Glyph Inscription Leveling

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There has been quite a bit of honest and reasonable feedback. I appreciate all of you for sharing and for being patient while I worked to follow-up with the developers for more information.

Back in May of 2010, we began tossing around ideas about how to improve Inscription. But at that time, Mists of Pandaria was still in the early stages of character talent development. As that was hashed out, it directly affected how we were then able to approach potential Inscription and glyph changes. As a matter of fact, at one point during the discussions, glyphs were going to be removed altogether. That then evolved into the idea of Prime glyphs being removed, Major glyphs being adjusted such that their added bonuses did not affect talents, and Minor glyphs being revamped so they felt more interesting.

Have no fear, I have been assured that Inscription and glyph discovery are being actively discussed in preparation for upcoming changes with Mists of Pandaria. This comes with one albeit relieving caveat: Glyphs that are now learned solely through the Book of Glyph Mastery are planned to be available through the Northrend and Minor research dailies.
02/03/2012 06:34 PMPosted by Crithto
Glyphs that are now learned solely through the Book of Glyph Mastery are planned to be available through the Northrend and Minor research dailies.


Any approximations of how soon™? Before MoP? MoP launch?

"changes with Mists of Pandaria." oh... :s

*At the very least, the stand-in solution (until MoP) could be to make them VP/JP/Honor trade vendor items, like other professions have been given. This would help when your realm's faction population doesn't have the numbers to keep an active supply on it's own AH.
02/03/2012 06:34 PMPosted by Crithto
Glyphs that are now learned solely through the Book of Glyph Mastery are planned to be available through the Northrend and Minor research dailies.

Déjà vu.

I'll wait to see what MoP comes in store for Inscription. The profession has so much potential, but through all of Cata it felt a bit neglected with the Books issue and how relics and Darkmoon decks became obsolete with time (mostly the relics; some decks still do OK as starter trinkets for some fresh 85 characters).
Cataclysm came out in December of 2010 (December 7th, I believe.) According to your post, this means that for 6 up to months ideas were being discussed on how to improve inscription before the release of Cataclysm.

Cataclysm has now been out for 14 months, and ideas/discussions are still ongoing. However, now it is no longer necessarily, "how do we improve Inscription," but instead it's, "what to do with Inscription in MoP." What this tells me is that an entire expansion is going to pass and no action has been taken.

I think that WoW developers would be one of the first ones to admit that while not every idea pans out to be a good idea, or is worth keeping around; however, how are you to know if you're going in the wrong direction if you simply take no direction at all? I don't think that there is a reasonable excuse as to why nothing has been done in the way of Inscription after 20 months of discussions. Worse yet, after 20 months of discussions there are nothing but further reassurances that "Inscription and glyph discovery are being actively discussed in preparation for upcoming changes with Mists of Pandaria."

It's not as if Inscription is a highly rewarding profession. It's only bonus is that it means you don't have to grind rep for shoulder enchants; and the rep grind for these shoulder enchants is about as easy as any rep grind gets. Unless you play the AH, you really don't get anything out of Inscription, because herbing/milling is perhaps the most mind numbing thing in the game. With relics being removed in MoP, it just further reduces Inscription (and devastates the early expansion money making opportunities.)

I'm not trying to be rude or confrontational in my post, I'm simply pointing out the fact that there is no excuse to this lack of action, and someone should take responsibility for it. There is no reason for an entire profession to be completely neglected for the entirety of an expansion.
02/03/2012 06:34 PMPosted by Crithto
Glyphs that are now learned solely through the Book of Glyph Mastery are planned to be available through the Northrend and Minor research dailies.


Why don't you just update the research to use current materials rather then once we get to MoP we have to go back two expansions in order to obtain glyphs that have immediate value....glyphs are not old armor or weapons that have inferior stats....these are useful and needed no matter what lvl.
sure but when? I mean we are already in the LAST patch and this was addressed at the start of the expansion... people made fortunes selling that book for 500 to 1000g. Wasted hours in instances they do not need anything from to pick up a book that is from the last expansion.

