Self healing in MOP

Warlock
I actually noticed that warlocks self healing is even more diminished than ever. There's only 2-3 spells that heal the warlock now, while there are talents that suck the life out of the warlock at a very rapid rate.

To clarify...healthstones are one. drain life is 2. 1st tier talents is 3 unless u pick harvest life then it's still 2. mortal coil has become a .5 since it only heals u if the enemy isnt immune to being horrified, as in bosses, which is all well and good because it's meant to be a CC kind of spell and the healing is only a bonus.

Sure people can say that we get passive bonus healing from fel armor but 10% bonus isn't much. Right now we can have 30% healing bonus and that still isn't enough for both pve and pvp. I kind of know why it's only 10% though and I can figure something out. Make self heals seperate from players healing you for fel armor...like make it 10% bonus from healers and maybe 30% from self heals.
I have the same fear about MoP. Very cool talents, effects, spells, etc... But many guys are forgeting it, Lost is bigger (much than expected) than gain life.

buuuuut, lets wait the beta =)
Self-healing for any spec other than Destruction actually doesn't worry me at all. Aside from Life Tap, we will only have 1 other spell at any given point that uses HP instead of mana. All three of the potential spells are very situational and offer great utility if used correctly. Of course a warlock simply spamming fear or popping Unbound Will while stunned by a rogue in a smoke bomb will kill themselves.

A good warlock that knows how to use these spells properly though, can create great situations by using insta fear at the right time, getting a 50% sprint without a CD, or getting an extra PvP trinket on a 20 second CD. Like I said before, if you pop Unbound Will while in a smoke bomb and already at 50% health you will probably die. Pop Unbound Will to get out of that nasty stun BEFORE the smoke bomb though and you can effectively negate losing 70% of your health by sacrificing 25% of your health. This is of course just a hypothetical example, but it would still be a 45% health gain overall, or at least give you a trinket off CD for when you are low in a smoke bomb.

Also, don't be too quick to ignore our AMAZING survivability tools in MoP.
Healthstone -> 45% base health
Any of the lvl 15 talents are amazing though in PvP I would take the 50% heal on a 3 min CD.
At lvl 30 we get either a HoT that is almost always up when being pressured, a 45 sec CD death coil with a 25% heal, or a shadowfury as any spec.
At lvl 45 we get Soul Link (still don't know the exact value), a nasty bubble, or a Cauterize that is much easier to deal with and actually controllable.
We still have Drain Life, we still have our trusty portal (greatest survival CD in game if used properly), and on top of that we get a tank equivalent CD with Unending Resolve (50% dmg reduc and interrupt immunity for 12 sec on a 3 min CD)

If anything, us Warlocks will be harder to kill than ever before with this new set up. The only thing that worries me is the damage part from Burning Embers as Destro.
I think the warlock will continue in the happy tradition of being a free HK to most of the other classes. And being unable to kill the rest.

The 2 class defining aspect of warlocks, fear and self healing, have been utterly gutted over the years due to incessant PVP QQ. I see no reason for blizzard to change their stance.

This will unfortunately destroy the little PVP niche that warlocks have carved for themselves, but given the number of people who still actively play the class, the won't be much of an outcry.

I think the official line is 're-roll, put up, or shut up'


Well that's one of the stupidest things I've heard in a while. Warlocks are far from being free HK's, and we can kill plenty of things. Warlocks are in a great spot right now, and self healing is only increasing in MoP. Are there still some issues with the new design? Yes, but given the amount of love Blizz is giving locks with these new talents I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Also, fear has not been gutted at all, it is still one of the most powerful CC's out there with Polymorph, and self healing is getting a boost in MoP.

As for the outcry, the Warlock community is one of the most vocal and active class communities active, mainly because we're similar to Enhance Shamans and Feral Druids, not many people play us but a lot of us are long time players or just really love the class.
Ember Tap is going to be nice. It's good to be Destro.

I know I'll definitely talent into Harvest of Life for my Affliction offspec for even more healing.
Warlocks are far from "fine" or in a "good" place pvp wise. We are a pure dps class that has been reduced to playing a support role. Warlocks are gimp without a healer or help.

Healers out heal dots melee will blow us up in a matter of seconds while they interrupt us to death. However its not impossible to pvp with its just not ideal.


Unless you look at 1v1 only, Warlocks are in a great place. We are one of the top desired classes for both competitive RBG's and Arena. Especially when considering the low overall population of warlocks in comparison to other classes, it is really quite amazing how well represented we are in PvP.
Well, I think our self healing is now balanced by the fact that we're getting spells that cost health (e.g. Blood Fear), it's an interesting concept, how Warlcoks will have at least 3 resources (Health, Mana, and Spec resource). I'm willing to give it a shot, if I can sacrifice my health to instnatly fear someone for 8 seconds and then heal it back over time? I would love that.

