February 15 Update to Mists Talent Calculator

General Discussion
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Why was Displacer beast changed to drastically!?

I loved the "Blink in a random direction putting you in cat form and stealth while removing all dots"

Yea, I prefer the previous version as well. It's one of those abilities which made me want to try the class. Now it's just a somewhat boring Blink-Vanish hybrid.
The Rogue talent tree is severely disappointing. I could take or leave 75% of the abilities, these aren't fun choices, they are picking the lesser of 3 evils plus they are making previously possible talent combinations impossible to have at the same time anymore. Just plain disappointing.

I was hoping mists of pandora would pull me back into the game, as of now I don't see any reason to keep playing. Glad I decided to hold off on signing up for the annual pass.

Why was Displacer beast changed to drastically!?

I loved the "Blink in a random direction putting you in cat form and stealth while removing all dots"

Yea, I prefer the previous version as well. It's one of those abilities which made me want to try the class. Now it's just a somewhat boring Blink-Vanish hybrid.

And you'll be almost guaranteed to be pulled out of stealth immediately by one of the millions of dots or bleeds that are sure to be on you. Now it's just a long CD blink that doesn't break stuns.
02/15/2012 01:41 PMPosted by Kaivax
Answer: We are in the process of recalculating the way damage is dealt. Individual weapon damage is going up by the same proportion in order to keep DPS at level 85 about the same. This should ensure that, at lower levels, these abilities aren’t overpowered.

Does this effectively mean that white damage is being increased with special damage being lowered? And wouldn't that lower the skill cap of all classes?
Another thought for Destruction. The Warlock takes a DoT from it's own burning embers, and the only way to remove it is to cast Soul Fire. Soul Fire has such a long cast time that this doesn't sound very good. In pvp, you may need to remove this dot from yourself suddenly. Having such a long cast time just to stop from hurting yourself seems like a bad idea. Conflag clearing burning embers would be better imo.

I do like how Soul Fire will be a ridiculous nuke though.

Yeah, I personally don't like the idea of Soul Fire for Destro.

It works good for Demo, especially with Decimation as an execute, but the 4 second casttime that doubles to 8 seconds if cast above 25% health just seems weird for Destruction. Add that to the fact that it's the only thing that consumes embers, and it just doesn't really fit good. I say remove the cast time doubling and apply that only to Decimation to make it an execute, and then let, say, Conflagrate reduce the cast time by 2 seconds for 10 second or something. Better yet, just make Soul Fire Demo only and let Chaos Bolt be the super hard hitting ember consumer.

I agree with this completely. It would be a good way to keep Chaos Bolt for Destruction.
The whole balance solar/lunar is a bit confusing. Did you ever discuss a mechanic for Balance similar to Chakra (priest). Solar could be direct damang and lunar could be aoe.
My brief 2 cents on changes to druid talent tree.

lvl 15:
Displacer beast is basically blink with a 3 minute cooldown. not a good ability at all.
Wild charge is actually a good change, why need displacer beast if u have this.
feline swiftness is not bad, but it's also not nearly as cool as wild charge.

Disagree - I log into my balance / resto druid, hop into cat for the bonus and.... Its (noticeably) not there. Feline Swiftness has been with me for so long that I don't know that I can give it up. Someone on the druid forums said that it was an 8% boost on top of the baked in talent (with the PVP 4 set - assuming that stays as well)... I'd really have to try it - especially in PVP when you don't know where the target is going. At least in PVE, the tank can tell you "I'm moving the boss to the wall".

For PVE, getting across the room 30% faster (or getting out of fire faster!) allows me to do things like taking the far Son of Flame and still get back into position for the Seed phase. However, WC is very nice for target swap uptime...

WC (FC) is also pretty much required in PVP for classes with Blink / Disengage / Charge / etc. Choosing whether you have a gap closer or actually be able to hit the target isn't really my idea of "tough decision"; more of a "gimped if you do, gimped if you don't" as a feral.

lvl 30:
I want natures swiftness and one of the healing abilitys, we shouldn't have to chose between these, maybe put natu'res swiftness into abother bracket, or build it or one of the healing ability's into the druid class.

