February 15 Update to Mists Talent Calculator

General Discussion
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I was looking at the level 75 warrior talents, and the all appear to be protection oriented. I have no desire to tank and would only be in a group as an arms or fury warrior. I understand how you wish the talents to be a hard choice, like at level 60 where I would love to have all three. The hard choice at level 75 would be which talent that I'd never use should I take. If your looking for a help the group, not my DPS type talent, you may wish to include a passive talent choice.

Thank you for your efforts MOP is looking like it'll be an awesome expansion.
I'm really excited about the upgraded warlock pets. The upgrades to the imp, voidwalker, infernal and doomguard sound like they'll use the outland models for those demons. Sounds good.

I'm concerned about the shivan and the observer though. Based on the order they're listed in, the shivan sounds like the replacement for the succubus and the observer (what is this? a beholder?) is the replacement for the felguard? I would like to suggest that the shivan be the replacement for the felguard since it wields 4 swords and is pretty martially inclined, and it would be nice to have a female demon not have to take the "sexy demon" role. The observer could be the succubus replacement, and have a eye-mesmerize move and a tentacle whip move to parallel the succubus' abilities.
02/18/2012 09:28 AMPosted by Persimmon
3. Get rid of the daze on Apect of the Cheetah/pack already. If you don't want us using it in combat then just make it break on combat, or make it a true form like Travel Form and Ghost Wolf so that we can't use our abilities while in it.


Gotta disagree on this one.

Aspect of the Cheetah/Pack has unique uses not covered by any other spell or talent in the game: you can hit it for a quick pulse and then back to Aspect of Hawk. You can do this whenever you know you'll be safe for a few seconds, or whenever the benefit/risk ratio is high. In the Sindragosa fight, I used a quick pulse of AoP to help the raid get out of range of Blistering Cold. In WSG I use a quick pulse of AoC to catch up to flag carriers in tunnels. And so on and so on.


its also severly outdated, back in vanilla it was good, cause it was strong, but it hasnt been updated since day 1, it needs an update to keep in line with how the game has evolved
I was looking at the level 75 warrior talents, and the all appear to be protection oriented. I have no desire to tank and would only be in a group as an arms or fury warrior. I understand how you wish the talents to be a hard choice, like at level 60 where I would love to have all three. The hard choice at level 75 would be which talent that I'd never use should I take. If your looking for a help the group, not my DPS type talent, you may wish to include a passive talent choice.

Thank you for your efforts MOP is looking like it'll be an awesome expansion.


consider it a CD to help your healers save mana, you still will not be a tank
I'm sure this has already been brought up a few times, but "Control Undead"... Why? I just... I don't... why? What is the point of this spell? It would've been an interesting flavor spell if it were introduced when the class rolled out back in Wrath, but honestly, go ask your friendly neighborhood warlocks how often they use "Control Demon".

I understand the need to add more spells to our kit to make things feel new and fresh for DKs, but is adding a worthless spell really the way to make things new? Outbreak, Necrotic Strike, Festering Strike... those were all FANTASTIC additions to our toolkit in Cataclysm. Remorseless Winter, Asphyxiate, Vile Spew, Gorefiend's Grasp, and Soul Reaper are going to be amazing additions for MoP, and the return of old-school unholy blight (sort of) will help bring a lot of flavor back to the class. I am still a bit on the fence about Desecrated Ground, but I am sure that will have it's uses as well (Keep in mind, this is coming from a purely PVE point of view).

I understand a LOT of people have already talked about Corpse Explosion, but I think it would be a MUCH better baseline ability than Control Undead. Now stay with me for a minute, because i'm not just another one of those Corpse Explosion fanboys. CE would get a LOT more usage from DKs of all flavors, in both PvE and PvP, because ALL types of DKs summon ghouls. Granted, unholy tends to name theirs and feed him and hug him and call him George (or Pebblenibbler), so it may be far more situational for them than it would be for our frosty and bloody cousins, but I still think it would have SOME use... and that "some" is certainly more usage than Control Undead would get right now.
Why has blizzard decided that spells that are currently in the game need to be taken from us mages and re-earned? Mage shield a level 86 spell now???
02/18/2012 01:24 PMPosted by Enkindle
Why has blizzard decided that spells that are currently in the game need to be taken from us mages and re-earned? Mage shield a level 86 spell now???


have you seen what mage armor does now?

it would be to powerful for low levels, even at 80 (when mastery is learned) it would be to strong

also, dont complain to much, if you think thats bad, try losing your lvl 60, 70 and lvl 80 abilities to an expansion, just to regain it in a much more clunky and buggy version, and our ability level requirements have changed every expansion

ps: mage armor was made into a considerably better version than it currently is, expecailly because how mana works is chaning considerably
Please tell me that the healing aspect of holy nova will reach 40 yards since you plan on taking out Prayer of Healing in the disc spec which has a 40 yard range to it. 10 yards as it's listed now is just disheartening.

