February 15 Update to Mists Talent Calculator

General Discussion
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Question: Why did attacks using % weapon damage drop so much?

Answer: We are in the process of recalculating the way damage is dealt. Individual weapon damage is going up by the same proportion in order to keep DPS at level 85 about the same. This should ensure that, at lower levels, these abilities aren’t overpowered.

Thats going to have BIG implications on Itemization isn't it? Weapon scaling over raid / season Teir is going to have to be smaller? Not to be too grandiose...but that soulds like the days where a guild could still be clearing MC and not feel 3 years behind a guild doing BWL! Hope thats what actually happens.
One thing to keep in mind, the numbers displayed should be treated as place holders. I can honestly say based on the warrior talent tree I am looking forward to this. Each tier doesn't have a clear cut winner (when it comes to what the talent does but not how much it does) and it feels like I pick which ever talent I would find the most fun.
Please blizzard, it seems like the focus of the talent trees is a step in the right direction keep this direction. Don't make a talent mandatory (so far so good) make it preference. If you succeed at this with every tree while maintaining similar dps and pvp viability across the board as well as some new, wonderful looking gear, interesting fights and hi-res textures, the success of this expansion will be greater then any before and may rival vanilla wow.
I have to say, im not very thrilled at seeing War Banner(Passive) in the warrior list for level 87.

Taking Demoralizing Shout and Challenging Shout rolling them into a banner seems rather odd given that one is an "oh crap" button and the other is a debuff.

Having this go through will make a Prot warrior's job more of a pain than it has been in a long time. Keeping demo up on targets is something all warriors should be doing, but making them pick between keeping the debuff or an aoe taunt/fixate just doesnt make sense. Looking at the times on whats listed already means that if i use the mocking banner, i would be without the demo banner for 30 seconds. I understand making choices for interesting gameplay, but you arent making any other classes make a choice like this, you arent making pallys give up their aoe taunt in favor or something else, dk's dont give up army in favor of death strike. There is no reason to make warriors have to choose to drop demo in order to taunt and then not be able to put demo back up for 30 seconds. Please reconsider this.

Dude, check the Thunder Clap tooltip, it no longer decreases atk speed (that debuff was apparently removed from all tanks far as I can tell) it now decreases physical dmg dealt by 10% in an 8 yd radius, so you still have your dmg reduction debuff there if you want to use mocking banner. Demoralizing Banner apparently reduces all dmg dealt (not just physical) to all enemies in a 30yd radius of the banner, so it's much stronger than your current version of demo shout is, so the trade off between that and mocking seems logical since you can still apply the normal 10% physical dmg reduction debuff with Thunder Clap.
Some clarification on rogues:

Shiv applies concentrated effects of the active utility poison. Those effects are not included in the poison tooltips currently available in the calculator. They are as follows:

  • Crippling Poison reduces the target’s speed by 70% for 12 seconds.
  • Mind-Numbing Poison increases the casting time of an enemy's next spellcast within 8 seconds by 100%.
  • Wound Poison reduces the target’s healing received by 50% for 6 seconds.
  • Leeching Poison instantly restores 5% of the Rogue’s health.
  • Paralytic Poison roots the target in place for 4 seconds.

  • Thanks for this^^

    UMMMMMMMM...did ANY of the other PVE Sub Rogues on here notice "Energetic Recovery" is linked to SnD now instead of Recuperate?!? That's HUGE. One less MANDATORY 5-combo point finisher we have to keep up in order to be effective. Which means the Sub rotation gets easier, Eviscerates more plentiful, and the option to use Recup or even Expose Armor for utility. THANK YOU BLIZZ!

    And thanks for the earlier AOE FoK...and the 10% party haste physical dmg buff. Which gives PvE Sub Rogues a 10% haste + 5% crit party bonus. Nice.

    Oh, and thanks for giving fleet-footed to all Rogues.

    Still not happy about Shadowstep & Prep being on the same tier though.

    Ascendance looks to be an amazing abitlity and I'm really looking forward to seeing how it plays. Healing Stream totem, however...am I missing something? It will go from healing the party to a single person? Will it heal for a greater amount than it does now? It seems a bit lackluster given how much HST contributes to Shaman's overall thouroughput (especially given our few tools for spread out raid healing).


    The Talents look very interesting, particularly Divine Star and Void Shift. However, I'm still very disappointed to hear that Prayer of Healing will be removed from Disc. It's a core spell and will drastically alter the playstyle of the spec.

