February 15 Update to Mists Talent Calculator

General Discussion
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02/15/2012 01:19 PMPosted by Scyl
Monk abilities/talents please! ;)


They will be posted as soon as enough people ask for them on the forums. That's pretty much how it's been done historically. ;P
Invocation or power orb???? Rune of Power*
Another priest thing that has bothered me since the beginning: Vampiric [whatever you want to call it now] is THE spell that represents/represented Shadow priests. Okay, I'm being pretty petty, but it's like giving a modified Spirit of Redemption as a talent. It's our signature thing, but now what is?

Edit (So that I will stop spamming this thread): I guess devouring plague is Gone?
Question: Why didn’t the priest tree change?
Answer: We are still in development. It is a challenge, when giving players a sneak peak at work in progress, to decide when to release what we have versus waiting to accumulate even more changes.

Q: Do Discipline priests have Prayer of Healing or not?
A: Our current design direction is this: Holy does AE healing with Prayer of Healing, and Discipline heals with (a much more powerful than today) Holy Nova. Divine Aegis would work with Holy Nova under this model. However, please see the question above. The priest tree is still in heavy development.


Holy Nova is going to need some serious development love to make it feel useful as an AE heal. The current tooltip in the calculator still lists it as 10 yards. Get this up to 30 or so (even if the damaging component stays at 10) and we may have something viable.

Why is Vampiric Dominance so late in the game? I've been an Atonement priest since it was released and love it. The damage aspect is about the only thing that keeps me from burning out on healing altogether. I like it continuing to be a spec choice and not a requirement that all priests will feel pressured to take, but it's going to be a terrible grind from 85 to 90 if I have to resort to a pure-direct healing method until hitting that last tier.
I am not very fond of Wild Charge being moved to the same tier as Feline Swiftness.

I am glad to see that Feline Swiftness was made better for non-Feral druids by putting a passive 15% speed increase in Cat Form and having Feline Swiftness increase speed by 15% in all forms, so Cat Form still retains its 30% speed increase while all other forms get 15% instead of the previous 10%. But nonetheless, that we would loose movement speed or Feral Charge (Cat Form) - now I assume to be called Wild Charge (Cat Form) - when we can have both now is upsetting.

Though another thing I noticed was that form specific benefits of Wild Charge beyond just being a gap closer we removed. For those who missed the last version of the Mist Calculator, the Wild Charge talent previously was:

Wild Charge - Grants a movement ability that varies by shapeshift form:
Non-shapeshifted: Fly to an ally's position and your next healing spell costs no mana.
Bear Form: Charge to an enemy, immobilizing them and granting you 30% haste.
Cat Form: Leap behind an enemy and cause your next Ravage to cost no energy, not require stealth, and have no positioning requirement.
Moonkin Form: Bound backward and gain 20 lunar or solar energy, whichever is more beneficial to you.
Travel Form: Leap forward 20 yards and take 20% reduced damage for 10 sec.
Flight Form: Increases flight speed by an additional 20% for 30 sec.
Aquatic Form: Increases swim speed by an additional 200% and take 20% reduced damage for 10 sec.

Very much in line with the current Stampede talent.

I can't talk for the other specializations, but for Feral, was the removal of the energy/position requirement free Ravage to reduce some of the burst damage that Ferals can do presently? Would the removal of the Wild Charge benefits also be to make Feline Swiftness and Displacer Beast more palpable choices? If such is the case, I can see it being easier to take Feline Swiftness over Wild Charge as a Feral.

The other thing I noticed for Wild Charge was the removal of the 20% speed increase for Flight Form. The previous version of Wild Charge had made me considerably happy, as I've always loved how playing a Feral druid seemed to have so many of movement improving abilities (Feral Swiftness, Aquatic Form, Travel Form, [Swift] Flight Form, etc), but I'd always felt like I was missing out on the 20% mount speed. So I was ecstatic to see that added to Wild Charge in its previous form, even if it was on cooldown (and reminded me a bit of how Holy Paladins used to be able to use Aura Mastery for a quick mount speed boost when it used to double Crusader Aura). While I silently hoped that the 20% mount speed increase would be removed from Wild Charge, it was a hope that it would be passively added to (Swift) Flight Form, but to see that it seems to have been removed entirely disheartens me a little bit.

Beyond this small issue with Wild Charge, I am quite content with the Feral specialization and the Druid talent tree. I was also mostly happy with the Frost Mage specialization and Mage talent tree, though I was surprised to see that Ignite was made Fire Mage specific by being its Mastery passive, so would no longer be able to benefit Frostfire Bolt for Frost Mages, and that Deep Freeze didn't seem to be doing damage to stun immune targets any more, but I'm sure the damage will be made up for Frost Mages mathematically one way or another and so am not worried.

I hope this feedback was helpful. Thank you for your time.
We are iterating a lot on tank rotations right now. We want rage (and all tank resources) to be something players actually use for mitigation, because we think that will be more fun than having a resource that gets ignored. Under this model, Protection warriors can’t have many DPS abilities that cost rage, because rage will be too valuable for Shield Block and Shield Barrier on fights where survival is a challenge. An ability with no resource cost needs some kind of cooldown or it will just be macro’ed and / or spammed, which isn’t a lot of fun.

Prot warriors have a lot of abilities to manage: Shield Slam, Revenge, Devastate, Thunder Clap, Shield Block and so on, as well as several emergency buttons to handle situations such as streaming adds. We’re okay with melee specs having an occasional free GCD, as long as it doesn’t happen with frustrating regularity.

