Prot OOM issues

Paladin
And yet you don't have sacred duty.

Your posts and spec are indicative that you don't understand a great deal of what's going on, and your conclusions on tanking aren't just wrong, they're wrong in the face of overwhelmingly detailed math which is very easy to find, done by people that Blizzard respects for their knowledge.


This.

Also, the namecalling is going to get you a forum action. Just a heads up, calling people morons is generally frowned upon by the mods.
Also,
Per EJ Sticky,
Protection Paladin 4.3 Overview -

Talent Specs
The baseline spec is 0/31/5: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
The last 5 points go into your choice of Pursuit of Justice, Reckoning, Rule of Law, and Hallowed Ground.

- also, halfway through the first post and heavily referencing Theck's math:

Don't Go Crazy
Do not reforge into Mastery mindlessly. Going beyond the block cap/full combat table coverage is a waste. Once you hit that 102.4% threshold you have to stop. Any additional block serves absolutely no purpose. Also once your reach 102.4% be careful to balance dodge/parry correctly. Dodge and parry occur before block on the hit table so if you end up having too much dodge/parry you push more block chances off the hit table. Once you are capped, mastery can be reforged into Avoidance.

Tail,
I will call someone a moron if I feel they're being one. *Gasp* if you want, but it's hardly a curse word, so I do not care. They say worse on daytime kids shows.

I will repeat myself a final time. The question I originally had was answered.
This can now be closed as I have no further need to reference it.
I have made my decisions of spec/gear with no information supporting any opposite stylings, simply blind regurgitations of those who came before them.
But according to even EJ, what I've done is fine. It's even specifically mentioned as being so.

I'm out.
02/22/2012 07:28 PMPosted by Pogzor
I will repeat myself a final time. The question I originally had was answered.


When we told you that you're OOMing using consecrate, and it's trash. Nobody decent uses it.

02/22/2012 07:28 PMPosted by Pogzor
I have made my decisions of spec/gear with no information supporting any opposite stylings, simply blind regurgitations of those who came before them.


Not knowing it's there isn't the same as it not existing. It exists in spades.
The EJ sticky, out of date as it is, still says that Sacred Duty is incredibly good. There is literally no reason to be a level 85 Prot Paladin and not have this talent.

I never said that "moron" was a curse word, merely that it's against the forum ToS and that people are routinely banned for directing the word at others.

Hopefully you were serious about your promise to not come back to these forums again, because all of your replies in this thread have been spectacularly defensive and unproductive.
I thanked those that had meaningful and productive imputs already. CTC and stam stacking = alot more damage taken per fight.


Which is meaningless and less useful than having more TTL and EH from Stamina.

02/22/2012 06:32 PMPosted by Pogzor
my judgements haven't been hitting like I've needed, and I've changed my rotation to better support that.


To which i say:

02/22/2012 06:41 PMPosted by Hooves
Judgment isn't based off spell hit. And it procs the mana return even if it misses.


02/22/2012 06:32 PMPosted by Pogzor
Also the spec you linked had persuit of justice 2/2 which is useless.


You have no clue how tanking works if you even remotely think this is true. Not only does it get you out of bad stuff faster, it also gets you to the boss sooner and is a big dps increase.

02/22/2012 06:32 PMPosted by Pogzor
You're ignorance to prot shows.


NO, YOUR ignorance to prot is showing and is only HIGHLIGHTED by the fact you linked to EJ. Seriously.

02/22/2012 06:49 PMPosted by Pogzor
How often do you need to be moving in fights while tanking? Windwalk procs already gives a speed boost, regardless 2/2 persuit isn't necessary considering where you could put the 2nd point for a dps/tps gain.


PoJ is a DPS gain. Show me ONE legitimate guide that does not say some form of speed increase either via talents or chants is not mandatory. All dps specs take a speed increase cause its a HUGE dps increase. Faster movement means getting in place sooner and doing more damage longer. This is especially true for melee.

It also has survival value in that you get out of bad stuff sooner.

You get out of bad stuff sooner and get back to morchock sooner. You get to an ooze sooner and back to Yor sooner. Lets reach a ping pong ball on Zon sooner if things go badly, away from hagraa sooner, to the add sooner and back to hagraa sooner. Im not gonna go thru all the times it was awesome in the rest of dragonsoul, t11 and t12.

PoJ is awesome talent and you are the one who does not understand prot if you think its bad.

hallowed ground is consistant dps if you keep consecration up and I was testing it.


