Cataclysm PVP Feedback

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-Things to improve: Gear- Way to easy to get. My wife and I just got to lvl 85 and we have full honor gear and a little Season 11 Cata gear in just one weekend. I feel as though the gear was handed to me. I want to feel that i accomplish something like taking down a boss in a Raid.

-BG's: SotA/AV/Isle of Conquest- Not very well planed out Bg's, its more PVE to me then actual pvp.

-Bg's from what i notice people just want to kill each other then actually playing the Battlegrounds objective. Like WSG: everyone fights in the middle, most of the people playing dont even care about getting or retrieving the flag. The part that makes me angry, The people who farm the middle get more Honor. How about if you cap or return the flag you get so so amount of honor.

-World Pvp. Does it exist? TB i love the idea, play more onto that kind of idea.

- PVP gear, Looks aweful! Try more along the lines of how Warhammer online does it. The Pali gear this season looks outstanding.

- Pvp Trees- I would like to see all the talent trees in; say the rogue trees to be even in pvp. Instead every rogue being sub. Gets boring. Spice things up please!

Things that I like:

-WSG/Twin Peaks/TP/ BoG very fun battle grounds. Wish there were some more like them.

-Balance- I think its very well balanced this season. Problems with Mana burn but nothing that could be overcomed.

- RBG's very fun love it

- Arenas. Can't complain very fun as well.

- Been playing for 6 Years now. Pvp have gone up and down but i think things are starting to get on the right track.
No more vehicles or 40-man BGS where the raid groups avoid eachother completely.
The biggest issues I have had with Cata pvp were hit on pretty well throughout the thread, but I'll mention them again.

- There's just TOO much CC. PvP is no fun when you can get silenced/interrupted/cc'd for near 30 seconds straight and not be able to do anything. Everyone has multiple cc's, half of them with no cd. Making warlocks choose between death coil, howl and shadowfury in MoP is great. Just as long as other classes are making equally hard choices about their cc, and losing some abilities that were baseline through this choice like locks are.

- There shouldn't be any PvE gear allowed in any rated PvP. I would be fine with not letting any at all in ANY kinds of PvP, rated, random or scheduled world pvp like Tol Barad. There should be a cheap full pvp armor set available from vendors to get started in and ban all PvE gear. Top of the line PvP gear could never go competitively raid the latest raid. Why should PvE heroes be able to lay the smackdown on someone in full PvP gear?

- I do like where they are going with PvP power and defense. But unless missing one piece with these stats is going to severely underpower you in pvp, there is still going to be a problem of people sacrificing one or two pieces for things like legendary weapons and OP PvE trinkets just like they did all through Cata. PvE just needs banned. These are completely separate aspects of the game, and should be treated as such whether Blizz wants to or not.

- Blizz does need to put some more effort into balancing on a 1v1 scale. The game doesn't need to be completely balanced around 1v1, but there shouldn't ever be classes/specs that can just get completely trampled by everyone 1v1 (like aff locks, especially at the beginning of cata) or be able to trounce everyone (like rogues and frost mages). There should be some classes you do well against, some that are a good match, and some that are very hard to handle. No one likes feeling like they can't do anything on their own and HAVE to be in a group to be useful.

- Matches should last longer than 30 seconds and be more about strategy than burst. This seemed to be what Blizz was going for, but healer mana needs to be addressed. Matches don't need to last for 15 minutes or longer. I think something like "battle exhaustion" should come into effect and drive up the mana cost of healing spells the longer a match goes. This will put more emphasis on good mana management and make it more important for the healers teammates to do more about preventing some damage instead of just an all out dps/cc race.
This is a fantastic thread, here's my two cents.

What I liked:
New Battlegrounds - I'm glad blizzard decided to move away from vehicular pvp, that was a good choice.
Conquest points through battleground wins - I can get my cap without doing rbg's before my arena point cap is higher than my rbg cap.

What I didn't like:

instant casting - I thought the point of casters was to cast. Things have really gotten out of hand with instant casting and moving while casting, it just doesn't feel right. An emphasis on spells such as Ice Lance, where you can theoretically play without actually casting any spells, is not a good system for casters in my opinion.

