February 15 Update to Mists Talent Calculator

General Discussion
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02/18/2012 01:02 AMPosted by Sigrún
If you'd seen my original statements, you might have noticed my suggestion that prot should keep the ability as it currently exists, while holy could still get the version it's being warped into. When a ret pally says the spell's worthless because its damage is so poor, I can't help but point out that this spell is about utility, not damage. I hardly ever use it as ret myself, and I don't see how the version it's getting deformed into will be useful for anyone but PvP healers.


Are you dense? In my original post on Holy Wrath I wasn't responding to you, but to someone who said it should stay the same for all paladins. The problem with Holy Wrath for Ret in Cataclysm is we've been forced to use it as part of our rotation, and that has felt really sh!tty.

Personally I don't think the Holy Wrath stun has enough depth to become a Prot specialization, but I understand your sentiment and you're free to argue your case. It'd be nice if you didn't act like the sky was falling, but to each his own. This will be my last post on the topic because this is a general thread and it's not appropriate for us to argue back and forth here.


02/18/2012 01:02 AMPosted by Sigrún
A stun isn't a CC. Blinding something isn't a CC.


I don't even...
On the talent calculator, Shadow Priests have shadowfiends which on the tooltip shows a duration.

On the Druid tree, Druids have treants which has no duration described. Is this a flaw in the talent tree or are you planning on making Treants perma :3.

Please be the latter...
I looked over mostly just Mage and Warlock changes. I had an idea about glyphs.

With the mage, I saw some abilities become possible talents or just baseline class spell, that would seem to work better with specific specs (shatter, scorch, the bombs). But if they were put back into specific specs, that might limit people's choices, esp. if they are Elementalists.

I had a thought. Maybe we can put some of the spells back where they are in Cata (as well as something like Warlock's Soul Link) but do something interesting with glyphs.

Right now, of course, we have no idea what is going to happen with glyphs so I'll just use the one we have currently. Maybe, at lvl 90, we can get one more Glyph slot. It will be a sort of free-for-all. You can put a prime, major or minor. BUT there would be another choice as well. The developers could choose maybe two or three spells from each spec (not something too major. For example, for mages it might be something like Dragon's Breath, free, on-the-move scorch, slow or Shatter) and if you wanted to, you could select ONE to put into that slot. The developers could choose carefully so that it won't be terribly overpowered. On the other hand, if people wanted to stay in their spec, they could put another prime glyph. In certain circumstances, maybe one spell could replace another. I was thinking maybe give the bombs to specific specs and then you could choose to replace it with a glyph.

I know this would probably be a nightmare to balance, but I think it might help out people who want more choices. It could help people who like to pvp since they can choose a skill from another spec that would help them in that aspect. I'd think most end-game pve people would just stick to glyphs that help spells that they already have.

As I said, it's just a thought. Was trying to figure out a way to give more back into specific specs (for better synergy) and still give people the choices they want.
I noticed Wind Shear now has a 12sec cooldown with a 3sec school lockout, which I assume is to keep it in line with interrupts among all classes, and that there are no Passives lowering its cooldown. That's fine, and I think making interrupts more in line with relative cooldowns is good.

But I also noticed there's no Passives increasing Shaman spell range... is this an oversight? I had high hopes that Cataclysm would fix Wind Shear's abysmal 25yd range once every other ranged class was upgraded to 40yds, but that didn't happen. I hope Shaman range isn't being nerfed, and that Wind Shear isn't going to be left behind yet again.
Question:

Is the Druid "Dream of Cenarius" talent limited to only one single buffed spell cast every 30 seconds?

Also some additional thoughts on the restoration druid changes:

Why take away nature's grace from restoration druids? It made for some of the more interesting restoration game play. The buff could be held back and then used for situations like: quicker tank heals, a buffed tranquility, buffed rejuvenations with extra ticks, etc... It was one of the more subtle things which could still make a difference with good play. Removing it just makes the class a little bit less interesting to play, and removes a core talent that we are very used to.... not a good change IMO.

Also regarding the "hybrid" ideas planned for the restoration tree (which I hate BTW!). I do have a question regardless...

Even if we do get agility from our intellect, I still don't see how it would work when It comes to weapons. Obviously weapon damage is vastly different between caster and melee items in the current game, so right away I am curious as how to that would work.. Also if a resto druid uses a one hand weapon and off-hand, it is not even in the realm of a usable setup for a feral, and far more dramatic. Knowing weapon damage is the strongest stat for Feral druids, I just don't get how that would work.

Not to mention the fact that we would only get a gimped and watered down version of the abilities to begin with.... Overall it feels like just such a poorly fleshed out concept..
With the mage, I saw some abilities become possible talents or just baseline class spell, that would seem to work better with specific specs (shatter, scorch, the bombs). But if they were put back into specific specs, that might limit people's choices, esp. if they are Elementalists.


That's not true though.

Remember, the Mage specs no longer get extra damage to their respective elements. Scorch will hit as hard for Fire as it will for Arcane and Frost.

A lot of Fire Mages might take Scorch because they want to stay thematically fire, but that doesn't mean that it's better from a gameplay perspective. Same with the bombs. None of the bombs will do more damage for a given spec, and they won't interact with stuff like Inferno Blast, Combustion, and Arcane Charge stacks, so they're all good choices. Shatter is, of course, better for Frost Mages than Fire or Arcane, but as a baseline spell, it's allowed to benefit one spec more than the other (like Evocate benefiting Arcane more than Fire or Frost because of its reliance on high mana).