As feral - I can see uses for NS or Cenarian Ward (because it's a 30 sec CD usable in forms, vs the 3 MIN CD of Renewal. That's another I'd probably have to play with.

lvl 45:
Still so very very sad typhoon isn't for moonkins only, and it's sad that it's not getting abuff either.
Faerie swarm seems like the best choice here, purely due to the fact it has no cd.

Hey, FC and FS are no longer Feral only. Sharing is caring. :P

On a 2 min CD, Mass Entanglement doesn't seem all that great - but I suppose it's on par with RoF for Mages.

lvl 60:
not bad choices but I don't see myself giving up my only summon, which is also something moonkins now have to share...

Don't worry. Unless your trees can out-DPS a second Berserk for a feral, we won't be taking it anyway. ;)

it's weird that bash in now a talent.
Roar is just a gimped version of physic scream.
ursols vortex, I don't know until i try it, most likely best for tanking.

Eh - both seem severely situational in both PVP and PVE. I would probably go with Bash as a Feral, because I generally want to hit my target in Arenas, though I could see the use of both. A resto would probably take Roar. A Feral might take Roar as well for the mass pileup in mid for BGs.

heart of the wild still good
the other 2 just aren't as viable.

Disagree here too. I WANT HotW to be good. I really do - I miss the days of shifting to viably perform multiple roles. The key word being "viably". Back before we were real DPS classes, I could heal the tail end of a fight in a 5 man, and be "ok" at it. But buffing spell power, and giving us two (three if you count Tranq on an 8 min CD) healing spells isn't really "viable". We would need access to more than just Rejuv + HT for the duration to make it work, IMO. Same for Balance during air phases or Bear spec during an "oh crap" moment. Perhaps activating it gives us a separate action bar for that 45 seconds, and allow full or most of the abilities of the other specs? We only get to do it for 45 seconds here, on a 6 min CD, and I can't do the math, but I doubt it will make our SP equal to a caster's or mitigation equal to a bear's. It's not like we can be "as good as Resto Druids" and definitely not "for an entire fight".

Disentanglement is pure win, IMO. Even if you're not snared - PVP or PVE - that self heal at the cost of 2 GCDs - actually is a hard choice for me in PVE and PVP. I can also see how the Dream of Cenarius would work: cat DPSing -> oh crap, tranq needed -> automagically buffed Tranq cast.

This last one I agree with what the devs are doing, this is a hard (but not class-breaking!) preference choice.
I really like the level 90 mage talents. Invocation versus Rune of Power definitely looks like an interesting choice, although we'll need to see numbers before we know much more on that.

The level 15 talents clearly are aimed at movement, and provide a choice between instant cast, scorch, or two casts while moving. This is definitely aimed at getting arcane more mobile, without having to rely on scorch unless you want to. I like it.

To be honest, I don't see much here for mages that I don't like. I'm glad to see the polymorph talents gone, because I think that was just asking for CC balance complaints in PvP. The only question/concern I have about CC right now is regarding hunters' Transmorph Trap. This sounds to me to be basically polymorph for hunters, possibly tipping the balance as far as CC goes.

Otherwise, though, I'm pleased with the direction of mage talents. Until we know numbers at level 90, a lot of this is just look and feel stuff. I like the look and feel of this.
02/15/2012 05:37 PMPosted by Kaivax
Most other offensive attacks are free (for Protection)

I know it's never been a prot ability, but what about execute?
The way you're designing rogue is pretty odd.

It seems like the only real differentiation between specs will be whether you mash sinister strike/evis, mutliate/envenom, or backstab/evis.

Warlocks, on the other hand, will be completely different across all three specs. Can we expect some variety? The way it stands now, every serious PvP and PvE rogue will just choose the spec that does the most damage.

