? (Things that are an inconvenience but don't significantly affect game play or balance)

It would be nice to see timers built in to the BGs themselves vs. just being on DBM. I also dislike the fact that high-level players are encouraged to have 50-60 keybinds, but that's not a fight I'm going to win.

01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?

Twin Peaks is a nice change of pace from WSG. I like BfG's artwork, but it's even harder for the undergeared team to win than AB is.

01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
What Cataclysm Arena changes/additions did you like?

I liked seeing the return of RoV. I generally prefer the wide-open Arenas to the enclosed and dense spaces like Dalaran and Blade's Edge.

01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
What Cataclysm General PVP changes/additions did you like?

The honor change was a nice touch. I absolutely hated the honor grind in BC and Wrath, and the Cata honor grind seemed much more palatable in comparison.

01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?

Healers. Healing is very overpowered and has been since the start of Cataclysm. "Killing the healer" should be a viable strategy, but too often in random BGs it seems utterly useless. I know healers complain about coordinated CC and focused burst, but that's nearly impossible to organize in a random battleground. If a group of players has 2-3 healers in it, it is nearly impossible to kill anyone in that group. Healers should have the impact of an equally skilled and geared DPS, but their impact on a BG seems much greater than that.

Rewarding the winning team with conquest seems like a good idea, but it just amplifies the punishment for losing. I'd like to see some system in place that rewards players for continuing to fight even in a lost cause. (For example, if a player does 500,000 damage or gains 2 killing blows or heals 500,000 damage or gets a flag return/cap when his team is down 2 caps, that player gets the rewards for winning regardless of the loss.) I absolutely hate the idea that a player can play well and still be punished for losing because the random BG tool gave him an inferior group to the competition.

01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
What are your top issues with Arenas in Cataclysm?

Healers. It seems like I have to really outplay a healer or else he's just going to shrug off all my damage. Again, a healer's contribution to a team should be equal to that of an equally geared and skilled DPS. No more, no less. If you have to choose, make DPS more powerful because every class has access to a DPS spec.

01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?

It seems like Blizzard really dropped the ball on resilience scaling in Cataclysm. It happened once early on to leave healers incredibly overpowered, and now in 4.3 resilience seems more useless than ever in the face of increasing burst. I'd like to see resilience's power increased again, but not in a way that further empowers healers.

01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
What already announced Mists PVP changes/additions are you most looking forward to?

I like lowering the barrier for entry to PvP. Right now, it seems like you're a liability to your team unless you're in full PvP gear. I'd like to see the blue pvp set put on vendors for a nominal cost. I also like the new BGs because of the way they'll bring new BG styles to the game.

I dislike the focus on Horde vs. Alliance and world PvP. I just don't see how well it will work when balanced servers (especially balanced PvP servers) are already rare and will become rarer.
01/29/2012 05:33 PMPosted by Darkrachet
T2 Weapons are too much more powerful than T1 weapons. PvP needs to be about skill not gear.
Takes skill to get t2 soooo better skilled players get rewarded? Sounds great to me.
No, it's backwards.

The best people in the game do not need the best things in the game. If you are already beating everyone, you don't need better gear.

It might be FUN to have the best items in the game, but it makes no logical sense.
I'm going with the template, but I'm skipping the changes/additions as I only started PvPing in Cata so I can't really compare it to BC, WotLK, ect.

What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? (Things that are an inconvenience but don't significantly affect game play or balance)

Hmm...probably the biggest issue for me is not so much with max level PvP, but with lower level PvP. Without resilience, I almost feel as if I'm a walking one hitter. I understand resilience is going to be a base stat with MoP coming, and I certainly hope this will fix this problem, because it is a big reason that I do not enjoy lower level PvP.

What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?

I am referring to unrated battlegrounds, but here we go:

As I stated before, my biggest issue is more the lower level PvP than the max level PvP. I really wish I and others could survive longer in BGs. It would make for a more epic feeling experience.

Other than that, I guess I would say the players bother me, because they can be over competitive some times, and they tend to whine when we are losing a BG. I understand that Blizzard can't really do any thing about that though.

What are your top issues with Arenas in Cataclysm?