CC - There's just too much CC in the game. Certain classes that already had good CC, such
as mages, got even more. I think the number of CC effects and DR's associated with them needs to be looked at. It's not fun being chain-cc'd for 27 seconds straight.

smokebomb - This just wasn't a good idea for a spell. It has huge balancing problems, obviously.

Removal of Skirmishes - Skirmishes were a fantastic way for players who were new to arena to get some experience before getting real teammates. It also provided a way to test add ons, strategies, practice CC, etc., without risking rating. It was just a great way to pass time if your arena partners weren't online. My single greatest problem with cataclysm.

Wargames - The idea was cool, but it came at the cost of skirmishes and are extremely limited. It doesn't provide the same things that skirmishes provided, and nobody even does them. I don't think I've clicked the wargames tab more than once this entire expansion. I would much rather have skirmishes back, or an updated wargames system that can queue cross-server and allow for a soloqueue in arenas, essentially baking a skirmish system into wargames.

Balance overall - To be honest, it feels like the same specs have been strong all expansion, while a lot of specs that started weak are just that - weak. I feel like i've been killed by the exact same feral cat model all expansion, and I can't remember seeing a tree in an arena in at least a half of a year. I'm not saying that classes can't be strong, but I feel like balancing hasn't been enough, and really has been too slow. It seems like you're letting overpowered classes or specs stay that way for an entire expansion, while neglecting other specs such as Enhancement Shamans, which isn't fun.
What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? (Things that are an inconvenience but don't significantly affect game play or balance)

1) Low level PvP isn't as forgiving to new players as say, low level dungeons. As a result, players are discouraged from participating in low level PvP, and in most cases PvP altogether.

1a) Suggestions: I understand that there will be a flat 30% passive damage reduction to address the PvE problem that currently exists in PvP, while simultaneously addressing the concerns I have for low level PvP. However, even if players of all level will be taking 30% less damage, if damage output is still disproportionate, one of the major problems in low level PvP will still exist. The second issue I would mention is that certain classes obtain certain spells and abilities much sooner than others, and this creates an imbalance, thereby creating an influx of said classes in low level PvP (Hunters and Rogues are the first to come to mind).

My suggestion is dipping into balance and gameplay, but the issue itself is in somewhat of a grey area given that it's non-capped PvP.

2) There is a distinct gap in the leveling viability between PvE and PvP. The experience gain from PvP is far too low for it to be considered a desired alternative for new players.

2a) Suggestions: Create some daily quests for BGs that yield small experience and gold rewards. I believe at the PvP entrances quests for BGs already exist, you could simply make them daily quests rather than one-time only quests, and if said quests are left with the current NPCs this would also encourage travel outside of the main cities. Furthermore, with players being able to obtain experience and gold from PvP quests on a daily basis, this would assist them in leveling and acquiring some in-game income.

What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?

1) Twin Peaks is a fun addition to the Battleground family.

2) I think the change in graveyards for Warsong Gulch was an improvement.

What Cataclysm Arena changes/additions did you like?

1) No more elevator at the start of Ring of Valor.

What Cataclysm General PVP changes/additions did you like?

1) Players weren't getting killed within 1-2 global cooldowns and made encounters between players last longer (although in some cases I would say that they only half succeeded).

2) I liked the change to resilience, it becoming a flat damage reduction.

What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?

1) I can't opt out of some of them when queueing for random battlegrounds, Isle of Conquest and Strand of the Ancients comes to mind because I simply loathe vehicle PvP.

2) Incorporating battlegrounds such as Isle of Conquest in any bracket below level 85 is quite ridiculous; vehicles often 1-shot you and the boss is nigh impossible to kill.

3) I can't disable the yellow text that flashes across my screen as a result of battleground activity (Assaulted bases in Arathi Basin, for example).

4) Graveyard camping in low level PvP (I almost never see it in capped PvP).

What are your top issues with Arenas in Cataclysm?

1) The center piece in Ruins of Lorderon is far too uneven and getting stuck in a pothole is more of a nuisance than an obstacle to overcome.

2) The edge of the bridge in Blade's Edge creates line of sight issues for short races (it sounds quite humorous, I know) such as Gnomes and Goblins, whereas other races are unaffected in such a way.

3) It's often times more difficult to run off the edge of the bridge in Blade's Edge for a shorter race.