Maybe let it be cast on a target instead of emanating from the caster, just a thought...

Thanks for all the work you're doing.

Side note: Are you going to rename "Tree of life" to "Form of Broccoli"?? Please tell me you will be keeping the glyph of the treant in the game.
I am a Death KNight, and i approve these talents
Things look good for the most part(pre-alpha is pre-alpha), but the STR/AGIL buffs becoming mastery buffs fills me with sadness. Mastery might be useful, but it's really boring. Can this be looked at again? Primary stats are much more fun than power increases(Int beats spell power, for example).
I really like some of the new hunter changes, but I'm glad to see that there is still some work being done.

Just a few observations:

Most (But not all) of these talents seem to be more focused on survivalbility and CC, with a heavy emphasis on PVP-like talents. I'm not surprised really; hunters have been complaining a long time about their difficulties in Arena and these talents (plus the removal of minimum range) seem to address those concerns.

My only real issue with the new talents is when i look at powershot, I'm having flashbacks to old Sniper Training, with the whole "X dmg at X yards" that caused hunters to either be too far away and be out of healing range, or not be able to collapse as fast as need be for tight AOE heals.

I also am concerned about the return of Readiness being available to all specs; I recall that last time that happened it lead to huge BM nerfs (and eventual spell lockouts) due to the power of double BW; hopefully that won't happen again :)

Also I have an idea:

Remember the first talent rollout that had all those different arrow types at lvl 15 or 30? I know there is a chance of those becoming glyphs, which is fine, but what would be more interesting is if they brought back an ammo slot to our ranged weapon, and we could choose between those 3, kinda similar to how a Rouge might choose a different poison depending on the fight. That might be fun.

Btw, we don't have a new spell between 85 and 90.... wonder if that means they are still working on that crazy 'Pet Stampede' spell that some Blue mentioned a while back...


Until MoP, talents have always dictated our rotations. I'm worried now that all these talents have been 'baked' into the spec we will see a stagnation wrt our rotations, because blizzard thinks of them now as 'complete.' I also think it would be cool to have different rotations for the same spec based on your talent selection.

I don't understand the idea that talents should no longer be dps oriented. If dps and utility type talents are separated by teir, then each teir could be balanced within itself first and then by class. Then a variety of different rotations could be possible within each spec. It seems to me like this would be worth the balancing troubles.
02/18/2012 12:42 PMPosted by Kolorynn
I'm sure this has already been brought up a few times, but "Control Undead"... Why? I just... I don't... why? What is the point of this spell? It would've been an interesting flavor spell if it were introduced when the class rolled out back in Wrath, but honestly, go ask your friendly neighborhood warlocks how often they use "Control Demon".

Because now that we can use up to three stuns at once (Gnaw, Remorseless Winter, Asphyxiate), giving us an actual CC we could use would be overpowered- from a PvP point of view of course. Course my bigger problem is that Unholy will never use it simply because we rely on the pets we have too much.
Much like Enslave Demon, except Warlocks could alternatively Fear the target in place.
Blood and Frost could use it, MAYBE, in a dungeon where the primary enemies are undead... which in Pandaria sounds like maybe... 1?
I just searched 20 pages of replies for an answer to my question. It's not there.

Can you PLEASE tell me why Blastwave was taken away from Fire Mages?
Personally, I still have a bit of a problem with Desecrated Ground. Don't get me wrong, I'll probably end up taking it, but that's because of the damage aspect of it alone. Not that there's anything wrong with that, I guess.
I just don't really see any reason for it in our kit. CC immunity? Between AMS, IBF and Lichborne I think we're good. Otherwise the execution of it just looks like D&D on steroids. Am I crazy for wanting to pick up a new mechanic that I'll actually USE, as Unholy?
I'd prefer to see something else in its spot, like a single-target crowd control effect, or a CD that changes based on spec, or a DPS-friendly gap-closer (a way to charge up to bosses withOUT pulling off the tank, or something that enemy players can't be immune to).

Actually, interesting thought. What if you gave DKs a Blink-style effect? The DK surges forward a fixed distance, no target required, probably stunning or knocking down enemies in his way, or leaving some patches of (damaging?) energy in his wake- it doesn't really matter. You could even roll in (or glyph it for) an effect that allows the DK to break CC with it and gain temporary CC immunity (something like 3-5 sec) after casting, so it can be either an opener or a getaway mechanic.
Just an idea.

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