February 15 Update to Mists Talent Calculator

General Discussion
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Cold Snap seems kind of odd in that it is a talent that you'd only ever pick up if you were spec'd into frost. Would it not be better to have it as a blanket reset on all cooldowns?
Some feedback coming from Resto Druid.

15: Looks good.

30: Also good, but I would like suggest that Cenarion Ward should be pretty good if you want player's to choose between that and Nature's Swiftness. I understand the numbers I see are no where near accurate, but just saying if the spell is sub par all Resto's will likely take Nature's Swiftness without any doubts, especially with a 1 minute CD.

45: Fine - as it's understood not every choice will be new heals or something.

60: I really think it's going to be impossible to expect a Resto Druid to look away from Incarnation. I really can't think of any suggestions at this point though. It is only a problem for 1/4 of the specs.

75: Don't see anything attractive here.

90: Thank you for Dream of Cenarius. I always find myself spamming wrath when healing slows down, so this will be awesome. I felt there was nothing here on the previous build.
Warlock stuff looks mostly good, new soul fire seems incredibly powerful. Only thing that looks not so useful is the new Mannoroth's fury, KJ's cunning and Archimonde's Vengeance are both pretty compelling options but Mannoroth's fury seems too niche atm. I think expanding upon the auto-cleave mechanic that it used to be would make it comparable to cunning or vengeance.

But I know everything is subject to change and may very well already be outdated.

Also please consider reducing the cd on guardian demons, 5-6 minutes would be perfect.
From Alona
I have so much to say about the priest talents but let me sum up how I feel in a single word:


First of all, it looks like it was barely touched since you last put the talent trees up. Okay, that's fine. Maybe it didn't get the fine-toothed comb treatment like the other classes got. However, from what I saw of the last thread there was a -ton- of great priest feedback regarding these talents and not a single thing was really changed based on it.

Why is the levitate talent even still there? How is that going to be a useful skill? You cannot use levitate in combat because if you get hit, it removes the effect. So essentially this is going to be relegated to those few times you're fishing on darkmoon island and want to run more quickly to some floating wreckage to get there before the rest of the crowd.

I'm really sorry but when I look at the paladin tree and then back at the priest tree all I can do is frown in disappointment. You're doing so much to help the other healing classes seem new and fresh again and priests are clearly going to be more of the same. I see more POH spamming, I see more bubble spamming related stuff. That's totally fine, I enjoy playing my class enough so that keeping it the same is fine and familiar to me. But it does seem a little, I don't know, unfair when you see all the great stuff coming to other healing classes.

Also with regards to void shift, how is this going to be manageable when it comes to people using it to grief? People complain enough as it is with lifegrip and that's a party-based tool that doesn't actually take HP away from anyone. Now you're putting something in where, for example, in PVP a priest with low health can swap with a higher health mage standing next to them. Mage dies, priest survives because of it. How is that fair to the other person on their team? I'm not saying that it's purely a griefing tool because I see uses for it outside of that - obviously - but you have to consider the worst when you put things like that into action.

I just don't know. I have a lot of feelings. I would actually like to test these changes to get a feel for them before I really make a judgment one way or another, but this is disheartening. I know it's still pre-alpha and it's possible that resources were too busy elsewhere, but still. I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt though and I'll be patient for the next release and the beta so I can actually play without making a 100% judgment one way or another

Something tells me that, similar to how the last tier (level 90) says "coming soon!" for shamans, are talent trees are not yet fully fleshed out as they need to be, as well as there being issues with there being no Prayer of Healing for disc priests. Additionally, you can also see that our priest-like invisibility spell is gone, so something tells me the dev's are still getting our abilities fleshed out properly

Yep, that's kind of why I'm reserving any major judgments until we get in and test it for ourselves. No worries, I'm not doing any panicked, "AMAGAH SHELVING MY PRIEST FOREVER AND ROLLING A PALADIN" flipping out yet. But it still doesn't hurt to remind them that priests need attention too. I'm sure they'll get to us.
I preferred the Warrior Talents the way they were before the change today ..

The level 75 tier are almost useless for me, it's 2 tanking abilities and one that requires a shield. What am I going to do with that as an Arms or Fury Warrior?

I don't think the lvl 90 and 60 abilities should have been reversed either.. it makes things kinda underwhelming all around. Not looking forward to MoP if this is how things are going to stay

As for Death Knights , PLEASE GIVE US BACK CORPSE EXPLOSION. That was one of the talents I was looking forward to the most coming back and now it's gone (again).
Step and prep still on same tier really sigh

Is the imp kick talent from combat now a glyph?

Its not even a choice, and its pretty obvious which one to take.

this is why the idea is a failure. Blizzard is trying to offer true choice but have these changes really changed anything?

Shs and prep still on the same tier, elusiveness is awful, and our new lvl 90 abilities are really really dull.

a lvl 90 ability that is simply a ranged attack that does x damage and costs y energy?

Redirect with no cooldown? Can you just have combo points on the rogue? Why waste a lvl 90 talent. Is this a joke? Are you teasing us or for real?

the last talent seems sort of interesting except that it doesn't make much of a difference in terms of energy management. So to the big picture: whats the point?

Shroud of concealment is a 20 yard radius smoke bomb. If people just crowded in the smoke bomb, what exactly is the difference and why does it warrant it being our 1 class ability in this expansion?

Sorry if I'm coming off as overly critical but rogue talents looked awful for so long and now it seems there little effort to rectify that.

Thanks for the 31 point talents baseline though. Except that the only interesting one was Shadow dance.

