February 15 Update to Mists Talent Calculator

General Discussion
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Nope, please get away from this stupid idea of only 6 talent spots instead of the current 41-point talent trees. This new idea is wrong and isn't going to create much more for variety than what you have already.

Please stop it with this idea of making alot of the current talents Passive/Trainable or something you get as you choose a specialization. That is not a good idea at all. People should have to exercise their brain in deciding and wanting to take those talents instead of them being handed to them on the silver platter that is your cheap trainers.

Stick with your current 41-point talent trees and maybe try to put your DEV's team to working on revamping or fixing those instead. This new system looks absolutely ridiculous and dumbed down. No, it is not an idea in the right direction at all. I'll bet all my gold it ends up being an absolute mess in the end when this horrible idea for an xpac comes out.

Just last night I made a post on the Mists Forum of EVERYTHING that sounds completely wrong with what you're going to be doing with this new xpac. Go read it, Blizzard. It is a post I made for you, not for trolls or other people to refute me and call me an idiot when I know EVERYTHING I'm talking about and am looking ahead to the game's future. Particularly your big switch in your target audience. Time for me to officially grow up and move on, or just adopt a PS3 and play consoles anonymously and forget about being a professional mage.

P.S. Don't go through with these Talents. Just fix or modify what you currently have to work with.

You do realize that you get more spells then just the ones your picking on that new talent tree right go look at the little menu on the left and click all for the spec that you play the new talents are added ablities its much diffrent then the current forced talents that for the most part you need to play the class, people havent had a true choice on there talents ever get over it.
Explain Void Shift for priest.

The tooltip has no timer (Last for X secs) yet says 'when it ends' you are healed for 25% of your HP'

Ex. If a tank dips to 10% on Baleroc decimating blade...a priest could swap his HP% with the tank. So tank goes to 100% and healer 10%.....when this effect ends (however long its supposed to last) what happens? Does the priest go back to 100% and the tank 10%. Or does the tank stay at 100% and the priest goes to 35% (25% max HP heal) or 12.5% (25% of current HP which is 10%, so 2.5% = 12,5)
Hey Kaivax, can you tell me what happened to the warrior talent that was in the last build of the talent calc, "Criple" that made your rend ticks and normal melee swings slow the targets movement speed by 50%?
Wow lots of nice updates

Pursuit of justice - one of my fav spells , now even better since you should always be generating HP

Burden of guilt - very nice we finally get a slow

Exorcism - Instant cast woot

Jud - Has a nice effect now hope they keep this"increase physical damage 4%".Not easy to get this raid buff for 10 mans

Hammer of the righteous - Will be awsome no more seal swapping just for trash

Only downer was really the Divine storm -3hp use again & the LVL75) talents we use all three right now, So now we have to choose one not sure why they did this .....PVP Burst maybe ? I really hate losing spells due to pvp

Overall I like most of the changes and much much more that I didn't mention =D

My apologies for double-posting, but I'm really excited and don't understand how this potentially life-changing detail is being overlooked!

Holy Insight, passive level 10 Holy Pally talent implies that Holy Paladins won't get their mana increase from Int. Is that a change to how Int works or is Int plate gone?

Second Concern: The Level 60 Tier

Force of nature is clearly DPS oriented so we will exclude it for resto druids. That leaves us with 2 choices.

You shouldn't assume that Force of Nature is clearly DPS oriented.

I keep reading a lot of posts where players are thinking each talent level has to apply to a very specific part of the game. Be more open minded!
My apologies for double-posting, but I'm really excited and don't understand how this potentially life-changing detail is being overlooked!

Holy Insight, passive level 10 Holy Pally talent implies that Holy Paladins won't get their mana increase from Int. Is that a change to how Int works or is Int plate gone?

Intellect will no longer increase mana pool size.

Paladins, due to prot and ret, will likely have tiny mana pools like today.
Woo! Shurrikan Toss! Thank you Blizzard! I was very disapointed to hear that thrown weapons were going out the window. Sure we don't get much use out of them outside of deadly throw and FoK, and the occasional throw against critters, but from an RP perspective I've always loved thrown weapons. It's going to be hard for me not to spec into deadly throw and shurrikan throw now, so I can dish out some thrown damage when i have to get away from a boss, or I'm getting kited in pvp.
they brought back Seal of Command
Just need seal of the crusader back lol
Question: Why didn’t the priest tree change?
Answer: We are still in development. It is a challenge, when giving players a sneak peak at work in progress, to decide when to release what we have versus waiting to accumulate even more changes.