I've never seriously participated in an Arena. I've done a couple with my GF, but not seriously because she is more of a casual. I did attempt 3s with a Frost DK and a Resto Shaman, but I soon realized Arenas are not for me. Arenas require quite a good deal of communication for success, and I am a very shy person. Because of my experience in unrated BGs, I can only imagine someone nerd raging at me if I do something wrong.

Personally, I'm a laid back person and I prefer for people to be the same to me. I have never witnessed nerd rage in a vent, because I've never given them a chance.

I realize that Arenas are more for hard core players, at least in my opinion, so therefore, they are not for me.

What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?

Blizzard has taken a significant step in the right direction with patch 4.3, but I guess I just wish there were more ways to gain Conquest Points. I hate participating in arenas for the reasons listed in the previous question,

I've stated before that I wish that lower levels had more survivability in PvP. While I realize it would take a lot of work, maybe some basic pvp gear could be offered to lower levels when they reach level 10, and they could get regeared every 10-20 levels or so.

What already announced Mists PVP changes/additions are you most looking forward to? (here is a summary of what is coming: )

Based on what I've read on MMOChamp, and from the link you've posted, I am looking most forward to the following:

-The New Payload BG
-The Murderball BG
-Resilience as a Base Stat
-'Natural' Feeling World PVP

One thing I want to add, though, is that while I am excited about the Natural World PvP, I am also skeptical. The reason for this is because, according to your post, OP, is because the quests in MoP will push players together more. I am concerned about this because I know it can mean 2 different things:

-It can mean that Blizzard wants us to be nearby when questing, which I'm fine with
-It can mean Blizzard wants us to group up and quest together, which I am not ok with.

I am not ok with the 2nd option, because to me, questing is relaxing. It is something for a casual player like myself to look forward to. It gets me away from other players and allows me to enjoy some time to myself. I feel as if this would completely push me away from questing, which is an aspect of the game that I enjoy the most. If I was wrong about what I thought that meant, or if someone else has some perspective to share, then feel free to by all means.


Overall, I'm looking forward to the expansion and I'm looking forward to the PvP changes :) There are just some things that I am curious about, more than any thing. As are we all, I suppose :)
Pvp overall feels very similar to wotlk to me. Less burst damage overall but thats about it.

My list of problems as I see it:

1. No gold reward for participating. Should be something similar to when you pick a random dungeon to run, 80-ish gold for a win, 20-ish for a loss. I realize this encourages bots, but bots are a major problem ruining pvp for a large, large variety of reasons already.

2. Why not put the daily random BG reward as something you can do seven times no matter when during the week just as dungeons are? They didn't want a player to feel they needed to log in every day to get that daily done for dungeons, but why not apply the same logic for pvp?

3. Tol Barad is uninspiring. I dont' like this even half as much as I like wintergrasp. I'm not normally a big fan of siege vehicles and such but Tol Barad feels too simple and less epic.

4. I'd rather see each weekend have three BG's for that BG weekend rather than just one. This would add a bit more customization for more frequently picking a BG you actually like.

5. The wounded state. This was the chief goal that I wanted to see in pvp for this expansion but it didn't happen. Everyone is either full on health or very low/dead. This ties in greatly with #6....

6. Healers can make unorganized random BG pvp very depressing to bother with sometimes and its because healers are either dominant keeping everyone alive or a low-issue if the dps has their game on. Usually, they're giving one side the go-ahead win because one side has more. Everyone knows this. It's why I see so many people saying in our BG chat exactly which side has more healers or listing the alliance healers so that we DPS know who to focus. If we don't, we will lose and lose badly. At the same time, I don't want healers to be so weak that they're a non-issue in organized pvp. It feels more tactical with the synergy between dps and healers in organized games, it just feels very OP in unorganized pvp. My solution is vague but I'd like to see to it that a few cast heals don't bring a player from low health to full health, healers would be much more durable but heal for far less so that people actually are in that wounded state.

7. PVE stuff in pvp. This has been covered a billion times so no further comment necessary.

8. Oh yeah, any pvp below 85 is godawful. It's jarring to go from 85 pvp with decent resilience, to anything else. Nothing fun about it, even when I'm the hunter getting wrecking ball at level 19 I don't feel good about it. its just stupid.
What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? (Things that are an inconvenience but don't significantly affect game play or balance)
I pvp my alts to level them, and have a few twinks, I dislike the survivability and one-shots that happen.

What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?
I enjoyed twin peaks, the map was much better than WSG for me.