(edit)

Nvm it will be in MoP.. welp might as well waste hours in old instances farming those books and selling them to get me some gold...

hey I m a goblin... time is money!
It's good to hear that they will be dealing with the book of glyph mastery problem but disappointing that it won't be until MoP.
My question is, what are we going to get for all the gold and time we spent leveling Inscription if they end up removing it. It had better be something nice!

And please make these books drop, not just in Cata zones but in ALL zones. This way while you're leveling alts they could find them and send them to our inscriptionists!
The point is to get rid of the books entirely. Unfortunately we have to wait for that to happen. I have an inscriptionist on another server who will never get all the recipes until MoP. And many of the book of mastery recipes are basic, essential glyphs. That Blizzard has waited all the way through Cata to fix this is sort of amazing.
02/03/2012 08:20 PMPosted by Ganon
Glyphs that are now learned solely through the Book of Glyph Mastery are planned to be available through the Northrend and Minor research dailies.


Why don't you just update the research to use current materials rather then once we get to MoP we have to go back two expansions in order to obtain glyphs that have immediate value....glyphs are not old armor or weapons that have inferior stats....these are useful and needed no matter what lvl.


I think that's what ink trading is for. When I researched the glyphs for Northrend and Minor Research glyphs on my scribe, I just traded blackfallow ink for the inks needed for the research.
personally with inscript what i would love to see is something like adding effects to ur shoulders, helm or even weapons. weapons probably not so much do to the effects added by ench. for example inscripton of the flame would add a firey effect to your shoulders. this adds the much needed reason for inscript to exist. each tier gives other proffesions new crafting items. so as players progress they might want the new effects added to their new gear
02/01/2012 04:11 PMPosted by Solvaran
I think your system for jewelcrafting is the best recipe system thus far. I wish every profession had a daily that bestowed tokens.


Totally agree on this. When I'm on my JC, it is night and day more pleasant that inscripting/leatherworking/blacksmithing/etc. And that's not including the gold that jc makes.... just the access to learn what is relevant to what you want.



You guys have obviously never tried to do jewelcrafting. Do you know how many days of dailies you would be required to do to get every recipe from the trainer? OVER A YEAR!!!!! One measly token a day, when a recipe costs between 3-5, not to mention replacing your JC gems (Chimera's) at a token each every time you get new gear.... I seriously gave up and hardly even do my dailies any more. I have 2 max JC's, and wish I could just go farm leather or even freaking shards to buy my recipies with...at least then I'm only limited by the amount of time I want to spend farming the mats to buy them woith..and can do it all one day a week if I want!
02/03/2012 06:34 PMPosted by Crithto
Major glyphs being adjusted such that their added bonuses did not affect talents, and Minor glyphs being revamped so they felt more interesting.


Crithto-

If I could add something to this discussion, about this quote specifically: I would love to see minor glyphs updated to be more interesting!

I have literally one of every class, many 85, but recently began leveling a warrior (a lot of fun!).

I have found that far and away Warrior glyphs are the most interesting across the spectrum. Most of my main's glyphs are increased crit by 5% here, increased damage 5% there, etc. But truly I think Warriors have very good and interesting glyphs. Faster charge? Longer range? Longer stun? Some things buff your self-heals, while some give you longer opportunities to use them.

I have to say that I have not had a harder time selecting Major and Minor glyphs more than on my warrior, and honestly, I love that about them.

I'd love to see some (for my pally for example) that give me another second on Infusion of Light or change the spell to make it instant but cost 100% more mana. Fun glyphs like these suggestions (i.e., many of the warrior glyphs) make the glyph mini-game and selection very fun and, indeed, as GC would be comforted to hear, meaningful.

Please when you take the feedback to the devs, have them look long and hard at the variety of Warrior glyphs and add some of that spice and flavor to the other classes!
02/03/2012 04:16 PMPosted by Bomdanil
Furthermore there is no point lobbying for changers, it's scarcity giving glyph value.