Q: Do Discipline priests have Prayer of Healing or not?
A: Our current design direction is this: Holy does AE healing with Prayer of Healing, and Discipline heals with (a much more powerful than today) Holy Nova. Divine Aegis would work with Holy Nova under this model. However, please see the question above. The priest tree is still in heavy development.
I would love to see the monk calculator please. I really like the warlock talents. It seems that the priest talents did not get much attention. Nothing really changed to be honest. The levitate speed talent is not a good idea as any damage will remove it. I would request that you go through the priest talents and bring some life back into them.


The talent "Predatory swiftness" says combo points have an X% of making something an instant cast. I'm not sure if that means your reducing it form what it originally is, if so that is concerning because then it would basically be an RNG proc and that type of proc can't really work as RNG.

Also it looks like you guys changed displacement beast, if i remember correctly it used to teleport you then stealth and KEEP you in stealth for 20 seconds? Now it teleports you and just gives you stealth, which is no good cause we have no cloak or anything like rogues do. Atleast rogues get a 2/3 second grace period with vanish before damage breaks them back out. Atleast let us have that even if it is 2/3 seconds, otherwise its basically a blink on 3min. because just about every class has some sort of DoT nowadays.

Also, "might of ursoc" I'm asuming thats similiar to the warrior shout that gives you 20% HP for 20 seconds and dissapears? Sounds good, especially for "oh crap" situations.

"Soul of forest" talent in the 60 tier, the feral and guardian perks for that seem a bit low.

I really like how we get some cool stuff like rogues do, AKA displacement beast(vanish), soul forest (energy after finishing moves) However they are all worse then the rogue ones IMO.

i like the "mighty bash" added in, it's more of a harder choice than bearhug

EDIT: Sorry I have a 85 feral druid he wasnt selected when i posted
Mage Trees

I do like the improvement to the tree. The last tier is quite unexpected but I like them, nonetheless.

A few things though. Why do the armors now have a 3 second cast time? I really enjoyed the current versatility of mages being able to armor switch at a moment's notice, depending on the situation and who they are facing (more PvP-oriented question). With such a long cast time, this is no longer feasible, removing a unique aspect of the class.

Also, fingers of frost definitely got nerfed, only being able to be generated in 2 ways (unless Pet Freeze is auto talented, but regardless), no longer through casted chilling effects and brainfreeze similarly, only generated if a bomb is in place. This limits the usefulness of frost's mastery significantly, since it only applies when something is frozen (breaks so easily through other people's damage, aside from deep freeze).

With regards to the bombs, Frost Bomb is the odd man out, requiring not only a 1.5 second cast time, but another wait period of 6 seconds (depending on haste) before anything at all occurs (easily negated by a dispel for that 7.5s effort). Please balance the three a bit more, or allow damage on the primary target to be dealt over time during those 6 seconds, as you are limited to one Frost Bomb anyway (Living Bomb has a limit of 3 and Arcane does not appear to have a limit). Or make it instant cast like the rest (the other two already look much better, even with such a change).

In the first iteration of the tree... Arcane blast was a 2 second cast and Fireball/Frostbolt were both 1.5s cast, finally making Fireball a viable pvp nuke... Why the change back to 2.5s for Fireball and 2.0s to Frostbolt? Returning both of those spells to 1.5s would allow fire to use their main nuke in pvp and for Frost to alleviate some of its LoS-problems (especially since Frostbolt is mainly the only method to generate FoF) in pvp. Please reconsider.

Finally, looking at all three trees, Frost appears the least like a control tree than the other two. It lacks one less control ability than arcane (slow) and fire (dragon's breath), especially now that Improved Cone of Cold is gone. Nor does it have greater survivability over the other two specs, now that Ice Barrier is baseline in the tree. Another root/freeze would not be appealing at this point, but maybe something like being able to generate a column of ice (to LoS others) or to propel yourself/people (like in Ring of Valor pillars) would be nice. Anyway, something... And the pet freeze doesn't really count because it shares dr with frost nova (meh, another root), while fire gets Pyroblast procs and Arcane gets charges for increased damage.