What Cataclysm Arena changes/additions did you like?
I sort of liked that people couldn't use hero in arena.

What Cataclysm General PVP changes/additions did you like?
The reorganization of what levels your get certain spells

What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?
I disliked Twin peaks and WSG's GYs, it's too easy to camp people

What are your top issues with Arenas in Cataclysm?
I'm actually ok with most things in arenas right now

What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?
Once again, the low survivability and lack of healing CDs (hunter/warrior)
One thing I liked about Cataclysm PVP was the diversity of comps that were able to be relatively successful, more so than in Wotlk in my opinion. I'd say you guys made great strides towards the "bring the player not the class" motto. Obviously there are always going to be comps that are stronger than others, but it was nice to be able to have wiggle room in terms of team make up.

That said, I play warrior, and I love them so much that I have multiple across a few accounts. Our arena representation has been very poor this season, and I believe that the root cause is that they bring comparable damage to the table, but lack up-time on their target and utility to make them more desired. In season 10 and 11 especially, warriors were just simply not practical. I say that because you can bring a warrior and do pretty well, but it would make much more sense to bring a rogue, DK, etc.

All in all, I'd say Cataclysm PVP did exceed in bringing some diversity, but from a warrior's perspective, I believe our up-time, mobility, and utility could use some looking at.
What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? (Things that are an inconvenience but don't significantly affect game play or balance)

The sheer amount of buffing some classes have to do pre arena games ie warlocks soulstone , priests having to always re inner fire etc, especially in BGS for classes such as shadow priests things such as vamp embrace and inner fire should persist through death.

What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?

I enjoy cross battlegroup queues and twin peaks/ gilneas

What Cataclysm Arena changes/additions did you like?

I did not agree with the majority of changes with cataclysm arena.

What Cataclysm General PVP changes/additions did you like?

What general pvp?

What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?
AB/AV take almost twice as long for no reason find a way to shorten games a little bit
SoTA/Isle- both terribly imbalanced in siege based combat and has very little change to games at all.
What are your top issues with Arenas in Cataclysm?

Interrupts are terrible at this point in pvp.
Too much healing for some specs (rets, rogues, spriests, blood) while not enough for other hybrids make it somewhat more even
Cooldown based CCs, it is completely unfair to Elemental, Enhance, Ret, and even Rogues blind, make the cooldowns a little less penalizing since specs like a mage can cc and almost full dps a whole team if they want.

What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?

The fact that tol barad is a quite poor substitute for world pvp.
find a way to integrate world pvp better and make tol barad style boss drops ONLY pvp gear, you can acquire tier gear through raiding much quicker as is.
What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? (Things that are an inconvenience but don't significantly affect game play or balance)

The biggest quality-of-life issue for me and every Hunter right now is that Disengage is BUGGED. It has been bugged since patch 4.3 was released. Any stuns, roots or incapacitation effects that hit the Hunter during his disengage will teleport the Hunter to the original place that they disengaged from, or drop them straight to the ground. It completely ruins Disengage.

What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?

The debuff that gets put on flag carriers is helpful and makes games better.

What Cataclysm Arena changes/additions did you like?

The only thing I liked was that we don't have to wait until Tuesday to get our arena points. That's the only thing, because Cataclysm ruined arena otherwise.

What Cataclysm General PVP changes/additions did you like?

The reduction of Crowd Control duration from 10 seconds to 8 seconds.

What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?

Rated Battlegrounds give so much more Conquest Points than Arena teams do. Arena has always been the most competitive style of PvP, yet Rated Battlegrounds give such a higher conquest point cap, when at the same rating as an arena team.

What are your top issues with Arenas in Cataclysm?

Arena players are being FORCED to do rated battlegrounds, just so they can get a high Conquest Point cap. Rated Battlegrounds give a higher cap no matter what rating, compared to an equal arena rating.

The main reason they added Rated Battlegrounds was because players felt they HAD to arena in order to get the best gear. Now you reversed it. Arena players feel that they HAVE to do rated battlegrounds in order to get the best gear, quickest.

What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?

-Since Burning Crusade, the one thing that has made PVP imbalanced the most, is PVE GEAR. DO NOT LET PLAYERS USE IT IN RATED PVP. Warglaives, Deathbringer's Will, Armor Penetration gear, mastery trinkets, Vial of Shadows, Cunning of the Cruel, Deathwing weapons, have all ruined PVP more than anything. Just kill the problem.