    Hmm. Consider, sure, but... it also looks very specific: It only applies to *our* poisons and bleeds. What about DoTs cast on your target by someone else?

    Well that's nothing new we've had to deal with that since the beginning of time anyway. It doesn't really have anything to do with making a choice of Instant over Deadly.

    Assuming a PvE scenario the choice between the two seems to be just to have another pretty icon to look at over functionality. With the new Deadly poison, it re-applys every 12 seconds and while it's ticking away damage it's essentially degrading to IP.

    In that case the choice to use IP is only an issue if you don't want DoT's on a target.

    In a PVP situation /w Dirty Tricks it's a non-issue as well and without it you still have the option of IP I guess.

    They still seem too close to me, makes me wonder why 2 is required when the only situation where IP would be superior is to the pvper who didn't take Dirty Tricks.
    I am thrilled with the new final tier of talents, for hunters (AE related). I am WAY more excited about those possibilities, than the former top tier (CC related ones). I also love the fact that I am actually torn about which one I will want! Thank you for these updates, can't wait to see what else is in store!
    What about a short-timer emergency cooldown to replace Shield Block/Spell Block, as Shield Block has been moved to our "active mitigation" ability? It looks like warriors have lost their analogue to Barkskin/Divine Protection/Bone Shield, while other classes have kept their version. I'm worked about WotLK-era cooldown discrepancies cropping up again.

    Eh paladins also lost holy shield. And they gave us a 2nd shield wall for magic on a 1.5min cd, granted still weaker then DP, and on a longer CD to boot.

    Holy Shield is pretty small potatoes compared to Shield Block (and, most importantly, Spell Block). And I'm not sure what "2nd Shield Wall for magic" you're talking about, so either I'm missing something or you are. I suspect you may be misreading Shield Barrier, which is our new "active mitigation" tool for magic damage - something all the other tanks have analogues for as well (albeit mostly in the form of self-healing).
    holy paladin has a +400% mana pool buff does that mean int on plate is going away ?
    The shaman tree made me sad. Yes I know the level 90 points are still being decided and Ascendance looks like awesome fun...

    But the level 60 options? Is basically, 'here are three things that elemental shamans already have, and now we're making you pick one.'

    Currently, Elemental Mastery is a haste + damage CD with the first spell being instant. We have our haste buff through our totem and our mastery is the chance to cast a duplicate spell...

    But on this tree choosing the Elemental Mastery talent is just a flat haste CD, OR we have to talent into our mastery equivalent, Echo of the Elements (?) [But our mastery is still Elemental Overload which already does this?! - Will Echo proc our mastery and vice versa?] OR we can pick Ancestral Guidance, a talent that makes a spell instant cast and gives us our 5% haste buff.

    It just kind of annoys me, especially because we were told that we wouldn't lose any of the buffs we are able to provide, even if we do lose the totem connected to them. But now it seems we have to spec into haste?

    I know it's all still being worked on, and that the level 90 options are still hidden and might change this, and I know Bliz wanted the talent choices to be hard, but don't take away awesome things we already have now and make us choose between them, because looking at them now it feels like a nerf.

    Also, can't wait to know what totems we are going to have if we're losing all our buff ones, because while the level 45 options seem very useful now... will they still be useful when totems are special cooldowns that don't stay down long? I guess they'll be handy if the Fire Elemental Totem isn't changed and we need to reset him when he drools at a wall - because according to this he is still a totem, not a pet or anything else.

    *Sigh* I guess I was just looking forward to answers so much about how you'll be 'overhauling' our class but it just seems the same with certain things taken away, a damage reduction CD (Finally! Thanks again for that!) and a level 87 ability. I'll just have to sit here and be patient for the next update.
    I do have a question it sorta goes to warriors, will arms be just a tad less complicated than currently, fury is pretty easy to master and get done, but arms is a bit trickier to really get it ironed out. can there be just a bit of relief?
    I have some concern not over the talent trees themselves but of some changes being made to certain class/specs...specifically prot warriors. The way I'm reading the trained skills, revenge's cooldown is being raised to 9 seconds, shield slam is still 6, and devastate is still 4.5 That leaves a lot of gaps in a normal tanking "rotation." One of the reasons I like to tank on my warrior is that there is, provided proper rage management, always an attack to perform. I do not like, for example, prot pallies because they're cooldown-based and not resource management based.

    I don't deny that prot warriors don't have to manage their resource nearly as much as say, dps warriors, but I feel like this is a very large change in the playstyle of the protection warrior and makes them a bit more similar to paladins than I'm comfortable with.