Hmm, quoting fails sometimes. Anyways, @Kaivax

This covers some of the concerns. However, under this new model, it still seems like HS and cleave will be far too costly to use over those no CD survival abilities like shield block beyond maybe initially aggro establishing. Damage becomes less fun or meaningful as a tank. This can also lead to, once we have enough threat, rage pooling and purposely not using ANY dps talents beyond ones that generate rage, and going pure survival ability spam and idling in between. Survival is fun, but this seems like a really boring design. We need to be encouraged to fill global CDs. If this means giving shield block an actual CD again, i think it's a must. Frankly a spamable shield block won't do us any good. Put a CD back on it and bring it's power back up in line to a CDed ability. I think Victory rush will more then amply provide active mitigation MoP desires.
Still hate having to choose between shadowstep and preparation when used to having them both >_>


Q: Do Discipline priests have Prayer of Healing or not?
A: Our current design direction is this: Holy does AE healing with Prayer of Healing, and Discipline heals with (a much more powerful than today) Holy Nova. Divine Aegis would work with Holy Nova under this model. However, please see the question above. The priest tree is still in heavy development.


So Discipline priests heal with HOLY Nova?

Does that seem a little odd to anyone else?
I have to say I feel a little disappointed with the hunter talent *change*.. Don't get me wrong, I wasn't in love with all of the old ones before either...

But of the one row of talents you removed for the new, awesome level 90 abilities, you removed the one with shot based proc/poison arrows, arcane arrows.. etc.. those looked the *best* of all the talents before in terms of CHOICE.

Everything else is extremely simplified choices for pve, and only slightly more difficult for pvp
You choose disengage based on fight, auto self heal, or Cloak of shadows effect as a 2nd deterrence to a boss mechanic..

Either Iron Hawk works on boss aoe dmg, or it doesn't, in which case choose spirit bond.

Readiness in all cases... Stupid 5 min rapid fire CD.

Stun or interupt.. unless for some crazy reason you need YET another CC via wyvern LOL

-----------------

But the arrow choices... a nice auto snare for pvp to save you GCDs on conc shot.. poison dot dmg if you felt you were pro enough to control your target switching to not interfere with CC.. and a choice in pve between dot and burst focus via arcane arrows.. /sigh

The trap talent row looks TERRIBLE and has ZERO pve choices, and limited pvp use.. Yay I can turn someone into a beast.. and then fear them.. gee, sounds like scatter trap version 2.0.. AND it doesn't replace freeze trap, so now I'll be forced to monitor and maintain BOTH traps for CC.
Or, yay I can move 50% faster across my own trap.. while still rooted/snared.... oh whoops, the warrior ran the other way and charged me.... Maybe some slight pve use if it buffed party members with speed.. would make sense.. ice slick.. >.>


I love you guys, I love this game.. but when I see the DK and warlock trees.. it makes me want to cry and prep them for leveling in MoP.
This has been said countless times but I feel like the devs would be better off if they just removed prep from the game, re-tooled the cooldowns affected by prep a bit, and then provide a third true mobility talent to match shadowstep and burst of speed. Or you could always just make prep baseline for all rogues and increase its cooldown to 8-10min or something. Otherwise, I am more or less happy with the rogue changes! You guys have addressed the slaughter from the shadows issue, changed energetic recovery so we have to make the tough choice between damage or survivability (recup). You gave us our big moves at level 80, and added a whole new tier of enticing talents. Ranged combo generator, no cd on redirect, and a way to removed the penatly of wasted combo points, very interesting choices. However, I am still not a fan of leeching/paralyzing poison, but i guess to each his own.

also a raid/party wide buff! holy crap
Rogues can deal in pvp
Much, Much better blizzard. I'm quite frankly impressed by how better these talents are.


The trap talent row looks TERRIBLE and has ZERO pve choices, and limited pvp use.. Yay I can turn someone into a beast.. and then fear them.. gee, sounds like scatter trap version 2.0.. AND it doesn't replace freeze trap, so now I'll be forced to monitor and maintain BOTH traps for CC.


Maybe pretty awesome for challenge mode dungeons!
Nice to see they got ride of the Fun Tricks with Polymorph tier and that Warriors don't have to grind 5 new levels just to get abilities they already had but I'm not liking the 75 Warrior tier (here have a Tanking ability, a Tanking Ability or a Tanking ability) Nevermind that if I'm Fury or Arms it means I only have 2 choices on that tier instead of 3

or is every Warrior spec expected to be Board and Sword for MoP?


Still find the over all system very unexciting. Can't you guys add something to it so that it's not just a set of toggles?
The shaman talent asendence looks very nice.

However, there is still, in the talent calculator, nothing really for Enhance. I realise that the note says it is still very much under development, which is good, but I'd just like to restate for all involved that at the moment it's hugely underwhelming for an Enhancement specced shaman.
Where is Divine Guardian? Warriors get rallying cry and war banner for raid cds but palis get theirs removed? This is probably going to force me to bring my warrior to main runs bc of the lack of utility my pali has even though I enjoy my pali more. Fix this I shouldn't need to reroll.
Mage Trees

Finally, looking at all three trees, Frost appears the least like a control tree than the other two. It lacks one less control ability than arcane (slow) and fire (dragon's breath), especially now that Improved Cone of Cold is gone. Nor does it have greater survivability over the other two specs, now that Ice Barrier is baseline in the tree. Another root/freeze would not be appealing at this point, but maybe something like being able to generate a column of ice (to LoS others)


I love this idea. It would be a unique ability which is a breath of fresh air in the game

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