-Smoke Bomb. Plain and simple. No other ability has been complained about more than Smoke Bomb. It is blatantly over the top.

-All 11 classes need a decent toolkit of utility. Some have not enough, some have too much.

-Tol Barad was bad, compared to Wintergrasp. Defending Tol Barad is significantly easier than offense, especially on servers with a population imbalance. Wintergrasp was great, and so was the tenacity buff.

What already announced Mists PVP changes/additions are you most looking forward to? (here is a summary of what is coming: )

I am looking forward to the new talent system, though I hope each class gets a fair amount of time put into their talent designs.

Fix Disengage, it has been bugged since patch 4.3. >.>
# What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? (Things that are an inconvenience but don't significantly affect game play or balance)

-PvP areas such as TB become far less populated when the faction rewards are no longer compelling, which happened very quickly in Cataclysm. I joined TB as often as I could on this character and by the time I had enough TB tokens for a weapon I could get a vastly superior one with Conquest points.
-Rated BG groups can be a *gigantic* pain in the behind to form. Something similar to raid finder to facilitate the faster formation of groups would be useful.
-You don't get gold directly from PvP (except by looting players). The closest you can come is selling trade skill items by spending honor on them, which is great for characters such as this one that never need honor for gear, but for my alts, who virtually always do, they already have to spend every bit of honor they get on gear. You should get gold for winning a random BG the first 7 times you do so a week.
-Why is HK count no longer listed on the honor tab? Bring that back please. It's annoying to have to look at my armory or my kill count achievement to see how much a given character has.

# What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?

-I like that the rated version of EotS uses AB style flags (change the non rated version to this, please)
-I love Twin Peaks. More CTF maps please.
-Battle for Gilneas is alright but perhaps a bit oversimplified. I think the AB game model simply works better with 5 nodes.
-Conquest points from random BGs is excellent for alts/finishing up point totals if you get sick to death of arena matches/waiting for RBG groups to form.
-PvP weapons that can be bought with honor. It was wise to bring this back. Never remove it again. Or my alts will bite you. Hard.

# What Cataclysm Arena changes/additions did you like?

-The UI for adding people to a team and looking through your teams is nice looking and more efficient now.

# What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?

-AV has grown very stale after doing it literally hundreds of times
-The WotLK battlegrounds focus on boring, vehicle vs gate mechanics far too heavily. I spend more time shooting at gates or planting bombs than I do directly fighting other players. I like it when there are objectives other than killing, but those that have almost nothing to do with opposing players should not be the focus of a battleground.
-Random BGs generate so much more honor than specific BGs that I can never bring myself to do specific ones unless I'm trying to finish the achievements for them.
-There is no achievement beyond Battlemaster for achieving mastery of the BGs added since the title was created. Please add one for MoP that is awarded for achieving Battlemaster + mastery of IoC, TP, BFG and the MoP battlegrounds.

# What are your top issues with Arenas in Cataclysm?

-You can't get elite gear from 2v2, so I have no incentive to raise my rating. I don't care that it's not balanced. None of your PvP is. You can keep the titles and mounts, just let me earn the red, elite gear. It matches my eyes better.

(Part 1)

Quality of life issues - random bgs:
1. Terrain - the ability of ranged to still attack through rocks and maintain LOS (note - this issue in AV has existed since Vanilla). The inability of a warrior to heroic leap over a twig, uphill, or even in locations where you are simply told there is no path. Note - consider that HL is the "second closer" for an already severely nerfed class and it's effectively neutralized (disclaimer, my main is a warrior). Second note - sadly, Blizz has acknowledged in past blue posts that it is aware of terrain issues but that "it takes too much in resources to fix." Blizz would rather devote those same resources to making new stuff or fixing raid bugs. As a PvPer, this tells me that we are an afterthought instead of a priority. Heck, we are probably not even a secondary thought.
2. Team balance - as has been stated, "random bgs" that include 5 person pre-forms are non-competitive (personal note - was in one random WSG w. 9 others against 2 X 5 person preforms, immediately following that it was AB with 2 preforms . . .).
3. Bots, bots, bots . . .