My biggest gripe in PvP is that we get demolished and there is very little we can do about it, you can stun (If Destruction or Demonology), teleport, instant howl of terror (if you're affliction), demon leap (if demonology), or jump turn to death coil. WE get wailed on and our so called "self-healing" does very little, unless you are glyphed and specced to heal your self for more (Glyph of Healthstone, Glyph of Felhunter, Affliction Talents, etc.), compared to the damage being wailed on us that we don't have a shield spell to protect us with like mages or priests. We're squishy, really really squishy, and how do we balance that? With some more ways to heal ourselves and more shields and absorption effects, and MoP is giving us that and I like it!
I think the warlock will continue in the happy tradition of being a free HK to most of the other classes. And being unable to kill the rest.

The 2 class defining aspect of warlocks, fear and self healing, have been utterly gutted over the years due to incessant PVP QQ. I see no reason for blizzard to change their stance.

This will unfortunately destroy the little PVP niche that warlocks have carved for themselves, but given the number of people who still actively play the class, the won't be much of an outcry.

I think the official line is 're-roll, put up, or shut up'


Well that's one of the stupidest things I've heard in a while. Warlocks are far from being free HK's, and we can kill plenty of things. Warlocks are in a great spot right now, and self healing is only increasing in MoP. Are there still some issues with the new design? Yes, but given the amount of love Blizz is giving locks with these new talents I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Also, fear has not been gutted at all, it is still one of the most powerful CC's out there with Polymorph, and self healing is getting a boost in MoP.

As for the outcry, the Warlock community is one of the most vocal and active class communities active, mainly because we're similar to Enhance Shamans and Feral Druids, not many people play us but a lot of us are long time players or just really love the class.


Warlocks will have less utility in MOP because:

- They will have less CC/peeling abilitiies.
- They will be easier to lock out of their school of magic.
- Ember tap requires immolate to be on target followed by incinerate to get an ember.
- Soul link, if you choose it, shares healing as well as damage.
- Demo and Destro have no means to resummon a demon except a 5 second cast.
- More slows and roots than previous xpacs.
- Can't do that while stunned/silenced, frozen etc.
- Unbound will cost 25% of your max health. Pop if you will, but there is no carryover
of immunity. You can immediately be stunned again and then you're screwed.
- I would bet that the shields from Sacrificial Pact and Dark Bargain are dispellable.
- Locks have no burst.
- No dispel protection for immolate.
- Incinerate cast is too long amd soulfire cast is twice that of incinerate. (pet will need
to get 20 hits on a target to reduce the cast to 2 seconds. If you happen to pull the
soulfire trigger before the target is below 25%, any soulfires cast over the next 30
seconds will be 8 second casts.
- Worst level 90 talents in the game.

Even with considerably more burst than a lock, the elemental shammy suffers in PVP because of cast times. Until pushback is removed from the game and spells with cast times are changed to instant casts with global cds, demo and destro will have issues performing in pvp.

Affliction locks will be tested due to soul link (shared healing) and armor healing affects (10% instead of 30%). Affliction locks will also have to do without either howl of terror or mortal coil.

I'm not buying it that locks will be better. Healing is no better than before. Just different, with more downside (cost of health).
Warlocks will have less utility in MOP because:

- They will have less CC/peeling abilitiies.
- They will be easier to lock out of their school of magic.
- Ember tap requires immolate to be on target followed by incinerate to get an ember.
- Soul link, if you choose it, shares healing as well as damage.
- Demo and Destro have no means to resummon a demon except a 5 second cast.
- More slows and roots than previous xpacs.
- Can't do that while stunned/silenced, frozen etc.
- Unbound will cost 25% of your max health. Pop if you will, but there is no carryover
of immunity. You can immediately be stunned again and then you're screwed.
- I would bet that the shields from Sacrificial Pact and Dark Bargain are dispellable.
- Locks have no burst.
- No dispel protection for immolate.
- Incinerate cast is too long amd soulfire cast is twice that of incinerate. (pet will need
to get 20 hits on a target to reduce the cast to 2 seconds. If you happen to pull the
soulfire trigger before the target is below 25%, any soulfires cast over the next 30
seconds will be 8 second casts.
- Worst level 90 talents in the game.

Even with considerably more burst than a lock, the elemental shammy suffers in PVP because of cast times. Until pushback is removed from the game and spells with cast times are changed to instant casts with global cds, demo and destro will have issues performing in pvp.

Affliction locks will be tested due to soul link (shared healing) and armor healing affects (10% instead of 30%). Affliction locks will also have to do without either howl of terror or mortal coil.