Also, PLEASE clarify your stance on poisons. Will you only be able to use one lethal and one nonlethal? If this is the case, you will be forcing every pvp rogue to pick up deadly brew, because no rogue in their right mind will go without wound+crip. If you can use two non-lethal poisons, this is not an issue. Another fix would be to make wound a lethal poison (keep the damage proc with it) or to give rogues a hamstring type ability.

Please remove nerve strike. It reeks of blackjack (cata) and improved kidney shot (wrath), two talents which almost nobody ever took.

Will feint be usable while not in melee range?

Please consider tweaking the prep/shadowstep/burst of speed line. You buff prep, nerf shadowstep, and then act like it's a choice? The way it is now prep is just too good to pass up for pvp, and it will be another expansion of rogues being balanced around having it. PvP rogues have been reliant on prep since I can remember - you said this was something you wanted to address for cata but came up (very) short.

It also doesn't look like frost mages are losing ANY mobility. I thought you were addressing this? They seem like they will be better than ever with blazing speed + frostjaw/iceward + frost bomb.
02/15/2012 06:02 PMPosted by Kaivax
Feral: Feign Death (Play Dead!), Frost Nova, Soul Swap

Frost Nova? Really? So Feral get even moar CC from Symbiosis?

02/15/2012 06:02 PMPosted by Kaivax
Enhancement/Elemental Shaman: Solar Beam

wat is this i don't even
why are you taking DH away from shadow priests? along with a few other healing spells? i like being able to stop dps and heal a little when certan events happpen in raid. are facemelters just total dps now?
So um, 400% mana pool increase for Holy paladins? does this mean we will be using strength gear, or something other than intellect?
Resto druid:

1- Lvl 38: Omen of Clarity: Procs off of Lifebloom ticks.
2- Lvl 64: Lifebloom: You finaly get it!
3- ??????
4- Loss

Also, would it be possible for druids to get a T6 that is actualy an awesome and USEFUL choice at the same time? Unless PvE raids turn into a very weird thing were people need to change roles all the time DURING fights, we are stuck with a 20% self heal shape-change-and-back macro to hit every 30 secs in all roles... far from anything interresting or impressive or game-changing or epic that other classes get.

To me, being proficient at out-of-spec stuff is something to enjoy while leveling, not at end-game where we are trying to optimise our niche. So it could become a very solid T2 where lvl30+ get to enjoy their shapeshifting more and actually get to see what they like without the cost of switching specs. T4 looks a lot more promising in terms of awesomeness and would be a good start for T6.

I would also like to know what Force of Nature really does in each spec, so we can actually comment on it. Because right now it screams "we don't know what to do here yet" (which might be the case).

Some ideas:
Bear: Trees would interpose themselves between the bear and targets and use their hard bark to absorb some damage or increase the armor of the bear.
Cat: Trees would use their sharp claws to inflict bleeds to all targets so that the cat gets bonuses on bleeding targets.
Moonkin: Trees could throw damaging magic that would renew the moonkin's DoTs, and/or help with getting/staying in eclipse (they could give back eclipse energy so that a 30-40 sec burn phase would be possible without running out of eclipse).
Resto: Trees could put HoTs on injured targets that could work as Lifebloom (stackable, procs OOC and keep mana regen up) and/or keep harmony up for free and/or put seeds-like buff on their targets and/or redirect a portion of nearby raid damage to themselves until they die.
02/16/2012 08:36 AMPosted by Rainé
So um, 400% mana pool increase for Holy paladins? does this mean we will be using strength gear, or something other than intellect?

I don't get this either, how will we get spirit if we use non-int gear ?
I don't see Teleport and Portal spells anywhere for mages. Should I be concerned or is this an oversight and we actually DO have it but it's not listed?

I am (very VERY strongly) hoping for the latter.
Answer for the 400% mana pool:

I think this is because Int will not provide bigger mana pool anymore to anyone. So classes with non-mana-using off-specs get this so the caster get the big mana pool and non-caster still get some mana to use a few spells. Resto/Moonkin druids also have 400% mana pool passives at level 10.

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