    Note that all this assumes HS/Cleave still work the same way they do now in that they are off gcd. If they are being reworked to be an actual gcd-triggering attack, I suppose that alleviates this issue. But as I'm reading it, I'm far from thrilled.

    We are iterating a lot on tank rotations right now. We want rage (and all tank resources) to be something players actually use for mitigation, because we think that will be more fun than having a resource that gets ignored. Under this model, Protection warriors can’t have many DPS abilities that cost rage, because rage will be too valuable for Shield Block and Shield Barrier on fights where survival is a challenge. An ability with no resource cost needs some kind of cooldown or it will just be macro’ed and / or spammed, which isn’t a lot of fun.

    Prot warriors have a lot of abilities to manage: Shield Slam, Revenge, Devastate, Thunder Clap, Shield Block and so on, as well as several emergency buttons to handle situations such as streaming adds. We’re okay with melee specs having an occasional free GCD, as long as it doesn’t happen with frustrating regularity.

    Not directly related to warriros, but tanking rotations. I was REALLY looking forward the previous version of the prot pally tree as you put back a lot of the options for a more passive style tanking rather than an active style. As a tank I have a LOT of things to worry about including boss positioning/movement, add pickup, etc. I do not want to push MORE buttons than I have to now. I just barely got used to doing the current version of prot which has MANY more things to worry about than the LK tanking model.

    Can you please think about putting back some of the more passive options? I know that there are other people who liked/loved this playstyle and some who hated it.
    People keep mentioning in this thread that the DK talents were "massively" changed. Maybe I'm wildly wrong, but they seem to be the exact same as before with the exception of Tier 1.
    02/15/2012 04:04 PMPosted by Zushiba
    Well that's nothing new we've had to deal with that since the beginning of time anyway. It doesn't really have anything to do with making a choice of Instant over Deadly.

    Yeah, sorry, I've got the attention span of a fish: I had moved directly on to the next topic without thinking about it the context of the previous. :)

    Assuming a PvE scenario the choice between the two seems to be just to have another pretty icon to look at over functionality. With the new Deadly poison, it re-applys every 12 seconds and while it's ticking away damage it's essentially degrading to IP.

    In that case the choice to use IP is only an issue if you don't want DoT's on a target.

    That, or if it's a fight that largely consists of fighting mobs that will die within 12 seconds. I imagine we'd use IP on trash and DP on boss fights, unless we were assigned to adds. Not a very exciting choice compared to the utility poison, but then, it doesn't really have to be, and I suppose there's not a tremendous amount of additional creativity that could be injected here. Maybe an Explosive Poison that plants a "charge" on the mob that, after 15 seconds, deals a greater amount of damage than either Instant or Deadly would over the same period? (Shrug.)
    Not a fan of the warrior tree (or the MoP warrior direction in general, but that's for another topic).

    As a PvE dps warrior, the level 45 and 75 tiers basically offer nothing to me. I could skip them entirely and not miss a beat. The level 45 tier is essentially a PvP only tier, and the shout abilities are laughable in comparison to Piercing Howl (which is still almost mandatory to function in PvP). If you don't PvP you're taking something you might use once in a blue moon. I don't think that's a good design.

    Similarly to the 45 tier, the level 75 tier is again too narrow in its scope. Those abilities are probably awesome for prot warriors and will carry some use over to PvP, cool. But what does everyone else do? There needs to be an ability for everyone in each tier, not three abilities for one type of player.

    I was also disappointed to see War Banner was still there unrevised. It just seems like a clunky ability for a class already overloaded with that, and the choices other than the crit banner seem extremely unimpressive for a level 87 talent.
    Looking the current protection warrior setup, is it intended for us to have an absurd level of dead globals? (4.5 sec CD on devastate, 6 on SS, 9 on revenge, etc)

    I'm a little confused why demo and destro got equal or better mechanics for aoe cursing than aff and very interested in details on the refresh mechanics for aff dots. There isnt quite enough information to get the whole picture, particularly how refreshing bane of agony will interact with its ramp up, refresh mechanics for UA, Malady, and Corruption, and what benefit is gained from having fel flame refresh instant cast corruption instead of UA or malady.

    Resto Druids

    Did anyone else notice resto druids get omen of clarity 26 levels before they get lifebloom to proc it?
    02/15/2012 03:22 PMPosted by Elbeghast
    Druid tree still sucks.

    You are joking right?
    Tell me one good thing about it?
    Oh, hey, does Boundless Conviction work with Pursuit of Justice to potentially give 60% move speed?

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