I'm already planning my Mage on being Frost with Scorch and Arcane Bomb.
I was actually thinking more about things like Combustion. Right now (in Cata), LB works with Combustion and is also spread by Impact. However, with the various bombs becoming talents for anyone to choose, we've lost that. I love the synergy we have now - lining everything up for Combustion (and if there are adds) using Impact to spread not only Combustion (which includes LB dmg) but the LB as well. Even without the extra dmg. to fire (or frost of whatever) I think this would give more flexibility for developers to connect spells better within a school, without completely taking it away from other specs. Right now, they have Flamestrike as one of the DoTs. For most fights, I think LB works much better because the mechanics to use Flamestrike is a bit clumsy when trying to cast other things (for single target). Having to place a circle under a boss and then go back to targetting it (it's easier to lose a target that way than I'd like) to continue hitting with fireball, pyro, etc. With LB, you keep your target and don't have to place anything on the ground.

As I mentioned in another post, this might open up the way to make Arcane Bomb do something that would specifically benefit Arcane - that is, return mana with ticks (or possibly with the explosion - or both). They can tailor the spells to better work with the specs and yet, with the glyph system, still allow other people to take one of them, if they really wanted it.
i noticed that on the elemental tree, "shamanism" is increasing only Lightning bolt and chain lightning's damage. and what about lava burst? is it an intended change or just a tooltip error?
02/18/2012 08:17 AMPosted by Mulko
i noticed that on the elemental tree, "shamanism" is increasing only Lightning bolt and chain lightning's damage. and what about lava burst? is it an intended change or just a tooltip error?


Lava Burst is going to be Elemental only, so I'd say Shamanism is buffing the class-wide spells (Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning) and Lava Burst has the buff baked into it.
Will priests see an update to our calculator soon or are we ging to have to wait another few months to see an icon change...
where is the flame shock spell protection????
For shaman and hunters, we still have a ways to go with the revamp of talents, and this latest calculator doesn’t have some of the changes that we’re currently working on.


Keeping this in mind, I'll still point out that on the level 60 line of the Hunter talent calculator, Fervor is vastly inferior to either of the other two talents. As a blunt comparison: Fervor will give an extra Arcane Shot per minute on the average; Thrill of the Hunt will give you an extra Arcane Shot every 6 or 7 Arcane shots which is a lot more than one per minute; and Readiness will give Rapid Fire twice twice as often, and for BM hunters it'll give Bestial Wrath twice as often, which is pretty spectacular.
On the talent calculator, Shadow Priests have shadowfiends which on the tooltip shows a duration.

On the Druid tree, Druids have treants which has no duration described. Is this a flaw in the talent tree or are you planning on making Treants perma :3.

Please be the latter...


trents damage is very low, if they keep the damage the same (and dont add utility like their attacks slow the target) having htem as a 'perma pet' would be fine in the sence they are a small dps boost that lasts almost indefanatly, and since they are in the same tear as strong dps talents, it is likely they will be low dps, perma pets, that overall equal the dps that the big CDs gives when copmpared to duration Vs CD
^vampiric touch shows a casting time of 1.5 seconds. Mind control doesn't shadow a casting time.

Herp do we get an instant cast 8 second cc? Idk.. maybe the talents aren't finished

ESPECIALLY THE PRIEST ONE
3. Get rid of the daze on Apect of the Cheetah/pack already. If you don't want us using it in combat then just make it break on combat, or make it a true form like Travel Form and Ghost Wolf so that we can't use our abilities while in it.


Gotta disagree on this one.

Aspect of the Cheetah/Pack has unique uses not covered by any other spell or talent in the game: you can hit it for a quick pulse and then back to Aspect of Hawk. You can do this whenever you know you'll be safe for a few seconds, or whenever the benefit/risk ratio is high. In the Sindragosa fight, I used a quick pulse of AoP to help the raid get out of range of Blistering Cold. In WSG I use a quick pulse of AoC to catch up to flag carriers in tunnels. And so on and so on.
Can this come out all ready im tired of cata its so boring. Deathwing is too easy and I dont know what to do anymore I have 5 lvl 85s and dont feel like leveling anymore chars. Just HURRY UP AND COME OUT ALREADY!!!!! IM GETTING BORED!!!!!!!!!!!
02/17/2012 08:59 PMPosted by Nimun


i thought faerie fire was removed and replaced as an optional talent.. unless you are of course referring to the new talent version of this ability, Faerie swarm?


Nope, Faerie Fire is still in as a level 34 Druid ability.


Ah.. i guess i hadn't noticed that. i guess i misread the tooltip. its also one of the things that changed since last i looked at it. its not the talent in that tier i was planning on getting so i guess i didn't pay attention to it. but now that i'm looking at it again, it does seem like a super handy talent..
So many rogues complaining. You should test it before you freak out. I dont think these changes are going to do anything but try to bring rogues down to where they need to be. I mean seriously, you guys are freaking gods in pvp. A nerf is definitely in order.
Hi!
What are the intended roles for the warlock pets?
I can see that the Voidwalker is still intended for "tanking" and the Imp is still for Destro, but what about the Felhunter, Felguard and Succubus?
Is the Felhunter going to continue being the best single target pet? Is the Felguard continuing AoE only? Is the Succubus continuing the pet you only use to knock players down of cliffs in duels?
I feel like Typhoon is too much a balance druid ability to be a talent that any spec of druid could have. I understand that it fits in with the other crowd control talents in that bracket, but I don't think it would be too much for balance druids to have Typhoon along with one of the others.

At first thought I felt the same about Force of Nature, but I'm interested to see how the other spec's treants will work.

Would love to see more details on how some of the druid talents work. Will Ursol's Vortex hold targets in place? How will Mass Entanglement spread? Etc.

Looks like some cool stuff so far! Still a bit disappointed with the small number of talents tho.

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