You said you wouldn't nerf DS blindly

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02/22/2012 10:32 AMPosted by Callaria
It's robotic because she merely repeated what has been said before, going so far as to link a previous post. Nothing organic about it.


Maybe Neth linked this because it ahppen to be Blizz's official position on the subject?


Here's blizzard's "official" position on making heroics and raids too easy posted by GC.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2053469

Lately it seems blizzard's "official" position changes every time the wind blows in another direction.
02/22/2012 10:34 AMPosted by Blackgoddess
We're not "nerfing blindly." Keep in mind that, the debuff can be disabled. So if you and your Raid choose to do so, you can take on the encounter without it.


Then why not do what many have asked for and add an achievement of feat of strength for doing it without the debuff?


Is it really that important to you to brag and link it in trade chat?
02/22/2012 10:34 AMPosted by Blackgoddess
We're not "nerfing blindly." Keep in mind that, the debuff can be disabled. So if you and your Raid choose to do so, you can take on the encounter without it.


Then why not do what many have asked for and add an achievement of feat of strength for doing it without the debuff?


Because people asked them by the end of wrath to stop cathering to small minorities I guess...
02/22/2012 10:34 AMPosted by Blackgoddess
Then why not do what many have asked for and add an achievement of feat of strength for doing it without the debuff?

Maybe they are worried the self proclaimed "casuals" will complain about the developers rewarding more to those who put more effort into the game?

I dont raid anymore and yet I still think players should be rewarded for putting in more effort, especially in a game that already rewards so much for just being there.
If no one is going to do it, then I'd better never see a post again asking for more challenge in the game.

Blizzard is giving EVERYONE a choice here. If they weren't, the debuff would be fixed, non-optional. You either want challenge or you don't. The only reason to be so vehemently opposed to this is because you don't want other people getting the same things as you.


QFT.
Wonder when we'll be able to 8man heroic madness...
02/22/2012 10:29 AMPosted by Fionessane
Neth, you know full well that turning the buff off is not an option for most guilds. I find it insulting when Blizzard continually throws that line out there, and I don't even raid these days. Let heroic BE heroic. The different levels of difficulty were there for those looking for it. Heroic was supposed to be for the top 2%. Normal for the regular joes. Now LFR for those that "wanted to see the content". Stop spoon feeding the heroic content to the LFR masses by nerfing any and all challenge in this game.


So, what I'm reading here goes something like this

"I want it to be harder, but when presented with the option to do so, I refuse to take it, and then after I refuse to take the option presented to me, I'll complain about 'spoon-feeding' or some other equally trite nonsense"

What you are reading are posts from people wanting to keep a challenge in this game. A challenge that will leave a sense of accomplishment behind when it is finally achieved.

What fun is there playing a game when in 6 months the developers turn on godmode and let you wreck everything? I've never found that fun.

Now you say: Well down it before the nerfs come in.

I say: Why does Blizzard want me to rush through the game? So I stop playing sooner? That goes against everything Blizzard. Loot is RNG so you play longer. Content gets gated so you play longer.

Keep the challenge in the game, allow people to be excited when they down a heroic boss; not relieved.
02/22/2012 10:35 AMPosted by Dòlò


Maybe Neth linked this because it ahppen to be Blizz's official position on the subject?


Here's blizzard's "official" position on making heroics and raids too easy posted by GC.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2053469

Lately it seems blizzard's "official" position changes every time the wind blows in another direction.


That was over 1 year ago... LFR didn't even exist. And the final solution to beat encounter which you had trouble with is impossible since you can't really overgear until next x-pac...
02/22/2012 10:35 AMPosted by Mishotem


This.

And yeah, the line about "turn the buff off if you like" is insulting. No one is going to do that.


If no one is going to do it, then I'd better never see a post again asking for more challenge in the game.

Blizzard is giving EVERYONE a choice here. If they weren't, the debuff would be fixed, non-optional. You either want challenge or you don't. The only reason to be so vehemently opposed to this is because you don't want other people getting the same things as you.

If you want heroic to BE heroic, turn off the buff.

If you want different levels of difficulty, turn off the buff.

If you don't want to be spoonfed content, turn off the buff.

If you just want to down bosses in a video game, leave the buff on.

It's your choice. Personally, I think it's too soon. But I really don't understand people who say they want challenge and then refuse to take it.




It's already a crappy situation in the game if you're on realms that are still actively going for the realm first of heroic madness. You expect any guild in their right mind when something like this is presented to them to turn off the buff? You can't have a server first title system in place and this at the same time, it doesn't work. If they made it so you can't get the buff and get the title at the same time, that would help. But it's much too late for them to do that.



Not to mention, you do content you have no business of beating with a % buff, after a few weeks you get gear you really shouldn't have had access to, you turn off the buff, the gear doesn't magically go away. You're aware of this, right?
Keep in mind that, the debuff can be disabled. So if you and your Raid choose to do so, you can take on the encounter without it.