Its 50 dps per point. Thats horrible.

Regardless that fact, 2/2 PoJ is still useless over any dps/tps gain you could get from even 1/2 eye for an eye.


No it isn't.
Regardless your spec choices, your progression in no way rivals mine, so you're HARDLY an expert in my eyes.


And your progression doesn't compare to thecks who has done the math showing that your wrong.

Not that progression is an indication of anything other than how well your raid gets along as a group. The main tank of Ensidia, Kungun, did not even know how the attack tables worked back when they were the number 1 raiding guild in the world.

02/22/2012 07:28 PMPosted by Pogzor
Per EJ Sticky,


EJ sucks for tanking they copy and pasted from Maintankadin and still got it wrong. Hell:


Other Resources

I of course did not get all this myself. Below is some source material I used as well as other resources that maybe prove valuable for the advancing tank.
• Combat Ratings at level 85 (Cataclysm)
• Maintankadin - View topic - Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x
• Maintankadin - View topic - 4.0 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide
• MMO-Champion - Paladin Cataclysm
• Paladin - Class - World of Warcraft


Credits

Thanks to Darkside, Malthrin, and emptyrepublic from whom I’ve taken the formatting.
Theck and the Maintankadin crew for their vast awesomeness.
Whitetooth for the always useful and important combat values.


This is the information from the source:

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=29317
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29589

Theck on what to do after the block cap:
http://sacredduty.net/2011/10/14/what-do-i-do-after-reaching-block-cap/



Tail,
I will call someone a moron if I feel they're being one. *Gasp* if you want, but it's hardly a curse word, so I do not care. They say worse on daytime kids shows.


Pog,
You did not read the ToS before posting here. You do not have the right to insult someone like that on this forum. People have and will continue to be banned for less.

I have made my decisions of spec/gear with no information supporting any opposite stylings, simply blind regurgitations of those who came before them.
But according to even EJ, what I've done is fine. It's even specifically mentioned as being so.


Making decisions without information is a good thing? And gives you the right to criticize a poster giving educated advise that has been empirically and theoretically proven? And to call one of our best talents worthless?
But guys! Elitist Jerks said it, so it must be true!
02/22/2012 06:32 PMPosted by Pogzor
By the way L2English


LULZ ME HAZ BAD ENGLISH YOUMADBRO?

You came here for help, with that attitude you aren't gonna get anywhere. Everyone here agrees that you hardly understand anything about tanking, yet you continue to puke your bad manner all over this thread. Everyone here has wasted time trying to help someone who doesn't want to be helped in the first place. Isn't that just a massive waste of time? You are here to seek for information, if you are gonna put yourself in a shell and get all butt hurt when someone tells you that you are wrong, you won't get very far here, nor would you in your life.

I blame the bad parenting from your parents.

Also, avoidance DOES make you spiky regardless. Stam, avoidance, block, you get more stam, you get less avoidance and block. With that being said, both block and avoidance did not make you any less spiky at all, they just provided physical damage reduction over all. Why? See below:

From a healer's perspective, in tier 11, without CTC cap, it doesn't matter if you take 3 full hits in 4 swings or 2 full hits in 4 swings, as long as you have a chance to take a big hit on your small health pool, you are a spiky tank. However, healer mana was a big deal back then, so gemming mastery was optimal. And tank damage was rarely spiky, it was more of a small constant grind that will drain your healer's mana away. Later when we moved onto tier 12, healers rarely had any mana problems, and spiky damage was being introduced into the expansion (not a whole lot, but they are definitely there) by the dev since healers were scaling up too quick, however, tanks still gemmed mastery because with tier 12, CTC cap was reachable, but not easily.

Then we moved onto tier 13, where healers simply won't oom, and the majority of the tanks are already CTC capped. Even if healers oom, it's always due to mechanics, tank damage never caused anyone to oom.

Now all of those are explained, gemming for avoidance at CTC cap ultimately is making you have less stam, and stam is the stat that makes you less spiky. Having the extra health to squeeze out an extra global for healers to land a heal on you, is much more important than having a better relationship with the RNG god.

Everything I said in a nutshell:
Tanks gemmed mastery in t11 because healer mana mattered
Tanks gemmed mastery in t12 because you can get to CTC cap to make your damage taken less spiky
Tanks in T13 can easily cap CTC, so gem stam to make you even less spiky because healer mana is so tier11.

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