That's all for a quick view of the talent tree revamp... perhaps more later. Ty for that last tier change and removing the Polymorph tier... still, I hope that heavy polymorph is available somewhere (hopefully not a Major glyph, because then, you would need both Polymorph glyph to remove dots and Heavy Polymorph to slow damage regen - yuck). Really going to miss Improved Cone of Cold of Cata, was the best.

edit: labeled comments under Mage Tree
Yeah testing...there is still sooooo much to do and feedback.

I think you're missing the point here: priests provided a very substantial amount of feedback and it resulted in nearly no changes to the grid and ability listings.

I'm not saying the existing abilities listed are bad. I like them. I've been defending them for the last three months against people who hated on the concept.

But we don't have a new class-wide ability that's not in the Talent Grid. Disc has no effective AoE healing abilities. Shadow has no ability to generate Shadow Orbs.

I know there's alpha and beta testing, and I know it'll be playable by release. But this class is unplayable as presented, and it's disheartening to see that our feedback resulted in exactly no changes.

Ascendancy looks awesome, the CD/duration reduction for Elementals is a good change.

Are you changing the level 60 talents, and will shocks still share a cooldown?
Got a question regarding Protection Paladin and Crusader Strike/Hammer of the Righteous

In cataclysm, both abilities are linked and thus share their cooldown, what's more, they have an invisible haste buff baked into them when you choose the Protection spec that reduces their CD from 4.5 sec (which is what normally is for Retribution paladins) to 3.0 secs.

My questions are as follow, is this invisible haste buff still present for Protection Paladins going forward to 5.0, as the new talent tree update currently shows both CS and HoTR having 4.5 sec CDs and thus, actually in game they have a 3.0 sec cooldown -- or do they actually have a 4.5 sec cooldown? And if they have a 4.5 sec CD now, are they still linked or are they now unlinked?

Crusader Strike and Hammer of the Righteous still share a cooldown, with a base of 4.5 seconds for both specs. Sanctity of Battle can lower this cooldown for Retribution.

Thank you for taking the time to answer my question.

I guess now I have another question. The mana cost of consecration seems somewhat prohibitive at 22% of our mana. Is there a chance to have it reduced as we lost our other AoE snap aggro ability (Holy Wrath) as it's now exclusive to Holy paladins.
02/15/2012 02:31 PMPosted by Sammichman
Hunter talents seem to favor PvP a liiitle too much...

Better than making 1 tree the pvp tree. Also, some talents that seem pvp oriented may turn out to be pretty decent for challenge mode dungeons.
02/15/2012 01:58 PMPosted by Ive
The oversight of not giving Disc priests binding heal but giving it to Holy is a little disheartening.


Can we get a confirmation that this is intended. What might be the reasoning?
I have some concern not over the talent trees themselves but of some changes being made to certain class/specs...specifically prot warriors. The way I'm reading the trained skills, revenge's cooldown is being raised to 9 seconds, shield slam is still 6, and devastate is still 4.5 That leaves a lot of gaps in a normal tanking "rotation." One of the reasons I like to tank on my warrior is that there is, provided proper rage management, always an attack to perform. I do not like, for example, prot pallies because they're cooldown-based and not resource management based.

I don't deny that prot warriors don't have to manage their resource nearly as much as say, dps warriors, but I feel like this is a very large change in the playstyle of the protection warrior and makes them a bit more similar to paladins than I'm comfortable with.

Note that all this assumes HS/Cleave still work the same way they do now in that they are off gcd. If they are being reworked to be an actual gcd-triggering attack, I suppose that alleviates this issue. But as I'm reading it, I'm far from thrilled.

We are iterating a lot on tank rotations right now. We want rage (and all tank resources) to be something players actually use for mitigation, because we think that will be more fun than having a resource that gets ignored. Under this model, Protection warriors can’t have many DPS abilities that cost rage, because rage will be too valuable for Shield Block and Shield Barrier on fights where survival is a challenge. An ability with no resource cost needs some kind of cooldown or it will just be macro’ed and / or spammed, which isn’t a lot of fun.

Prot warriors have a lot of abilities to manage: Shield Slam, Revenge, Devastate, Thunder Clap, Shield Block and so on, as well as several emergency buttons to handle situations such as streaming adds. We’re okay with melee specs having an occasional free GCD, as long as it doesn’t happen with frustrating regularity.

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