OK, seriously?

Will all of you who think this is a logical argument just stop.

No progressing guild is going to turn off the nerf. Period. They would lose nine or 24 of their other raiders if they do and they will run off to guild where they are working on progression via the path of least resistance.

The only time anyone will turn the nerf off is once everything is on farm and they want to do it to flex their e-peens.
So, what I'm reading here goes something like this

"I want it to be harder, but when presented with the option to do so, I refuse to take it, and then after I refuse to take the option presented to me, I'll complain about 'spoon-feeding' or some other equally trite nonsense"

What you are reading are posts from people wanting to keep a challenge in this game. A challenge that will leave a sense of accomplishment behind when it is finally achieved.


The challenge isn't being removed. What other people do or say shouldn't nullify any sense of accomplishment you'd get from turning off the buff and downing the content.
Why is this even a problem now?

The buff exists, and it's going up.
We knew this was going to happen, exactly what happened with ICC.


So why is it an issue again?
The dumbing down of the game is one of the reasons why I left.

The summary is Blizzard is either gonna side with the people who want challenge, or the "casual players" who allegedly make up the majority of the gaming population.

They have decided to support the casuals against the best wishes of people like me who have played since vanilla. So I took my wallet and went away.

In case anyone is wondering, I was given 7 free days.
We're not "nerfing blindly." Keep in mind that, thebuff can be disabled. So if you and your Raid choose to do so, you can take on the encounter without it.

We also explained our thought processes in the original announcement blog about the buff [url="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/4326384/Dragon_Soul_Difficulty_Changes-1_18_2012"]here[/url].

For those of you who raided in Firelands and/or Icecrown you’re no doubt aware that as time goes on we want to keep people progressing by adjusting the difficulty. For any number of reasons a group may be having difficulty on a specific encounter each week, and our intent in adjusting the content is to ensure the ability to keep progressing, enjoying the content, and gearing up. With Icecrown we progressively buffed the players, and while this slow progression (and ability to opt-out of the buff) were both beneficial, it led to an expectation of your characters power, and once you left the raid you could certainly feel less effective. For Firelands we attempted to fix that by nerfing the content instead of buffing players, but we nerfed the content difficulty all at one time, which was counterproductive for players who really didn’t need as severe a change as we made. With Dragon Soul we’re attempting to do the best of both by having a progressive nerf to the content, keeping player power constant while providing small increases in assistance over a long period of time, as well as allowing players to opt-out of the assistance by speaking to Lord Afrasastrasz.



*Edited "debuff" to properly read "buff"


It's still dumb. There's no point to playing or raiding in this game and trying to progress if you're just going to keep erasing the difficulty when a tier has only been out a short time. It's stupid. I want to have fun raiding difficult content, not have loot handed to me. But no, that's not what the bad and casual players want. We can't have a place in Blizzard games for people who actually want to continue trying difficult things.
02/22/2012 10:34 AMPosted by Blackgoddess
We're not "nerfing blindly." Keep in mind that, the debuff can be disabled. So if you and your Raid choose to do so, you can take on the encounter without it.


Then why not do what many have asked for and add an achievement of feat of strength for doing it without the debuff?


So, clear Heroic DS with buff. Gear players with buff. Go back and clear without buff and get something special? I'm confused... How is this not stupid?
02/22/2012 10:34 AMPosted by Blackgoddess
We're not "nerfing blindly." Keep in mind that, the debuff can be disabled. So if you and your Raid choose to do so, you can take on the encounter without it.


Then why not do what many have asked for and add an achievement of feat of strength for doing it without the debuff?

^^that
02/22/2012 10:26 AMPosted by Holyunholy
Just turn the buff off if it bothers you that much. I for one am glad. This 10% boss debuff will ease DPS requirements thus making healing easier. Hopefully we can get to 6/8H by the timing of the next nerf (to 15%) and then go 8/8H


That seems contridictory to say you want dps requirements eased but then say your trying to beat the next round of nerfs. Its like you care about doing content before its considered nerfed like you want to take pride in doing a heroic mode, but you want it nerfed so you can do it this very moment.

How much sense does it make to say you enjoy this round of nerfs but you aren't looking forward to the next round of nerfs?
Stop crying about the nerf, if you haven't killed it yet then you need the additional 5%. If you don't want these nerfs, stop saying fights are too hard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIoZ1bsILF8
02/22/2012 10:09 AMPosted by Nethaera
We're not "nerfing blindly." Keep in mind that, thebuff can be disabled. So if you and your Raid choose to do so, you can take on the encounter without it


sure raiders could disable it... but why would they? this is like saying well you could disable hellscreams warsong in icecrown citadel but really who did? why would you even turn it off... 5% sure i can see why people would cancel that but 10%, and apparently that number is set to rise so... soon it will be 15% then 20% perhaps even 25% then what?

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