Quality of life issues - rated bgs:
1. Terrain - see above
2 . The ability of a team to manipulate the "team average rating" by bringing in alts in order to artifically lower the overall average.

1. Terrain - you know what is broken. It's been reported. PLEASE dedicate resources to this BEFORE creating new (and probably broken) bgs. As has been stated, we very much feel like second class citizens as bugs from instances and quests are fixed all the time while these long term issues get ignored.
2. Make three person or more pre-forms wait for random bg pops until other pre-forms are in que. Members of a pre-form have the ability to drop group if they want faster pops. The choice to group with others is a personal choice, not a bg requirement.
3. CONNECT arena and rated bg ratings - that way someone with a 2200 arena rating who joins a rated bg team doesn't artifically lower the team rating. It in fact assists in appropriate skill level match making.
4. Tired of the QQ re: access to PvE legendaries and bg impacts. How about addressing the issue by creating PvP legendaries that could clearly be tied to Horde v Alliance? I can think of a few examples right off the bat. Example - a shield that "contains fragments of the burned walls of Theramore"; a sword "hardened by quenching in the blood of orc prisoners"; a wand "made from the bones of a BE or NE." Heck, PvP legendaries can allow US to have impacts in PvE if we choose and would be achieveable. This would be especially true once the PvP/PvE connection becomes closer in Mists.
5. Create terrain obstacles to eliminate "the race in AV." As is, it's sincere boredom. Did one the other day where the top dps person had one killing blow and five HK. No one else had more than three HK.
6. Re: bots - where a bot has been identified and players have suffered because of it, Blizz could provide some kind of compensation. Example - when the bot has been identified, distribute IT'S non-earned honor, conquest, etc among the players that fought for it. As is, the bot benefits until caught then potentially gets banned, gear stripped, etc. Meanwhile, all of us that worked for it's gear are simply shafted.

Thank you for this discussion.
(Part 2)

# What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?

-Dispels are vastly too powerful, and I can't stress that enough. They're too cheap, too easy and too many classes have them. You tried to weaken them in Cataclysm by increasing their mana cost, and that has failed catastrophically. More needs to be done. They make much more of an impact than any one ability should for too many classes.
-There are just too many stuns and interrupts now. Casters and especially healers have been given an ever increasing number of instants, just because they can't function without them. There are other ways to increase someone's power without slapping on an interrupt or stun. Please explore some of them and consider replacing existing stuns with them. I could list dozens of examples and I'm sure you can too. I'm also sure there are technical/balance limitations with a lot of them, but I think the game would benefit greatly from some increased depth in this department.
-No more immunities, please. I mean, I would love to get one, and Warlocks are currently slated to have an optional damage immunity cooldown...but just stop with them. It's super frustrating to have every target I cycle through in a given battle go immune to me for several seconds and/or wipe all my stupid debuffs off in an instant.
-Please stop creating PvE items that create hilarious imbalances in PvP, or at the very least, ban their use in rated BGs and arenas.

# What already announced Mists PVP changes/additions are you most looking forward to? (here is a summary of what is coming: )

-Dispels having a cooldown
-New battlegrounds
-A new class to experiment with/against
-New abilities, both from new class skills and the revamped talents
-More world PvP (if they come through on this one I'll be quite pleased)

Sorry for the 2 parter. I am a word bomb, and I have exploded on this thread.
What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?

RBGs were a fun addition. Hard to setup sure, but its fine.
EOTS rock changes should be sent to random BGs too and not be limited to rated.

What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?

It is time to make AV a PvP BG already. Scale down the map, remove walls at the top of towers to allow kockback range attacks, make the field in the middle a more important part of the BG with a flag or something.

What are your top issues with Arenas in Cataclysm?

I'm still a bit sad 2s are not considered at all in the balance. I understand why, but it's still the most played bracket.
There is a point where it should be obvious some classes have a bit too much of everything... Just going to leave that here.
In general, complete lack of balance in PvP.

What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?

Feels like some classes got given an upgrade to Cata abilities while others were nerfed down to TBC level with no control whatsoever.
In general, complete lack of balance in PvP.
Mana wars don't really exists

What already announced Mists PVP changes/additions are you most looking forward to?

PvP viable in PvE. It is clear it was always a goal for Blizz to make PvE viable in PvP. But now, they must live up to their declaration and make it work the other way around. PS : Legendaries, trinkets and 2 piece PvE are ridiculous in comparison to the PvP equivalent. Stupid ridiculous, not funny ridiculous.
The talents are a good step towards more utility choices.