2a & 3a) Suggestions: I think the edge of the bridge in Blade's Edge is perceived by short races as more of a wall than a ledge, thus it creates line of sight issues and difficulty in mobility when trying to run off.

What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?

1) Too much crowd control, and to an extent, too much instant crowd control.

2) Too many interrupts, to the point where fake-casting actually does more harm than good.

3) The ramp up time for some DPS classes is too short (Ret Paladin, Frost DK, Sub Rogue, for example).

4) Spell pushback still existing with the proliferation of interrupts within the game.

5) Self-healing and off-healing has become far too imbalanced.

What already announced Mists PVP changes/additions are you most looking forward to?

1) Talent changes; finally all the unconventional specs that I enjoy can become viable!

2) Dispel changes.

3) PvP Power and PvP Defense.

4) Glyph decisions becoming more important.

5) Capping mana and removing mana burn.
•What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? (Things that are an inconvenience but don't significantly affect game play or balance)

My biggest issue is being forced to queue for random BGs (unless its a holiday weekend) to maximize honor gain. An ideal system imo would allow people to opt out of afew BGs from the random system, or even just let players pick 1 particular BG that they really enjoy, and putting a bonus to them playing that BG.

•What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?

I really love RBGs. Ive always been a huge fan of battlegrounds over arena, and waited a long time for you to put something like this in the game. It has its problems, but cudos to you regardless.

•What Cataclysm Arena changes/additions did you like?

I was really excited with the fact that we didnt have to run around and find certain NPCs to make teams or queue for arenas anymore. The new arena UI was very well done.

•What Cataclysm General PVP changes/additions did you like?

The change to resilience was a nice idea.

The unique art for pvp gear was great. (pally season 11 gear looks FANTASTIC imo)

•What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?

Random BG team balance is horrendous. Alot of times the outcome of games is decided by which team has more healers (if any), though as the expansion has gone on, having certain classes has also become a key to victory.

BG bots are still a major issue, and something really needs to be done about it.

Honor distribution at the end of a game needs to be looked at. The fact that a person farming kills can get bucketloads more honor than someone actually playing the objective aspect of a BG is disgusting. A system to reward players participating in objectives (more than there already is, i.e. honor bonus defending nodes in AB) would help solve this problem

Examples: Honor bonus for being in a certain range of a flag when it is captured/returned in WSG/TP, honor bonus for being near a node as its captured/defended/attacked. Even having honor penalties for spending too much time in certain areas would be welcome.


•What are your top issues with Arenas in Cataclysm?

People sitting on rating should not be allowed. There should be a rating decay system in place that forces teams to play games atleast every 2 weeks or their rating starts to drop, ramping up over time if games arent played for a long duration. Im not even in the bracket of players that this affects, but the fact that it occurs is pretty sad.

•What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?

Everything has gotten out of control. Damage, CC, healing, everything is just insane right now. Its possible to CC someone for upwards of 30 seconds straight for some teams, and its possible to drop someone in afew globals just like back in wrath. But because of that, its also possible to heal someone to full in only afew casts. The "WoW arms race" needs to be stopped, because its ruining the competitive nature of the game.

CC especially needs to be addressed. If it were up to me, all CC would share a DR, and most of it would have a decently long cooldown to boot. The fact that some teams, for example MLS, can keep someone CCd for as long as they can is just silly.

Instant ranged CC needs to removed from the game. (Ok, maybe not really, but something needs to be done about it) It takes little to no skill for some classes to completely lock down a player with CC. Examples of this would be feral druid instant cyclone, enhance shaman instant hex, hunter scatter shot and frost mage deep freeze. Keep instance CCs with the melee imo, ranged classes should have to cast.

Instant cast abilities have gotten out of control in general, especially for casters. Im not against instant damage/healing, but it shouldnt be able to put out the numbers that it can at the moment. The problem with getting rid of or toning down instants is the prevalance of interrupts in the game now. Almost every arena comp has atleast 2 interrupts, most even have 3. If youre going to tone down or remove instants, something needs to be done about interrupts.

Example: If you are struck with an interrupt but not interrupted, you are immune to silence/interrupts for X seconds.

This would really help out against teams that just mindlessly spam damage at you while they wait for you to cast (like TSG), and it would add abit more complexity to the arena scene that most competitive players prolly wouldnt mind.