I'm not buying it that locks will be better. Healing is no better than before. Just different, with more downside (cost of health).
This is exactly the kind of post I am talking about. Most of these things you brought up are assumptions, there are so many things wrong with this post I am actually going to have to wait until tomorrow to point them out to you. Seriously... wait till the beta THEN you can complain if 25% max hp is too much health or too little, and many other spells that work this way.


25% is 25%. It doesn't matter if you have 10,000 health, 100,000 health or whatever.

The only assumption I made was that the shields for sacrificial pact and dark bargain are dispellable. Considering the current void shield is dispellable, I think it's a pretty safe bet that those will be as well.

Everything else if fact as it currently stands.
Just want to throw in that Demonology get a quasi-, perma meta form which increases 600% armor (almost armor cap; quite possibly feasible in MoP), half duration to stuns and snares. Why does everyone keep overlooking this? Do you know how buff this form is, and being able to upkeep it?

That, and in form being able to heal 4% per SECOND? Do the math, and see how much a lock can have HP wise in MoP. Grimoire of Sac. gives 30% HP AND atk boost for 30 sec, then a 15% HP and atk boost throughout for 15 min. That with fel armor results in around 190k-200k with Cata gear. That's roughly (with fel armor) a 8900 HP drain PER SECOND. Guldan is INSTANT, reduces speed of up to 95%, you can coil them and heal 50k+ in 6 seconds. Self-healing is weak?

Do you guys even think about how these mechanics can work before you talk? They're giving us AURUS that reduce 30% phys atk and 30% increase in cast time, or 8% more dmg done. That with demonology + demonic fury, that's an !@# ton of dmg with dots with instant shadowbolt in meta form.

Amazes me how much you guys cry oceans and ask for things that we clearly got. Casting while running in Worgen form while instant fearing?

So why are we crying again? Warlocks are probably getting the biggest overhaul, the biggest buff (maybe minus no global CD WoG; Druids (Guardian) are getting a fat buff as well).
Believe it. I disagree that it'll be cut in half; what Meta and Nether Plating provides in MoP is what is provided right now in 4.3. Also, damage is actually reduced but can be increased by mastery, another change being made (instead of a flat 18.4%). Yup, that's right: armor cap is feasible.

You can tell they are implementing this in the long run as MANY of the skills via meta are melee-oriented, or close quarters. Hellfire, auras that reduce 30% phys atk and increase 30% casting, the lvl 86 carrion (keep away), shadowbolt slash that becomes instant, etc. Dare I say it, first viable mage/tank class. As for taunt or whatever, sure they can throw that in there and boom.

How is Harvest Life NOT self-healing? It's 4% of total health PER tic? It isn't dmg based, target (likely) cannot be immune, and is instant (in the sense that it gains per second)? And you can have that with pet sac, which is likely a 150k shield?

Kiljaedan's Cunning: run away while casting for pet once 1 min CD is up on pet sac for the shield? NO other class has something like this.

What I wrote in bold was written by a blue; correct me if I'm wrong (though I doubt it). Sorry, in one of the many posts in the Lock forum.

Also, Fist of Guldan is INSTANT; the 2.5 sec is for the dmg to take place, not for it to actually LAND. You serious? Meteor in the air for 2.5 sec before it lands? Hell to the no.

And why do you think they are giving this to Locks? To snare off Rogues or DKs (stacks up to x3).

Honestly, I see a lot of nerfs coming but as of now, Lock demo looks pretty damn sweet with enough self-healing. Hell, even healthstone gives 45% up from the > 30% or whatever.

Still don't get how this is "lacking." Do the math; 4% + Fel Armor = ~4.4% of a 180k-200k = roughly 8-9k per tic.
You serious?


Addressing:

1. So 4% per tic and 25% health @ 45 sec is something we already had? Didn't know. 45% healthstone is incorrect info? Didn't know that either, except the tooltip says otherwise. Pet Sac for Shield at a one minute CD for 150k is something we had right now as well? Didn't know that either.

2. We get a new spell at 88 and keeping the same portal. Because we don't have soulburn to run 8 secs without being rooted or snared we lose mobility? Guess the 10 sec leap doesn't really count.

Tankability: You assume that meta form can't be upkept, or is at a much lower duration than 36 secs? I'm under the impression that meta form will be upkept for a much longer time. And who gives a rat's !@# about soul link if you're going to pet sac for additional health and dmg?

Huge cost of lvl 60 tier? 25% to purge all roots, snares, magic effects, etc. is big? And a mortal coil that gives back 25% every 45 sec isn't big? Instant fear for 10% is too much?

You obviously don't PVP a lot.

Yours is the most ignorant post I've seen yet. Look over the talents, READ them, and then come back and QQ.

This isn't even considering the Fel Armor buff.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum