Cataclysm PVP Feedback

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Things I liked:

- The overall class balance was better, the comps varied quite a bit
- Except for a few extremely problematic examples (War S9, Rogue S11) burst was a lot better than in Wrath, and the basic flow of health bar, and variations on types of pressure was fun

Things I disliked:

- RBGs being given significantly more conquest points than arena.
- No 2300 tabards
- No skirmishes

... but mostly...

Blizzard's complete lack of priority for arena. I PvE'd for 4 years, then with Cata decided I'd had my fill with PvE and went PvP full time, since it offered a more varied and interesting challenge with a much higher skill cap. I don't really care about Mists because I'm done. Cata was a bitter pill that PvP in the game I loved, is clearly an afterthought and not worth investing my time in (yes yes, people said this, but I didn't believe them at first. Now I do).

The gripes are pretty well known by now, but for the record:

In S9, my class was ridiculously OP. Then to fix that, they ruined it. Like... made it no fun to play at all, made it massively underpowered, made it mind-numbingly simple and I've sat twiddling my thumbs for 2/3 of the expansion.

Towards the end of S9 they did almost nothing to combat the rating exploitation that was rampant, and widely reported at the top end. The lack of enforcement / consequences was a real clear signal how they view PvP vs. PvE.

Then they let that ruin S10, so much so that arena was a ghost town once people realized how pointless it was. And the worst part is that there was clearly like NO thought put into it. The consequences were pretty damn obvious, and I'm sure they did their basic simulations of the new vs. old rating system, and they just said, *meh*. We don't really care.

And then S11. The did at least listen to the outrage that another season would be ruined, and caved to the MMR reset (thank you!). However, they didn't actually do anything to address some pretty clear and glaring problems with Warriors and Restodruids (aren't the restodruids happy they bought cata? two years down the toilet), and somehow missed the fact that rogues might be OP with these ridiculous trinkets and legendaries.

It's not the gripes themselves that made me despondent. I do think Blizz needs to do a better job catching this obvious stuff before they release it... BUT... its just insulting that they are so negligent of these issues to ignore what is widely reported, well known, and undermines the integrity of the entire arena basis. It's a pretty unmistakable message to the player base.

Yes. My preferred class got the short-end of the straw, and it's probably fair to say if it didn't I might continue on to MoP (and postpone my lesson until then perhaps). But why do I want to put my time and energy into a game where the goals I set for myself are dominated completely by which part of Blizzard's class balance department was asleep at the wheel that particular month.

No thanks.
Conquest Points

Earning conquest points by running random battlegrounds was a welcomed changed. I don't like that arena and rated battlegrounds allow you to earn more CP in a week. Arena players can cap in an hour or so while those who do random battlegrounds spend a good week trying to cap. We work just as hard and deserve a CP weekly increase. I also think all PVP players should gear faster. PVP is about end game fun and when you can barely get a full set before the season ends it seems wasted. Allow us to be fully geared earlier in the season so we can be at our best against each other.

World PVP

I really miss it. I thought flying in the old world would of brought more city attacks. Dungeon finder ruined the battles over summoning stones and holiday events like Brewfest and Hallow's eve. The world outside of major cities is a like ghost town. PVP zones should offer end game resources like ore, herbs, etc with a much higher drop rate than a normal zone. Give players a reason to stay there and risk their lives for such rewards. Dailies are fun for a month then the zone is empty.

A few large problems that took way too long to fix. Some of which are STILL not fixed.
1. Frost Mages.
2. Rogues.
3. OP heals.
4. Bots.
5. Low Level PVP.
6. WSG/TP flags don't always cap when you run ontop of the mound.
7. Vengeance in PVP.
8. PVP became too team based.
What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? (Things that are an inconvenience but don't significantly affect game play or balance)

--Line of Sight. Seriously, this little issue makes and breaks some classes. You have no idea how ridiculous it is to be a hunter on Dalaran Sewers. Any competent healer should NEVER die to ranged on this map.
--Very little incentive to do Random BG's after you are geared. You spend so much time trying to get geared, once you attain this, Random BG's offer no real perks. The focus is shifted 100% to RBG's and Arenas which is unsettling.
--Deathgrip is ridiculous. Giving players the ability to move other players was a horrible decision. I don't think its overpowered in any way, it just completely ruins positioning--an entire factor in high level PvP. W
--Low Level PVP is the most atrocious thing ever. Like, its the biggest joke of any part of the game. The imbalance is in my eyes just sad. Certain classes in certain brackets aren't like enemy players, they are like raid bosses.

What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?
What Cataclysm Arena changes/additions did you like?
What Cataclysm General PVP changes/additions did you like?

--To be honest, adding new Battlegrounds and Arenas is great. But if you don't change PVP in MoP I will simply stop doing it "competitively". These are merely changes in scenery, a new BG doesn't help with horrid class balance issues and general PVP frustrations. Natural Resilience is a good thing IMO, but it depends how its integrated. When resilience is overpowered healers DOMINATE PvP. When it is underpowered, burst teams DOMINATE PvP. Finding a balance is tough, simply redesign the mechanic.

What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?

--Botting/Afkers. Blizzard has been struggling with this for a while. Reports are for problems, not epidemics.

What are your top issues with Arenas in Cataclysm?
What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?

--Control and CC. Simply put, CC in general is just out of hand. Playing against (and as) good RMP teams doesn't feel like PvP at all. While there are many things you can do to counter these teams, there is no reason for this level of CC. PvP should be about outplaying the other player, not really spamming CC to turn games into 3v1 or 3v2 fests for extended periods of time. CC should still remain in PvP, because losing it makes the game about who hits harder. The difference is, CC should never be spamable. If it remains 8 seconds, the DR needs to affect all forms of CC. As in CC immunity until that DR wears off. This would make timing and skill more important, and group comp hopefully less of an issue. Long CD abilities would obviously be immune to this and balancing would be necessary.
--MANA NEEDS TO MATTER. Outside of manaburn mechanics, mana in small scale PVP is a nonfactor. Healing needs to be mostly cast based (interuptable) and cost mana. Instant casts need to be VERY expensive since they can be used when in a pinch. But pressure should force people to eventually have to cast and risk an interupt. Since this game is balanced around 3's, healers need to be able to "heal" through 1 persons damage WHILE THEIR MANA LASTS. This is the key, good players of all DPS classes need to be able to OOM healers 1v1 with time. Right now, this is not even close to the case. Healers should not be able to keep up themselves or someone else in 2v1 situation for very long. If a healer is forced to just instant casts, they should be OOM in no more than 2 minutes.
--Damage as a whole needs to be reduced. Burst should not be a 5 second thing. It should be a 20 second thing. But to compensate healers obviously will need healing cuts. If you have to do it via a debuff every time someone is flagged so be it. With 2 DPS on a target, it needs to live a MINIMUM of 15 seconds and longer when using CD's. If it takes 30 seconds to kill someone, it needs to take 35 to heal them back up. There needs to be less full health PVP. People in arena are topped off or dead, something that is just ridiculous and (because of burst switches and overpowerful CC) is necessary. I loved the PvE healing model in heroics in 333/346's at the beginning of the expansion. Your group didn't have to sit at full health. You didn't have the mana to spam expensive heals. You largely needed to be casting on the tank (the focused target) the whole time. PVP needs to be like this.
--The other arena brackets need to matter more. 5v5 is a burst fest. 2's when it comes down to healer/dps is a draw waiting to happen. 3's is a nice medium, but I think you'll find a lot more people do 2's, while not seriously it needs more balancing. If you have to reset to PvP versions of abilities or abilities with 2 effects so be it as long as it solves the above issues.
What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? (Things that are an inconvenience but don't significantly affect game play or balance)

- Ret paladins remain the only melee spec without a snare mechanic. I have to spend tons of GCDs to unsnare myself while my target can spend all his GCDs on attacks and other fun abilities thanks to their automatically-applied snares (frost armor, poisons, and desecration to name a few).

- Dispels have been out of control this entire expansion despite efforts to increase their cost. The paladin class in particular is significantly crippled by dispels. I'm hoping Blizzard goes through with their dispel revamp in MoP.

What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?
Gilneas and Twin Peaks are both 1000x better than anything you came up with in WotLK, so good job on that. Vehicles and big bosses turn BGs into a PVE affair and that shouldn't be the main focus of a battleground. The main focus should be fighting the opposing team player to player.

What Cataclysm Arena changes/additions did you like?
I'm glad you changed the starting points for Ring of Valor.

What Cataclysm General PVP changes/additions did you like?
I love that elite PVP gear is now differently colored than regular PVP gear.

What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?
There's no balance between healers and DPS. Either there's no healers on our team or there's way too many. I wish there was a way to queue up for a particular role in BGs like you do in LFR or dungeons.

What are your top issues with Arenas in Cataclysm?
PVE gear in PVP settings.

What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?
Rogues and mages have way too much control given their high damage. It would be acceptable if their damage was low to compensate for their powerful utility, but it's incredibly high on top of it all. It's completely overkill.

What already announced Mists PVP changes/additions are you most looking forward to?
Looking forward to the new BGs, looking forward to changes regarding PVE gear in PVP settings. I'm also looking forward to a game where rogues and mages are more closely in line with other damage classes.
I'd like to see some of the race-specific resistances become meaningful.

Like a dwarf shows up and everyone knows he will resist some frost spells.
The Good:

  • Longer fights, meaning you have time to think and react.
  • Less dependence on gear. Late BC and all through Wrath, a one-tier difference could make some classes unkillable by undergeared folks. This is not the case anymore -- gear helps, but isn't the sole determining factor.
  • The ability for more casual PvPers (like myself) to actually get decent PvP gear.
  • Twin Peaks is a lot of fun.

  • The Bad:

  • Some specs have much more difficulty dealing with CC than others.
  • The implementation for rated BGs was disappointing. BGs are fun because they are unpredictable, fluid and require some strategic thinking and planning. Limiting Rated BGs to 10-man teams and basic, simplistic maps means they are more like 10-man arena than REAL BGs.
  • Balancing healers for Arena has made them too powerful in BGs and especially world PvP. The power of healers goes up exponetially the more of them there are -- 2 healers are more than twice as hard to kill than one, 3 healers are near infinitely harder to kill than just one. (Note: I hear world PvP is making a comeback. That makes this much more important.) Losing Tol Barad because a few well-geared healers can use the LoS issues of Warden's Vigil to keep an entire raid group neutralized is not fun, balanced, fair or interesting gameplay.
  • More BG maps will make make the random BG queue even more frustrating for those of us who really hate some maps (Gilneas)

  • The Ugly:

  • Tol Barad and the Battle for Gilneas are not interesting maps. These two maps are won and lost simply on the number of healers, not the ability of players to anticipate and react to the opponent's moves. More maps like Arathi Basin and Wintergrasp, fewer brainless slugfests like Gilneas please!
  • The WSG graveyard change was a real poke in the eye to anyone who doesn't play rated BGs. It sent a signal that Blizzard was OK with hurting the game experience of a large portion of their playerbase in order to improve it for a small percentage of players -- and that is not a good signal to be sending.
  • Likewise, the fact that older BGs have seen few facelifts or updates is frustrating. I've spent approximately a billion more hours in WSG or AB than I have in Firelands or Dragon Soul, and yet they get developer time to work out kinks or fix bugs. An example: an entire expansion has gone by with the 80-84 bracket of Isle of Conquest being unwinnable using the actual strategy -- since the siege engine and the bosses are so overtuned, it is easier to win the wrong way than it is to win the right way.
  • Low-level PvP is still horribly unbalanced. New players who try PvP will be scared away from Warcraft -- a bad situation.

  • Hopes for the Future:
  • Fixing low-level PvP is essential for the future of Warcraft. Fixing the poor itemization of low-level gear and bringing the low-level PvP vendors into the major cities (seriously -- what new player will ever find the Alliance WSG vendors hiding out there in Ashenvale?) is a good start.
  • The new talent trees are gooing to blow minds once they hit -- finding that weird, unexpected combination of abilities that catches everyone by surprise is going to be great.
  • The gear-scaling tech that is going into the challenge dungeeons has some amazeballs PvP applications.
  • Without a single world PvP event zone like Wintergrasp or TB, hopefully there will be PvP dailies and objectives out in the world so we can get some intra-server fightin' going on. It's fun when you see the same people fighting -- it builds relationships and rivalries.
  • What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? (Things that are an inconvenience but don't significantly affect game play or balance)
  • -- Failing to wipe the MMR early in S10 caused a lot of issues with people sitting on their rating.

    -- 2v2 has few rewards. I understand it's a balancing nightmare. If Blizzard believes it cannot be balanced enough to be "fair", then it should be retired.

    -- Understanding matchmaking rating is critical for rated battleground teams that want to venture beyond 1800 or so. Yet it's a hidden value and most players have a limited understanding of how it works. On many servers semi-competitive rated battleground teams have difficulty recruiting because players don't understand that playing in rated battleground PUGs (which lose a lot) kills your matchmaking rating. I believe a solution to this would be to make matchmaking rating visible to characters, with a tooltip somewhere explaining what matchmaking rating is and how they can work to increase it.

  • What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?
  • -- I enjoyed both Twin Peaks although it was not particularly innovative. The map is asymmetrical without giving one side a significant advantage over the other.

  • What Cataclysm Arena changes/additions did you like?
  • -- The new arena charter system.

  • What Cataclysm General PVP changes/additions did you like?
  • -- The conquest point system has worked out well.

    -- Rated battlegrounds.

  • What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?
  • -- Battle for Gilneas is not properly balanced, as most games (especially in rated BGs) involves a race to the waterworks at the start. Alliance, however, has a 3-4 second faster ride there, allowing players to peel off to intercept the Horde advance to slow their entry into the waterworks. Also, having a paladin for crusader aura has become a MUST.

    -- Once a team takes two nodes in Gilneas it has a tremendous advantage in rated BGs. Nodes can flip, but it's quite difficult for them to do so, unlike Arathi Basin which has a lot more give and take. The end effect, whether attacking or defending, is a much more boring game in Gilneas.

  • What are your top issues with Arenas in Cataclysm?
  • -- 2v2 is the unwanted stepchild of the arena system.

    -- The 2700-level achievement in 3v3. This requires that players get even higher than gladiator, which is quite difficult to begin with. This achievement would best be retired and turned into a feat of strength with a title reward instead.

  • What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?

  • -- Bots remain a major(!!) source of irritation for players, particularly when a new arena season begins and players are grinding honor.

    -- As Blizzard outlined in a previous "watercooler" entry, the rapid cooldown on interrupts has caused a cascading effect. Frequent interrupts begot frequent use of instant spells (and the enhancement of power of those instants) which begot more crowd control abilities which begot long chains of crowd control abilities which render a player incapable of action which begot more abilities (like Strength of Soul for priests) to render immunity to some control effects.

    -- PvE items (especially legendaries) are causing issues in rated battlegrounds. It's my understanding, for example, that many of the top RBG teams teams now run with a fire mage with the legendary staff in full PvE gear. Rogues with pre-legendary (and soon-to-be legendary) daggers and double PvE trinkets are causing issues as well.

    -- Racial abilities in PvP continue to be imbalanced. And +resistance racials are all but useless in PvP as most casters run with at least one piece of spell penetration gear.

    -- Tol Barad was decidedly un-fun. It remains just a giant zerg chasing each other around the battlefield.

    -- Both Horde and Alliance have adapted a pattern of avoiding combat when possible in battlegrounds as a way of getting through games faster. Both armies in Alterac Valley avoiding each other, for example. They are doing the same in Isle of Conquest now (Horde to workshop and hanger, Alliance to docks) and Arathi Basin (Alliance zergs the mill --> farm, Horde zergs blacksmith --> stable). Alterac Valley in particular is bad off. (Suggestion: don't destroy towers. Allow a general's lieutenants to respawn if a tower is recaptured by its initial owner.)

  • What already announced Mists PVP changes/additions are you most looking forward to? (here is a summary of what is coming: )
  • -- New Battlegrounds

    -- The new talent system and its unpredictability in PvP
    Problem with PvP:
    Rogues, mages, death knights, and druids. Classes that were nerfed: Warriors and restoration druids.
    All one has to do is browse the forum and read the outcry. The arena, damage dealing, warrior, and other OP threads are on fire. One class calls the other OP, the other responds with "L2P". A blue poster even said that in the first post in the arena section since who knows when. Blizzard's forum moderators think that "L2P" will solve the 70% FW on every opener, VoS, legendary daggers, frost mage damage, feral damage and survival, and death knight damage. Meanwhile druid heals were reduced to near uselessness and warriors had key abilities removed from their rotation, their damaged reduced, their utility destroyed, their only caster defensive CD increased, and have been neglected for a long time. Only until recently was their charge fixed and that was not as big of an issue as what is happening now.
    01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
    What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? (Things that are an inconvenience but don't significantly affect game play or balance)

  • Bug for flag caps, lost an Eye of the Storm today we were on 1540 and had flag at base they were on 1580. Flag wouldn't cap and they won.

    01/28/2012 12:57 PMPosted by Eldacar
    What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?

  • [li]Love Twin Peaks
  • Dislike BfG - once a team gets two bases there is not a hell of a lot you can do to break this. From a Horde perspective if we dont get 2 bases this is how the game goes -

    Alliance LH WW LH WW LH WW LH WW

    Even faking an attack doesnt work often. If you a really really lucky u might ninja cap but the bases are to close together and all you do is zerg from one to the other to the other to the other to the other.

    The change of Rez points went someway to fix things but not enough imo.

    While theres a learn to play issue its is completely out of the blue if you manage to win after losing a 2nd cap at start.

    If horde has LH and mines 1 person just stays on the hill and calls out to others where they are going from WW and we send 3-4 to protect it then we know they will go the other base.
  • 01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
    What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?

  • Line of Sight - It seems random when there is LoS or not with an object, example WSG vs Twin Peaks, shooting through the ground in WSG and AV.
  • Older BG's - Seem neglected, AV is a Zerg, SoTA is a zerg with vehicles, IoC is a zerg with vehicles. Wheres the PvP?
  • GY Change in WSG - This was just horrible implementation and not well thought out a band-aid for rated BG that severely affected lower level BG's. The explanation was horrible and the was never ever any further discussion. Try something more along the lines of the Twin Peaks idea.
  • Damage in lower level BG's - Absolutely horrible balance in low level BG's, dont even try it unless you roll a hunter or a rogue with BoA's. Even then there's a way twinks are able to make into farm levelers that costs 20g a game.
  • [
  • b]PvE to PvP? [/b]- Why should i be forced to pve to pvp, you dont force people to pvp to pve. By this i mean allowing into pvp trinkets and weapons that are way better then anything you can get by doing pvp.
  • [
  • b]EMFH[/b] - This racial while not game breaking on its own, but add in a trinkets thats OP and the racial becomes OP. Im sick of seeing 2/3 of the alliance team being human due to the free trinket slot. You nerfed the hell out of the undead racial so what gives here?
  • Opt out - Please make an opt out option for BG's so that i am not forced to do SoTA and IoC kk bye.
  • Gold for PvP - A little bit of gold would help with repairs and stuff. not top of my list but be nice.
  • Premades - Really hate getting into a BG against a fully geared premade, you really do not have a chance, its even worse when you come across one using AV enabler. What really rubs salt into the wounds is when you have no heals on your side.
  • Heals - Love getting into BG's with 0 healers vs 3 or more, unless you ahve some exceptional players geared its a waste of my time.
  • Stuns silences CC - there should be an overall DR on these on 1 player, how fun is it to be not able to respond with one thing when all you are getting is stunned CC etc. Also get rid of instant cyclones over and over.

  • My biggest pet peeves - How PvP issues are left for far to long before a fix is come up with if one is at all. Brostorm, venegence, etc etc etc all left for far to long before being nerfed.

    And lastly i really hate getting into BGS when theres no way the team can win, i have got into BG's with less then 2 seconds to go and lost. Make a timer so you cant get in if theres less then a certain time to go or theres no way the team could win with another player.

  • What I liked:
      Large health pools and lower mana regen.
      Nerfing bloodlust - too much burst in fives.
      Talents seemed more balanced across the board
      Every class had a viable pvp spec

      What I didn't like:
      Giving people 2200 weapons/armor for RBG.
      Making RBG rating easier to obtain than arena
      There are arena teams that work too well together
      PVE weapons in PVP
      The AB style flag system in battle for gilneas. Higher ratings the BG became, "zerg waterworks and if we wipe we lose the game"
      Nerfing resto druids so we became the worst healers for arena.
    I love WOW. I used to love pvp but I feel like spend most of the time CC'd. Its not fun to have zero control of your character until you die. Its unfortunate but I pretty much have written off pvp as an option for things to do at 85.

    I wish CC's could be toned down in a big way. I'm talking about something as drastic as making someone immune to being CC'd after being CC'd once. By the time diminishing returns has a chance to prevent me from being CC'd I'm already dead.
    1.What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues?
    I really don't mind to much when it comes to World Pvp, but the entire run back depending where you die and Increasingly longer rez timer for each die seem like an outdated game mechanic.

    On another note, I dislike how emotes are still allowed between the Horde and Alliance in Battlegrounds and Arena. This doesn't seem to produce anything besides more hateful feelings between two people.

    2.What Cataclysm Arena changes/additions did you like?
    I enjoy getting arena points upon winning matches instead of the next Tuesday. I also enjoy how the rating requirements were removed on all non weapon gear, this added a good amount of skill requirement into the game rather than gear.

    3.What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?
    My favorite BG in cata was Tol Barad mainly because it was the only Battle Ground to focus on Player vs. Player not, every dps and healer focus on this one Flag Carrier as with WSG and Twin Peaks. As for AB and Battle for Gilneas its either have the flag stolen while your CCed or your back is turned. To take Team Fortress 2 pvp for an example, yes part of that game involves capturing bases and flags, but there is always a battle group for people to endless charge at each other and kill them with no goal whatsoever because that is what they enjoy doing.

    4.What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?
    My main issue with Pvp in cata has been the skill to performance ratio. How well a player can perform compared to how effective their toon is in battle. Normally any small gap I don't really mind to much but with this expansion the issue has been with tank specs. This expansion mainly, they have expanded from Flag Carrying or Base Guarding to everything a typical dps spec does. Its strange to see how any player can simply spec into tank and have the effectiveness boost from their respective damage spec, to bring a dps down. Please address these concerns in MoP using BC,Wrath as an example.
    Biggest problems with PvP in Cata:

    I have to agree with the above statements about AV, IoC, SoTA, and just about every BG with capture points. People just zerg around and it's painfully boring. If you stay and defend you're going to get crushed. And since no one has a reason to defend points get captured.

    What I liked:

    Well... It made me play several classes that I started but never finished so I could keep up with the Flavor of the Month/Expansion feel. I guess that's a good thing.

    What I'd like to see changed:

    Warrior love? Please? I just finished picking my teeth up off the ground because someone threw a pillow at me.
    What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? (Things that are an inconvenience but don't significantly affect game play or balance)

    Gearing up costs gold, but unlike in PVE, you can't make money (or random loot) from PvP. It would be great if random loot bags (e.g. like those from completing random dungeons) were given to the winning team, and everyone could use a little gold. I understand it would need to be balanced, since you can't lose much money in PvP either (repair costs).

    Some of the details in older BGs (AV, AB, WSG primarily) could be updated to bring them up with the graphical quality of new ones like gilneas and twin peaks.

    Music - Sometimes I like to turn on music in the game, because some of it is good (especially in instances and raids). Music in PvP, however, generally only has 1-2 tracks, and both are repetitive and not that pleasing to listen to.

    What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?

    Rated BGs - this is a great way to allow people to be competitive when they want, or to be relaxed when they don't.

    Conquest vs. Honor points - I think, by the current point in the expansion, honor point acquisition is at a good pace (not too quick, but not too grindy either). Conquest points prioritize competitive PvP (arenas, rbgs), but the acquisition rate from random BGs feels appropriate too.

    What Cataclysm General PVP changes/additions did you like?

    Improved ability for all classes/specs to go 1v1 (obviously, there are still issues, but I think it has improved since WotLK) - while I don't claim that every class should have an equal chance against all other classes, if one class cannot ever reasonably kill another specific class, it is very frustrating.

    What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?

    Line-of-sight obstacles for BGs, similar to the pillars in arenas. It feels really sloppy, for example, that ranged attacks shoot classes through the massive tree stumps in WSG - and I feel bad when I abuse those tree stumps by shooting people who may not see me as I hide behind them.

    WSG graveyard - while I understand it was lowered so that you couldn't too easily spawn in your base for flag defense, it now results in graveyard camping, since the gy is now within the range of ranged attacks. This can occasionally get so bad (especially at low levels) that people just refuse to rez after dying. Obviously, this is very not-fun.

    Many people complain about some BGs not being fun, but being honor grinds (e.g. IoC, AV, SotA). I think there is potential for a new type of BG or world PvP system which allows tactical, long-term, large scale battles. Like a wintergrasp battle (or the much-coveted old style AV), but instead of occurring every 2.5 hours, it never ends. While players could get honor from this, and other rewards, I think the focus should be on the gameplay, and with a smaller reward - this will encourage PvP rather than "what will get me the most honor per hour?".

    What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?

    Class specs vs. PvP - not all specs are viable in PvP. This can be discouraging if you can't play the way you want to.

    CC - crowd control presents a lot of depth, but balancing is difficult. And being unable to act (silenced/stunned/rooted) from 100-0 is never fun. I don't have any suggestions to fix this, because I understand that CC can be fun and tactical, and is very tricky to balance.

    PvP roles - I think this area could still use some work. In PvE, roles are well defined - healer, dps, tank. PvP only has two roles - healer and dps. But classes still have tanking specs. It would be great if the tanking trees could be implemented into PvP, for example (flag carriers in BGs is a good start, but not sufficient to justify an entire role).

    What already announced Mists PVP changes/additions are you most looking forward to? (here is a summary of what is coming: )

        I think the talent system revision may go a long ways in making all specs "PvP viable".

        New BGs are always welcome.
    I would like to see honor from kills increased and honor/conquest from completing random BGs lowered, for three reasons:
    - Bots become less effective if they have to participate in killing enemy players.
    - Increased honor from kills incentivizes world PvP
    - Increased honor from kills with reduced compensation at the end of a random BG incentivizes continuing to fight, to strive, to engage in PvP combat, as opposed to "let them win" so malcontents can re-queue.
    However, please find a balance that doesn't return us to the frustration of pre-Cata honor grinding.

    On the topic of balance (with respect to changing something, not necessarily classes), a recurring theme throughout several aspects of WoW has been that when something is nerfed, it is nerfed too far(and for too long). An example from a PvP standpoint would be Mortal Strike effects - it was too powerful, so it was nerfed to uselessness for two entire seasons. Fan of Knives was too strong in PvP - it is now useless in PvE, unless you are Mute. City guards provided no deterrent to world PVP, so they were made so powerful that it almost completely discouraged world PVP. What I'm trying to say is, when you nerf something, please try bringing it down to reasonable levels instead of making it useless (I could give other examples of this occurring through many aspects of the game, but this is a PvP thread). Instead of opposite ends of a spectrum, try bringing the slider down halfway first. If there's only one thing that you take away from this post, please, let it be this. Moderation in all things!

    I like the Cataclysm BGs and am very excited about the new styles proposed for Mists. Some small BG Quality of Life changes: ground clutter in Gilneas that the player can get stuck on, that is not easily distinguishable from the ground. Please remove it or make it more easy to distinguish from the ground. Obstacles in Warsong Gulch (trees) don't provide Line of Sight - obstacles in its mirror BG, Twin Peaks, do. Please make this consistent. Increase PvP incentive in Alterac Valley - it is currently "take the two end towers then kill the boss."

    Bots are too prevalent and the "report player away" is a very, very weak deterrent; you can get stuck indefinitely with a bot/bots if they auto-follow their teammates into battle or if an enemy player decides to camp your graveyard.