The problem is that a few servers (like mine) don't have a scarcity problem. Trust me, if I was the only one with all 54 glyphs I'd be happier than anything, but there's about 15 other scribes on Scarlet and the undercutting is so bad you get more from selling the ink than you would from selling glyphs.


Since your server have an oversupply issue, why would anyone wanna buy Book of Glyph Mastery when ROCE is 0? Won't it be better to buy the glyph required, then take your chance with RNG? Thus what the point of lobbying?

02/03/2012 06:34 PMPosted by Crithto
Glyphs that are now learned solely through the Book of Glyph Mastery are planned to be available through the Northrend and Minor research dailies.
You should also open up Glyph Mastery books to allow the Scribe to learn any glyph (including Research ones).

I think that's fair — cheap, methodical dilettantes (like me) can learn at the steady and inexpensive pace of 1 glyph / day. While someone who just wants to get it over with and has the funds can hemorrhage out gold for all the books they can eat.

It'd be similar to the Dailies vs. Titanium Powder of WOTLK (a system I think worked well), and allow Mastery books to keep their valuable status without being obnoxious like they are currently.

why would anyone wanna buy Book of Glyph Mastery when ROCE is 0?
OCD.
02/03/2012 11:52 PMPosted by Viridis


Totally agree on this. When I'm on my JC, it is night and day more pleasant that inscripting/leatherworking/blacksmithing/etc. And that's not including the gold that jc makes.... just the access to learn what is relevant to what you want.



You guys have obviously never tried to do jewelcrafting. Do you know how many days of dailies you would be required to do to get every recipe from the trainer? OVER A YEAR!!!!! One measly token a day, when a recipe costs between 3-5, not to mention replacing your JC gems (Chimera's) at a token each every time you get new gear.... I seriously gave up and hardly even do my dailies any more. I have 2 max JC's, and wish I could just go farm leather or even freaking shards to buy my recipies with...at least then I'm only limited by the amount of time I want to spend farming the mats to buy them woith..and can do it all one day a week if I want!
I've leveled JC. It's an entirely different issue. Of course it takes a while to get JC recipes but many of them no would want anyway. And you CAN get them by doing one quest per day. With the books of mastery you would have to run 100s of Northrend dungeons. I've been leveling several horde toons that are now doing Northrend dungeons. I've seen two books of mastery drops in the dozens of Northrend dungeons I've run. Getting the books is just not practical.
02/03/2012 11:52 PMPosted by Viridis


Totally agree on this. When I'm on my JC, it is night and day more pleasant that inscripting/leatherworking/blacksmithing/etc. And that's not including the gold that jc makes.... just the access to learn what is relevant to what you want.



You guys have obviously never tried to do jewelcrafting. Do you know how many days of dailies you would be required to do to get every recipe from the trainer? OVER A YEAR!!!!! One measly token a day, when a recipe costs between 3-5, not to mention replacing your JC gems (Chimera's) at a token each every time you get new gear.... I seriously gave up and hardly even do my dailies any more. I have 2 max JC's, and wish I could just go farm leather or even freaking shards to buy my recipies with...at least then I'm only limited by the amount of time I want to spend farming the mats to buy them woith..and can do it all one day a week if I want!


Yeah, totally have done max JC (on two toons, horde/ally). Buying relevant gems is what is key, not buying every one, i.e. +40 AGI/STR/INT, then +20 versions of those with whatever sencondary stat is relevant to your main/alts/guild/AH, as well as some resil gems. And that's about it. As opposed to learning stuff at random (incscript/alchy... I don't even bother with the research on alchy, usually don't care) or at the mercy of random drops in zones very few people are in any more (inscript). Being able to do (easy!) quests to pick from a menu of items that you want is vastly, vastly superior to random/rare drops.
How do you improve Inscription?

1) Do NOT go the route of the RNG across the board. For the love of Little Green Apples, DON'T GO THERE.

2) You mentioned the issues with Prime and Major glyphs? Change the glyph structure.

    a. 1 Prime Glyph that lives in the center

    b. 3 Major Glyphs that provide meaningful adjustments to spells.

    c. 5 Minor Glyphs that provide quality of life adjustments.