10% haste buff for the raid? Ok but its hardly anything to get excited about when you know the design philosophy of bring the person not the class.

energetic recovery is now on slice and dice, a nerf to rogue pvp which i'd be okay with if all the other stuff wasn't so underwhelming and boring.
The Pally Tree does look pretty amazing. And I'm pretty happy with the revamp! My question though is about Light's Hammer. With 6 healing every 2 seconds or 6 damage every 2 seconds, it leaves me feeling like it's underpowered or just not competitive with the other 2 choices in that tier.

Perhaps, (see probably what my problem actually is), I just don't grasp the intent and purpose of the talent. But currently I just don't see it as a viable choice between the other 2.

Maybe someone could shed some light on it for me? Any explanation of that talent would be appreciated. Please understand this isn't a complaint, I just simply don't get it.
4.5 second Cd on devastate & it's listed as "replaces sunder armor". Stacks up to 3 times.
13.5 seconds to put sunder debuff up? I certainly hope with this long of a CD it applies 3 stacks in a single cast. Cause if i'm the sunder debuff for something like a tendon on heroic spine, i'm not a very reliable debuffer on a target that's attackable for 18-19 seconds if it takes me 13.5 seconds to get the debuff up.

I'm also even more saddened by the nerf to vigilance being turned into hand of sac. Seems like big homogenizing to me. Mobility and taunt freedom were about the only thing left I felt a warrior had to compete with the superior survivability of other tanks. Seems like safeguard will be the clear choice here though since vigilance seems way under powered by comparison and hopefully we can pull enough aoe threat to not lean on taunts anymore on a fight like heroic spine, especially since we won't be using cleave anymore.

I also worry about damage/threat output when abilities like shield block cost so much rage that we'll be stoping damaging abilities beyond initial pull threat and simply auto attacking/pooling rage for mitigation abilities. This doesn't seem like a fun measure of play, hitting one button off CD, shield slam (since it's a rage generator) then another button "shield block" or other applicable CD to spend rage, then rest of time just pooling rage staring at boss not attacking it. Also looking at abilities in general though it seems like we don't have enough filler for our rotations with the 4.5 sec cd on devastate, 6 sec cd on shield slam, and the RNG of revenge proccing sword and board (when revenge is also on a CD). What is warrior tanking going to be like? Sitting there casting nothing waiting on CDs while we wait for enough rage to cast shield block early fight, followed by rage pooling and still doing more not attacking later fight?

I'll wait until i can test it myself though. Still time to fix things.
This latest version addresses all my concerns from the last calculator for fire mages. Thank you for the level 90 tier options. I do not miss the polymorph tier.

When do we get to see the glyphs?

RIP Blastwave. You will be missed.
I just want to say, THANK YOU!

Removing spec-specific pets for Warlock has been the top of my wish list after two expansions of staring at the same pet all the time. As the talents stand right now, you choose your pet based on what you need. Please keep it this way!
Imp: Magic Debuff removal and +HP buff.
Succubus: CC+Knockback.
Felhunter: Magic Buff removal.
Felguard: AoE pet, Stun. (Please de-emphasis the first part, so choosing a different pet on 3+ mob packs doesn't feel like being punished)

Again, thank you, and please keep this design. I miss adapting my pet for my party/situation.
The rogue trees look very disappointing. Instead of getting exciting new abilities that are going to change or alter the base gameplay or add something new to the way we play we're getting: nerfed HARD, a heal poison that cannot compare to the new Elusiveness, having to choose between our most mandatory talent and our most fun one, a stun poison we'll never use in competitive or casual PVP because of the inability to control it and diminishing returns, and finally only one viable level 90 talent which is basically "stop wasting talent points when you're already at max," which good rogues hardly do because that would energy cap you.

In summary, basically other than Shadow Focus and Elusiveness (which are the only two talents that change things, at all) the rogue trees are a large disappointment compared to the changes other classes are getting as far as new abilities and change of gameplay. There is NO comparison between any two talents in any tier; it's that obvious which talents are the good ones and which ones are not. Hell, the only one that looks like we may ever choose would be between Preparation and Shadowstep, and even then it's a false choice. It's "I can be effective at surviving and damage dealing in PVP" or "I can have fun teleporting around and being able to catch up to people when I'm hit by the myriad of new stuns and snares that are going to be available"

Looks like we're all going to continue playing vanilla AGAIN, for 9+ years. Fantastic. Also LOL combo points still not on the rogue. I'm getting so tired of these boneheaded design mistakes being left the same for rogues expansion after expansion after expansion while other classes are seeing redesigns and improvements.
Holy Insight, level 10 Holy Paladin passive ability.

You're going for it, aren't you? No more Int plate? :O
Icebound Fortitude has been reduced to a 20% damage reduction for Blood Death Knights. Is this accidental, or do we really not have a shield wall ability anymore?

Talent points for retribution still look useless to the extreme, on the order of at least 75% approaching 100.
Sounds legit.
So funny how many people blame the game for their own inadequacies. If I cant get 2200 its because RMP openers are too powerful

This is a l2p issue


If you are dieng to an RMP opener its because you arent peeling.

Lolsmokebomb Lolcloak Lolshadowstep Lolblind Lolsap LOLPREP

I'm obviously not going to say it's impossible to survive an RMP opener by a long shot, I am going to say it's wildly powerful, much too powerful.
Question: Why doesn’t every spec get a passive ability at level 10?

Answer: Some specs no longer need them. For example, Fire mages don’t get bonus damage with Fire spells – they just have mostly Fire spells to cast. Some hybrids still need passives to differentiate their DPS, healing, and tanking trees. Furthermore, we can always add more if the need arises.
Just to say it, I see nothing akin to Sanquine Fortitude, in case I'm missing it. Are tanks losing their 50%, 2min DR CD?

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