Damage has also grown out of control. Sitting at about 44% damage reduction, and a frost mage can still do almost 60k damage to me in a shatter. Thats almost half my HP in one global. Couple that with all the ways players can stop you from casting and being a healer has become one major pain in the backside.

Example: DKs - You can juke their first interrupt, but then they deathgrip you to stop your next cast, silence you on the next and by them their interrupt is off cooldown and youve got a nice fat stack of necrotic strike to contend with too.

Rogues - They open with a silence, into a kidney shot, juke their kick then eat a gouge. After that they can vanish - silence/cheap shot, or hit you with a blind, or shadow dance into a silence/cheap shot.

Aside from all of that to stop you from casting a single spell, the amount of damage that can be put out WHILE theyre preventing you from casting is just insane. IMO, you should have to choose between control and damage. Not a 100% split, but you shouldnt be able to do insane damage AND control someone for 20 seconds at the same time.Im really looking forward to the upcoming changes in Mists, but im hesitant to get my hopes up because blizzard has promised a better PvP scene with every expansion and so far hasnt really ever delivered on it.
We need some REAL forum moderation for get the same 2 loudmouths in every single thread hollering that everything is fine, and everyone that doesn't agree is just stupid, to the point where no one can make a good post with valid points anymore.

I'm actually very suprised this post was able to make it off the ground.
I have only really gotten into the pvp end of things later in this expansion due to having limited time earlier on, but here's my 2 cents.

Things i liked
- Conquest from random bg wins. Very helpful when gearing a new character.
- Not having to buy a charter to create arena teams

Things I disliked
- Lack of pvp balancing between patches. There are minor changes which could be made that would many people less frustrated and make the game more enjoyable.
- Raid gear in bg's/arena. The toys are fun but they imbalance pvp
- Imbalance of CC between different classes.
I liked Rated Bgs

Disliked: Taking out Skirmish Arenas. I don't know who made that decision but it was one of the worst I have seen....
05/27/2012 01:34 PMPosted by Boombatic
We need some REAL forum moderation for get the same 2 loudmouths in every single thread hollering that everything is fine, and everyone that doesn't agree is just stupid, to the point where no one can make a good post with valid points anymore.

Totally agree. It's getting hard to even read the forums anymore.
hunters need a serious nerf below about level 50.

they get cc and excape mecanizims much better than a mage, and they dont have to stop and cast anything and still pump out massive damage.

what they need is about a 25% damage nerf and a longer cooldown on their slows.
A few of the points that stick out to me.

RBG's can be a lot of fun. It can be hard to get rating due to not having reliable groups that run consistently, but when you do get in there they are good. Pugging it is rough since you don't have a team that can work well together necessarily and not everyone knows what they are doing. Getting rating can be rewarding and I enjoy it.

The initial gearing process can be miserable. It would be nice if there was a better way to get honor since if you get a good amount of honor mostly relies on the competency of 9 other people. I spent all yesterday in Cata greens/blues trying to gear up my warrior and only got 4 pieces in 13 hours. When you have only 90k health its really hard to enjoy getting one shot by more geared players.
farming graveyards, interrupts in multiplayer combats or interrupt stacking with no way to resist or have a interrupt fail , dps self healing vs having a healing class but the inability to do dps ,{ druid cyclone has no globlal cooldown and no diminishing retruns.}. movement unbalanced between classes, conquest pts For winning teams promoting a gear imbalance rather than a honor pt system with lesser honor for losing team. Mana burn spam with no diminishing returns and no ability to resist . general imbalances in bgs with npcs placement, terrain advantages and upgrading siege machine hits points to correlate with gear improvements. would like to see starting points in bgs flipped to change perspective and goals of teams as well as the possibility of multible starting pts . mounted combat as well as combative mounts and the ability to unhorse them when a amount of damage is done to the mounted character.perhaps siege arbalist to knock flying mounts down. and a general danger to flying around in-game as well as danger to just being in the wilderness from mobs on both factions.
#1 Make multiple option maps/areas/fields for WSG!!!, and if youre competent enough all BGs need multiple fields to change it up more.

#2 Make EMFH a racial that everyone has, make it a 1min cd and at Lev40 make it x2 so that you can EMFH back to back or just 2times every min and perhaps at Lev80 give EMFHx3!!!

more brilliant ideas to come....repost if you agree please!

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