Dispels :
-Make class buffs undispellable
-Give certain abilities 100% dispel protection for a set amount of seconds. This could also DR for things like mages novas (ie : first nova 3 sec dispel prot; second nova 1.5; third no protection) which means you could cut the quantity of novas by half but makes the ones left reliable for DPS.
-Possibly give a 3 sec cooldown to dispels. Aggressive dispel protection (ie : UA) could then increase the cooldown of dispell to 6 seconds instead of dealing insane damage and a silence.
-Make it cost mana.....

Instant casts :
-Way too many of them. Obviously, it's a product of the amount of interrupts in the game & the burst that makes hardcasts almost unviable. Possible solutions : 15 interrupts or 3 sec lockdown or interrupts that do not land (faked) give the caster 3 secs where he can't be interrupted.
-Way too much damage via instants. Adding dispel protection to "setup" abilities could give more room to casters to hardcast when done right. If mages had less novas but novas that actually give the time for a shatter without being spammed dispelled, they'd have less (ridiculous) control of certain melee specs but more intelligent control (cant spam root, but when they root, the damage will land).

CC :
-I think it's time to eliminate the third DR to make it FULL -> HALF -> IMMUNE 15 sec

Heals & Damage ratio :
-Swaps should be viable to create pressure (bring two targets down to 50%), not to kill the target in the swap. Every game today is about hitting something and swapping instantly if it doesn't work because you never know when the chain crits will surprise a target. Spread damage to create pressure ? Ok. Spread damage because it will kill someone with RNG ? NOOOOO.

Regen & Heals for DPS :
-It was a good adjustment to bring healing up on DPS targets, but I think certain classes were left in the dark (Hunters being first) while others got ridiculous heals (rogues... obviously). I think the system should be similar to Mages & Warriors where you have to sacrifice something (mages sacrifice time on targets and possibly mana if they have to evo early; warriors sacrifice Enrage's 10% dmg and leaves himself open to Gouge, Sap and Fear all for 30% HP; Rogues gain damage from their heals and it is almost a permanent heal) to heal and it won't be amazing healing either. Rets also have ridiculous off-healing when in combat.
-SWTOR's out of combat regen is just necessary for DPS in random BGs. Maybe not arenas, but we need ways to get HP back other than running from node to node hoping to get the green leaf. Maybe not a 10 sec full HP ability, but 15-20 sec would be perfectly acceptable. Not usable in arena of course.
I'll start this off by saying that the only PvP I do is in random BGs. Arenas and RBGs are something I find incredibly frustrating and generally don't enjoy.

  • What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? (Things that are an inconvenience but don't significantly affect game play or balance)

  • I've got a lot of alts and I love playing different characters. The current resilience setup making playing PvP with a new character an incredibly frustrating experience because my options as a fresh 85 are to die or die more. Not only that my damage is a joke because I can't get better PvP weapons until scrounge up enough BG wins to hit the magical 7800 honor which is really slow going, especially when I'm undergeared.

    Going forward could blacksmiths and enchanters possibly make blue PvP weapons so that starting PvP isn't such a pain?

  • What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?

  • I hate capture the flag games, but Twin Peaks is surprisingly much less painful than WSG. I'm not sure what it is, really. I can actually bring myself to play Twin Peaks. Battle for Gilneas is also a good addition, but I prefer BGs with constant progression like AB, BfG, & EotS anyway.

  • What Cataclysm General PVP changes/additions did you like?

  • I like the increase to CP from random BGs. I feel now like I might actually get a CP piece or two now.

  • What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?

  • I hate that in some battlegrounds that I can't talk to the spirit master to change where I'm going to spawn. In AV especially I can see that I need to assist somewhere else on the map, but I'm pretty much locked in wherever I am. Am I on defense while our offense is getting pummeled? Can't do anything about it due to the enemy blockade. We could do this in Wintergrasp, why can't we do it elsewhere?

  • What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?

  • As someone who mainly heals if I have more than one person on me I pretty much have to rely on instants and nothing else which, as a paladin, means that life or death is pretty much based on lucky proc streaks. I'm really looking forward to seeing how the new interrupt paradigm is going to work out. I like the idea of a single healer being taken down by multiple DPS, not because they outdamage his healing but because they force him to use all of his mana quicker.