3) Prime glyphs should be a reproduction of a prior tier set bonus (such as proccing a little add that helps you out, adds a smart heal, etc.) These glyphs should be treated like enchants. You can't permanently learn them. Scribes have to acquire the recipe either by purchasing from vendor (blue quality or 2-iece style) or drops in raids (purple quality 4-piece style). This would give Scribes something meaningful to sell on the AH and gives the player a really awesome glyph.

4) Scribes should be able to create shoulder and head enchants for sale on the AH. There should be green, blue and purple quality inscriptions as well as pvp ones. You have a bloody profession called "Inscription" why WOULDN'T you have Head and Shoulder INSCRIPTIONS be a part of what an "INSCRIPTIONIST" does?!? Once you made glyphs perma-learn, why WOULDN'T you add sellable shoulder inscriptions?

5) You need to add more non-glyph craftables - trinkets, off-hands, etc. Raid-quality versions should be boss drops.

6) You need to add more silly craftables (kind of like the kinds of things you get from Archaeology or the Molten Front dailies)

7) Kara-style book buffs - let us make those books that add a little something-something like the books did in Kara.

8) Make some environment books proc a Book of Glyph Mastery. Make Scribes spend hours in Libraries clicking books to find one. >.> Set it up like the Higher Leaning books if you want to make it challenging so the proc location changes every time someone finds a book that procs a Glyph Mastery Book.

Anyway, that's my two cents.
02/03/2012 11:52 PMPosted by Viridis
You guys have obviously never tried to do jewelcrafting. Do you know how many days of dailies you would be required to do to get every recipe from the trainer? OVER A YEAR!!!!! One measly token a day, when a recipe costs between 3-5, not to mention replacing your JC gems (Chimera's) at a token each every time you get new gear.... I seriously gave up and hardly even do my dailies any more. I have 2 max JC's, and wish I could just go farm leather or even freaking shards to buy my recipies with...at least then I'm only limited by the amount of time I want to spend farming the mats to buy them woith..and can do it all one day a week if I want!

JC dailies are not even close to the issue that Books were for Inscription through Cata. JC dailies are short and easy to do, and the market is built up by the holy trinity of Brilliant, Bold and Delicate rubies, followed by minor Ember Topaz cuts and other color cuts. Need a cut you are missing? Just do dailies for 3/5 days and get said cut without issues.

There are currently 10 classes in the game, 30 specs in total, 31 if you consider Cat vs Bear, and each requires different Prime glyphs and Major glyphs. This makes the Inscription market much much wider than the JC market, and usually with less competition. For new scribes, the RNG of the Research features and the low supply of glyphs make it much more tedious and expensive to get at least half of the profitable glyphs.

02/04/2012 07:34 AMPosted by Atanae
6) You need to add more silly craftables (kind of like the kinds of things you get from Archaeology or the Molten Front dailies)

I love my origami slimes. I wish there were many more origami items added! :(
02/03/2012 06:34 PMPosted by Crithto
Glyphs that are now learned solely through the Book of Glyph Mastery are planned to be available through the Northrend and Minor research dailies.


If inscription survives, and if this turns out to be reality, please add to/from portals between all major cities and Dalaran. (this would also be helpful for fishing, cooking, and jc dailies)
This is the 4th thread I've commented on where the blues are solving our Cataclysm problems with Mists solutions.

I don't care how awesome Mists is going to be or how your development is going.

I want expansion N to be awesome. I don't want to hear about how all my problems go away in expansion N+1.

If I was a dungeon master and all I talked about was how my next campaign is so much more awesome than the current one, my friends would stop playing the current one.
If I was a store and all I talked about was how my next sale is so much more awesome than the current one, people wouldn't care about the current sale.
If I was a tv series and I was advertising how awesome season 2 would be while season 1 was still in progress, how could you expect people to care about season 1?

Stop selling us Mists. It's fine that your major development effort is over for Cataclysm, but stop telling us our problems will go away with how awesome expansion N+1 is going to be.

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