    Many classes are too susceptible to chain-CC, while others have too much non-diminishing CC at their disposal.

    I'm excited about resilience becoming a base stat and not having to choose between this expansion's PVE gear and last expansion's PVP gear at the start of the expansion. However, as others have stated, resilience scaling became less effective the longer the season went on.

    PVP imbalances take a long time to be corrected.

    Even if the game is not balanced around 1v1 (we hear it all the time), is that an excuse for, say, a Shadow Priest to be a free kill to a Warrior, or a Moonkin to be a free kill to a Rogue, or for a Retribution Paladin to be a free kill to a Fire Mage? If two players are equally skilled and geared, why are the outcomes of some match-ups all but foretold before the fight begins?

    Please bring back arena skirmishes for practice.

    While it's nice that no-flying until max level is being implemented, this ignores the fact that most PVP will inevitably occur at max level, and that it makes non-max-level characters even more susceptible to being camped by people who can fly. It's a step in the right direction, but not enough.

    I'd like to see durations removed from BGs, with the exception of Strand of the Ancients, and a removal of the "last cap wins" rule.

    One more edit: please let there be some form of income from PVP.


  • What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? (Things that are an inconvenience but don't significantly affect game play or balance)

  • Lack of timely fixes for pvp related issues (rbg queues and mmr). I would also like built in timers for battlegrounds.

  • What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?

  • I love Twin Peaks and Gilneas. Very similar to their older counterparts but just as fun.

  • What Cataclysm Arena changes/additions did you like?

  • Changing how resilience worked was nice. I guess the countdown is cool too but other than that not much.

  • What Cataclysm General PVP changes/additions did you like?

  • Tol Barad was pretty cool but it took forever for it to be balanced.

  • What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?

  • Not a fan of vehicle maps.
    Would prefer to be able to pick a few maps to not get in randoms.
    Random BGs should have a better queue system to at least put a few healers into them. I often get 1 or none and it is incredibly frustrating.
    Resilience cap is encouraging the use of pve gear.
    Pve gear shouldn't be better than pvp gear.
    There shouldn't be a difference in ilvl between pve and pvp gear, aka add multiple tiers of pvp gear.

  • What are your top issues with Arenas in Cataclysm?

  • Again, pve gear needs to go.
    Dispels need to be revisited (but you said you were doing that). Dispels neuter some specs unless they play with a UA lock. Dispels shouldn't be spammable.
    Too much instead cc and too many interrupts. Interrupts need a longer cooldown (you were looking at this also)

  • What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?

  • Mostly pve gear. I would like to see world pvp encouraged more.

    [li]What already announced Mists PVP changes/additions are you most looking forward to?

    With few blue posts on the subject, I am most looking forward to the making pvp gear to be the best for pvp.
    What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? (Things that are an inconvenience but don't significantly affect game play or balance)

    That you're forced to queue for Random BG instead of a BG you feel like playing that day. The old mark/turn in system was really nice. Could just feel like doing a BG all day and do it.

    I understand why Random BG exists. I just think some kind of freedom should be allowed. Maybe you can queue for any BG you want for the daily, then have to random BG after that (Unless it's call to arms obviously).

    What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?

    The only thing I am really happy blizz went through with was the conquest point change. This was brilliant.

    What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?

    Twin Peaks and Gilneas take up two BG weekends. Some people actually enjoy doing WSG and AB on their weekends for the extra rep. Twin Peaks and Gilneas are basically copies of other BG's without the rep. They take up valuable space.

    The more BG's you add the less and less I'm going to be able to enjoy WSG and AB weekend. Justicar is already painful enough to get as it is.

    What are your top issues with Arenas in Cataclysm?

    Burst is too high and healers heal for way too much. Burst needs to be toned down, consistent damage needs to go up, and healers need to heal for less. Restoration Shamans especially. That's about it really IMO.

    What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?

    Resil seems to stop doing anything after you hit about 4k. Hunters still Chimera shot you for over 30k+ even with 5k resil. Resil should be a core stat. Maybe the soft cap should be eased?

    What already announced Mists PVP changes/additions are you most looking forward to? (here is a summary of what is coming

    World PVP being enforced. What could be better XD

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