    ...but plz nerf Mana Burn, kk? That's not a fun way to lose mana.

    Oh, while I'm on the subject of healing I hate how absorbs are so much more effective in PvP than straight heals and HoTs. A Disc priest is pretty much impossible to burn out because their HpM is so damn high.
    - Too many classes can global anyone including some healers, while at the same time having way to much utility/survivability (hunters,rogues,mages, etc).

    - Healers insta casting heals for days and never going oom.

    -Love that RBGS were put in the game its honestly the only reason i play this game anymore.

    -Need more incentives for players to actually participate in battleground objectives and important tactics like more honor for capping/defending a base, interrupting, killing healers, honor for simply standing at a flag and defending it, stopping an opponent from capping a name a few.

    - Less opportunity for players to exploit comps/gear/talents, yeah blizz may make mistakes but we as the players sure to LOVE capitalizing on them. ( Blood dks with vengeance, pve gear)

    -my quality of life issue problem is that i have 5 fully geared pvp toons and im a team player I play what ever toon I need to help the team with that i have over 150 rbg wins and no mount I'd like to be able to earn mounts and titles like bloodthirsy just as easy as the person who only has 1 main. but that might be askin for too much. also in spirit of the war heatin up in the next expansion i would like to request and option to server change to a pvp or pve server for all toons for free. this being my very first computer game i didnt know wat pve or pvp was 6 years ago and now i have lots of toons and lots of achievements and i cant afford to transfer them all that would be $125 for my 85s alone.....also prolly too much to ask but thought id throw it out there :).

    -CCs are ok imo i hate being chained and i hate instant cc but for the most part it takes a decent amount of skill and coordination to do so but slows and roots have kinda gotten out of control.
    01/28/2012 01:20 PMPosted by Stormspellz
    What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?

    -pve gear
    -damage vs healing vs regen
    -the complete lack of timely fixes for nearly any pvp problem, mmr abuse, bg ques for horde in s9, class balance on obvious problems like frost mage mastery, vengence, ect

    PVE items in PVP:
    Allowing high end PVE weapons and trinkets in PVP has put a lot of pressure on competitive PVP'ers to get PVE in order to stay competitive. I would like to suggest that just PVE weapons and trinkets be banned from rated PVP, but still allowed in non-rated PVP. This would allow people to use and enjoy the items they have earned without creating competitive pressure on rated players.

    I would have to disagree with you on part of that comment. I agree with the fact that there are some items that are just way too overpowered in PvP; such as the Vial of Shadows (which is getting changed in the next patch), Dragonwrath, Tarecgosa's Rest, or Golad, Twilight of Aspects and Tiriosh, Nightmare of Ages. However some people much prefer the PvE aspect of the game and only do PvP as a side thing. However in order for them to start PvPing, they need to go into battlegrounds in full PvE in order to get the points to buy the PvP gear (or for that matter Tol Barad). But I agree that some form of banning certain items from PvP would help in the discrepancy between end-game PvE and Arena PvP. One such would be to not allow Legendary items into PvP (this includes all Legendaries, not just the dps ones). I still say some PvE weapons, such as Lightning Rod should be fine. Yes it's a PvE item, but the only thing going for it is the increased spell power that it has. No proc, just non-optimization for PvP stats.

    One thing that could possible change, and this kind of relates to Vial of Shadows, is to have trinket procs (whether they are shadow damage procs, nature damage procs, or even physical damage procs) to be affected by Resilience. Currently trinket procs such as Vial of Shadows are not affected by resilience, thus the reason people are running LFR, Normal or Heroic Dragon Soul is to get that item for PvP.
    01/29/2012 04:22 PMPosted by Kaivax
    I've been reading this thread closely since it started, hoping to find some aggregate points of feedback to compile and share with the WoW development team.

    I just want to make sure you guys still plan to balance lower level damage. Direct damaging classes deal way to much of it and dot classes (basically just warlocks) do too little dot damage.

    I wasnt the biggest fan of Cata bg's because it basically recycled old content on a new map. If that is something that gets done in the future again, how about updating Wintergrasp to a 40v40 battleground. Instead of capturing the relic you could fight a boss with buffs associated with the towers.

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